New Internet? Explain this one to me.

People keep talking about the public may lose most if not all of the Internet. All those people are talking about so what they will just make a new Internet. I ask how. Are you going to run your own wires from house to house? If TPTB want the Internet for them selfs there is little we can do about it after the fact. It has to be stopped before. There will not be a new Internet if they take it from us. Any type of network would have to use their phone lines and any wireless system could be easily jammed and traced. So tell me how we could build a new Internet if we lost the one we have now. If they want it bad enough then we will lose it for good if we let it happen. Now I want all these people that are talking about building a new Internet to tell me how they can do that with out using the the network that is in place now as a bases for it. I just do not see people running all new wire all over the US.

don't worry when the time comes there will be always somebody with interesting ideas and new technologies, even if they take away our internet and provide a government supported internet there will be ways to bypass all that bullshat

we are already researching into p2p wireless networking and long rang wireless peering believe me there are new fresh ideas.

reply to post by aspx



Wireless? If they want to all they have to do is flag it as an illegal transmitter and the FCC takes the equeiment and you go to jail.

We have to stop this BEFORE it happens. After it happens there will be no RESET button for the Internet.


[edit on 8/7/2010 by fixer1967]

You can't do it because the internet is our bread and circuses. You take it away, and the people revolt.

reply to post by Gorman91


Revolt after the fact maybe too little to late. We lose more and more every day and there has been no revolt yet. I do not think that doing anything after the fact is going to help much. Can we stop this before it is too late?

news.yahoo.com...


I see things like this and I wonder just how much longer will we havet the Internet or at least the Internet we know and love. I fear the day are numbered for the Internet as we know it.

reply to post by fixer1967


no, you cannot stop it. Because revolution is not the optimal course of action. Revolution only happens when there is nothing else to do. Currently, I am happy and productive and do not feel any need to revolt. Though I am angry and have a barbarian within telling me to do horrible things, at the end of the day I am doing well and fine and have no limits. I have no reason to revolt.

If it makes any of you feel better, then this is a pretty good read. Basically, its about how regulatory commissions relaxing price caps to local phone companies. This was so that they could charge you more in the guise of building a large fiber optic network for different states. This would have had the US lead the world in the broadband revolution, before anyone really knew what broadband was.

It also proposes that DSL doesn't count because it A) isn't fast enough and B) goes over the same copper wiring that was already there in the first place.

As far as building a new internet is concerned. Here is an old CNN Story about local/city governments that started building their own fiber optic networks and leasing the rest to consumers or other operators, because it was much, much cheaper for them to do so than it was to have a TelCo build one for them. It also provided a possible new revenue to pay for the network in a few short years.

So it is possible. The problem is that lawmakers look at ISP's as the gatekeepers to these "tubes" that according to the ISP's are filling to capacity and they can't afford to manage the networks that they were supposed to have already upgraded back in the 1990's when they could legally price gouge consumers (us).

I could go on and on about Net Neutrality, but I digress. You guys can figure most of this out for yourselves.

Originally posted by fixer1967
reply to post by aspx

 

Wireless? If they want to all they have to do is flag it as an illegal transmitter and the FCC takes the equeiment and you go to jail.

We have to stop this BEFORE it happens. After it happens there will be no RESET button for the Internet.

The frequency spectrum that wireless routers use is unlicensed by the FCC. And believe it or not, the FCC has been pretty much against ISP's wanting Net Neutrality. Weird, eh?

haha the internet will never be shut down unless there are no longer electrical plants. It is too much of a controlling power to be shut down.

[edit on 7-8-2010 by jvm222]

there are already like 3 threads on this.

from what i remember the conclusions were

RLAN (Packet Radio)
Foreign Dialup/BBS (phoneline)
and Darknet's. (useing current infrastructure) its still up in the air how well darknets will work if we are shut out at isp level.


theres a network of darknets called Freenet you should check out.

This is a goog thread. We more people to come together on this problem.

We can do it

Originally posted by LurkerMan
there are already like 3 threads on this.

from what i remember the conclusions were

RLAN (Packet Radio)
Foreign Dialup/BBS (phoneline)
and Darknet's. (useing current infrastructure) its still up in the air how well darknets will work if we are shut out at isp level.


theres a network of darknets called Freenet you should check out.

The question shouldn't be what hardware to use to create an alternate vast network. The question should be how to use the existing infrastructure to accomplish this IMO.

Such as a peer-to-peer darknet using similar vLAN technology sort of like how Hamachi from LogMeIn works.

reply to post by Zaxxon


somebody in the other thread said you still need a service provider for the darknets to work unless they are on your node.

Originally posted by LurkerMan
reply to post by Zaxxon

 

somebody in the other thread said you still need a service provider for the darknets to work unless they are on your node.

That's absolutely right. As I said "The question should be how to use the existing infrastructure to accomplish this IMO."

You basically want to:
1) encrypt traffic at protocol level/tunneling
2) operate on a peer-to-peer, decentralized network
3) use software through-out the darknet that listens/transmits standard ports while using standard protocols (ie. port 80 for web, port 25 for email, 21 for telnet, etc.) or any port that you define for that matter, so that even if ISP's start blocking/throttling specific protocols on specific ports, you may still use it.

You're forgetting something important. This is caused by a treaty called ACTA. It's being discussed this monday in DC at the White House Convention Center. This will change the internet completely as well as your life. If you have one tiny little file that is copyrighted, a jpg, an mp3, movie, even a book that was obtained without payment you have 3 strikes before imprisionment. This also effects forums such as this one, either they will be removed or highly monitored. We won't be able to speak free. Email will be a dollar. Any free software will be illegal to own. You also won't be able to obtain goods like medicines as easily either. Bordergaurds, police, airport security and such can look at your computers for the files. If you have them like i said 3 strikes no internet and off to prison.

I think you are right on, and I wonder what Skeptic OverLord could share with us after his visit to washington last year, what were the followups and just how close are we to loosing the Internet we all know now?

I have a connective thread to this one, or at least there could be some relevance.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's an interesting subject and I wish that I could add something useful but my networking knowledge is limited.

I would say however that the Internet in the form that we rely on so much now has only been around since about 1992, I still remember getting my first 28k modem.
In the thousands of years before that people still found a way to spread information, form political groups, topple dictators, discover politicians lies, meet each other, discuss government conspiracies and generally get on with their lives.

I'm often amazed that when I was born in 1978 my parents didn't even have a telephone line in the house, and mobile telephones seemed like some kind of futuristic dream.

The government may well try to take away the Internet as a form of mass communication, but people will always find another way to get to the truth.

Frighten the C-level management of these Internet providers with bottomline professional death, and watch them sit at your feet like puppies. Wall Street is the opening in the armor when it comes to all the threats that exist on this earth. Target the publicly traded, publicly vulnerable companies that are bringing the problems - through organized boycotts and other, more immediate, structural devastations - and the others will learn to be happy being good community members. These last couple decades have produced executives that don't know how it feels to lose. That's unhealthy for this society. Some targeted loss seems to be in order, and on a distinctly personal/professional level in most cases.

If you're actually willing to expend the necessary effort, this is a war that can be won.