Revelation; War on the saints

Originally posted by matrixportal
What if the one world religion is no religion? reminds me of John Lennon's imagine.

Be practical.
It would be very, very, hard to persuade all the peoples of the world to give up their religious beliefs.
Convincing them to link their religious beliefs together in some way is much more plausible. It belongs to the world of practical politics in a way that banning religion doesn't.
Therefore some kind of "combined religion" is a much more plausible prediction.

reply to post by DISRAELI


true, but wouldn't all the religions combined, by default, make "no religion"? all others would be gone to make room for the "one religion" because every other belief will be seen as heresy. just my opinion...

Originally posted by matrixportal
true, but wouldn't all the religions combined, by default, make "no religion"? all others would be gone to make room for the "one religion" because every other belief will be seen as heresy. just my opinion...

Not necessarily. It could be a kind of "federal" religion, which was united only at the "top", as it were. So Buddhists, Muslims, and even Christians could hold on to many of their different core beliefs while someone was claiming to be a figure belonging to each of them. That's one scenario.

In any case, your quotation of John Lennon led me to suppose you were thinking in terms of abolition of beliefs, and that's what I was answering.



[edit on 9-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

reply to post by DISRAELI


oh ok. yes you are right, i suppose abolition of religion entirely is a pretty impossible thing to do at this point anyway!

Originally posted by On the Edge

www.youtube.com...

The Jehova Witnesses aren't the only ones!

That link was very interesting and helpful, thank you.
But I think the Jehovah's Witnesses actually hold the eaxct opposite view, namely that the UN will ban religion altogether.

reply to post by Messiah_Tooth_Fairy


Obvious troll is obvious. And your name is whack lol. No one asked for your crappy opinion on the Bible, this is to discuss it's text. Not whether it is fictional or not.

Once again some interesting thoughts on the book of revelation, I doubt that I'll ever fully understand it until after the fact.

reply to post by Messiah_Tooth_Fairy


s914.photobucket.com... I don't subsribe to any religion, don't care about Jewish history nor give a lot of credence to Islam. I have never been a Catholic so i never needed to be a Protestant. I really liked the Vedas, they talked about things that didn't exist when i was a child....nuclear weapons, space flight, laser weapons. The thing that impressed me the most were the
creators" who could think things into existance. The point is that every place, time and people have a separate and distinct knowledge of God. Jesus taught his disciples how to resurrect the dead, Lazarus had been dead four days, he was decomposing when Jesus finally came to bring him back to life. Jesus sacrificed himself by remaining dead for nearly two thousand years. Adam and Eve were the children of God and commited the original sin, their combined life span was 1900+ years. As a footnote, they lived a life of remorse and sanctity that no living human can match.

i sorta enjoy your weaving of stories...to make your point...


tell me just Who - or Whom... dictates just who are the 'Elect' or the 'Saints'


it surely ain't the church or organized religion in the end times----because\ther is a great falling away..
IOW...
the lukewarm faithful turn their backs on the true followers
for both expediency and mindful rationalizations...


to be sure...we (the masses of Christians) will never 'know' just whom are the Saints or Elect --- that get creamed by a regime that sorta resembles the old NAZI heirarchy ...or closer to the present, a bunch of Øbama brown-shirts!


lets bring the issue to the Earthy present... instead of the lofty theology clouds you seem to dwell in !

Originally posted by St Udio
tell me just Who - or Whom... dictates just who are the 'Elect' or the 'Saints'

it surely ain't the church or organized religion in the end times----because\ther is a great falling away..
IOW...
the lukewarm faithful turn their backs on the true followers
for both expediency and mindful rationalizations...

Yes, I agree that there would be a falling away. That's exactly the impression I get from other passages, that some would "compromise" and others would not.

I suppose, in a sense, the "saints" would be self-defining, by comprising all those who did not fall away. It would certainly be impossible to identify this group with any visible "denomination".
Or, from a more Calvinist standpoint, God himself determines in advance who will not fall away (but the way my mind works is not comfortable with Calvinism)

Originally posted by Centurionx
Once again some interesting thoughts on the book of revelation, I doubt that I'll ever fully understand it until after the fact.

Thank you for that comment.
I don't suppose any of us will quite understand all the details;
but the main point is probably that we should get out of the book both the warnings (to be alert) and the sense of encouragement that we're supposed to get out of it.

Originally posted by debris765nju
Jesus taught his disciples how to resurrect the dead,
Lazarus had been dead four days, he was decomposing when Jesus finally came to bring him back to life.
Jesus sacrificed himself by remaining dead for nearly two thousand years.

I must query some of your statements.
1) Jesus showed his disciples that it was possible in the power of God; there is no evidence that they ever learned to do it for themselves. That was not the point.
2) It's been suggested that Lazarus was already raised when Jesus summoned him from the tomb, so that he would not have been decomposing for four days.
3) "Three days" is the gospel statement. i don't know where you get two thousand years from.

reply to post by DISRAELI

Gospel of John King James version
14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. Did you watch the video link? I believe that it fulfills Jesus' prophecy about causing his "temple" to be raised up. A day with God is a thousand years of man. Did you know that if the essence of Christ was not recovered the Way to Heaven would have remained lost?

Originally posted by debris765nju
Did you watch the video link? I believe that it fulfills Jesus' prophecy about causing his "temple" to be raised up... Did you know that if the essence of Christ was not recovered the Way to Heaven would have remained lost?

The first time I watched the link, I could not see what you were getting at.
I think I can see it now, but I'm not sure if you're serious.

I gather this is a picture of a stone formation which looks vaguely like the conventional understanding of the face of Jesus. At least vaguely like a man with a beard, which is usually enough for this kind of trivial identification.

And the claim is that being able to identify this image amounts to some kind of "resurrection" for Jesus?
Not just that, but that THIS is the resurrection which makes it possible to recover the way to heaven?

Are you serious in making this suggestion, or just pulling my leg?
If you're serious, then I'm puzzled to know
a) where you get it from
b) how it sits with your previous claim to have no religion.

It's easy enough to refute in New testament terms.
Jesus is described in the gospels as appearing after he has been raised.
And in the rest of the New Testament, especially in Paul and even in Revelation, he is depicted as one who has already been raised.
That was the saving event. End of story.


[edit on 10-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

Originally posted by St Udio
...or closer to the present, a bunch of Øbama brown-shirts!

lets bring the issue to the Earthy present... instead of the lofty theology clouds you seem to dwell in !

I take it for granted that the antichrist would be someone claiming to be the returned Christ- this being what the word means.
Is this what you mean by "lofty theology"?

Do you see the Antichrist as a purely political figure? E.g. an Obama?

reply to post by DISRAELI


the 'lofty' phrase is directly pointed to the use of abstract notions instead of literal interpretations...such as: the body of followers is become the 'spiritualized' Temple...instead of a literal, masonary construction fashioned by specially selected craftsmen under the supervision of the Sanhedrin & such authorities in Judiasm


i suggest the 1st beast, declaring himself above GØD, will be a combination Philanthropest/Economist/Lawyer-Politician

because its the 2nd beast from the soil that boosts the 1st beast to world-class adoration, power... after the mortal wound was healed... the 1st beast would therefore not have any military association or connections
until attaining the 'kingship' of the 10 national bloc empire.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by St Udio]

reply to post by DISRAELI

I now attach a link to the more reent thread on the first chapter of Revelation, which sets the tone for the whole book;
War on the Saints

I do NOT want to get into the middle of the current discussion, but I have to ask. Do you think that the answer would be in one place? DO you think that the path would be "a place where everyone can follow"? The "book", any book is for the "reader" nothing more...nothing less.

Acknowledging your place in your own history is better than ANY book. Past or Present. Our paths will cross and differ and even be at war. Do you really think that OUR creators word was meant for mere man? That looking beyond, and not literal would not suffice?

We would not have the "easy" to accept book unless people thought it was meant for them. We cannot "now" explain to society that this is a "members" ONLY book. We fight, debate and get angry with each other over something that cannot be understood by most.

This is an advanced class.

Peace, NRE.

Response to NoRegretsEver

Thank you for those comments. Actually the real point, from the perspective of "believers", is not the book itself but the source of the book.
The basic premise of Biblical teachng is that the Creator God is communicating with individuals and thus through those individuals communicating with the world at large. The book itself is just the record of all this. The act of communication is what matters.
Do we think it was meant for "mere man"? Well, if someone comes up to us and addresses us by name, we naturally assume that what he says is meant for our understanding.
The drift of your message isn't quite clear, but maybe that's part of the message; you seem to be suggesting, if I understand you correctly, that the "real" message of the Bible is going to be in esoteric meanings that only a select few will be able to understand.
If so, I reject that claim. The Creator God who professes to speak in the Bible says (in various ways) that he is addressing the world at large and wants the world at large to understand him. I take him at his word.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by DISRAELI

 

I now attach a link to the more reent thread on the first chapter of Revelation, which sets the tone for the whole book;
Fear Not

I've run out of editing time on the attached post, and I've only just noticed that I gave the wrong title to the linked thread which I now correct.
I wasn't really intending to link this thread back to itself.

Who is the beast in the bible?

It is modern christian church with all its deficiencies and double morals and "faith is everything" concept. Just like Jesus told Swedenborg. Christianity will be wiped out completely at Judgment. And the people with the mark of the beast is those people who still believe in "faith is everything". Actually faith is only a foundation for christian cultivation in daily life. Becoming a better and better person in real life is the essence of cultivation.

Who is the "great red dragon" in Revelation cptr?

It is the Chinese Communist Party.

Who are the saints, the horsemen and the 144 000 chosen ones of Revelation?

They are the disciples following the Son of Man in his battle of other dimensions against evil.

Who is the Son of Man in the bible? It is Elijah as is said in the bible he will come before the Lord´s judgment and spread his teachings across the world to save parts of mankind.

Who is Elijah in our modern world? Li Hongzhi - founder of Falun Dafa(a unique self-cultivation method of body and soul based on Truthfulnes-Compasion-Forbearance in everyday life) - all his 100 million Chinese disciples are persecuted by the CCP since July 20th 1999.

Who foretold the evil persecution beginning in July 1999? Nostradamus(and Edgar Cayce).

How long would the Armageddon battle between good and evil of other dimensions last before reaching this dimension? 20 years according to Nostradamus.

What would follow? Seven years of suffering for the remnants of the good part of mankind. See the irony of the start date of the persecution on the 20th of July(20/7 - equals 20 and 7 years)?..


The bible can be understood in a completely different manner once one drops the scholarly outlook of modern times. Actually more and more people can see modern christianity for what it really is - a corrupted religion that must be wiped out by higher powers. Only the fact that they worship their God being nailed to a cross is an outrage to all Gods.