James Carrion - "Announcing The Center for UFO Truth"

Originally posted by cripmeister
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

How can it be that those UFO’s where already seen far, far before the time that even the United States saw the light of day and therefore those intelligence communities of where you speak did not even exist?

The UFO subject didn't exist back then, it came to be after WWII.

I do not agree with you here, but if that is your point of view I will respect that.

Originally posted by cripmeister
I wonder what happened to his Skinwalker Ranch exposé? I really wanted to read that

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Hi, suggest you might give a read of George Knapps written articles on it.

Decoy

reply to post by easynow


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Hi OP. Suggest we all give Carrion an extended kick in the ass after been thrown down then out of MUFON, toward his new journey.

He's nothing much to offer and after slap-sticking the many MUFON thorough investigated Witnesses, he's no place in UFO Investigative activity. His new site and plundering of things--ufo, tells me a least, Carrion wants some spotlight back.

I feel, the best UFO Researchers can do to rid this charming cist on our ass, may be to ignore anything Carrion mentions. Forget about it (meaning Carrion). Carrion = MOVE-ON.


Decoy

reply to post by easynow


---

Hi OP. Suggest we all give Carrion an extended kick in the ass after been thrown down then out of MUFON, toward his new journey.

He's nothing much to offer and after slap-sticking the many MUFON thorough investigated Witnesses, he's no place in UFO Investigative activity. His new site and plundering of things--ufo, tells me a least, Carrion wants some spotlight back.

I feel, the best UFO Researchers can do to rid this charming cist on our ass, may be to ignore anything Carrion mentions. Forget about it (meaning Carrion). Carrion = MOVE-ON.


Decoy

reply to post by easynow


Depressing!

In searching for the truth this man has decided to find out if the government is lying and in effect has taken a tangent off to the left and into irrelevant territory?

A bold and subjective statement I think not.

Having seen UFO’s and experienced some other “oddities” this organizations objective is not the issue and will not further the cause for proving the extraterrestrial hypothesis.

I do not think we need a new organisation to form that will try to ascertain the depth of government lies. Deductive reasoning tells me that if me, a total one man and his dog (with wife and daughters) can see and feel these things in the sky then it would stand to reason that government with all their highly intelligent members and vastly expensive monitoring infrastructures and systems over many decades will have determined long ago that we are being visited by people not from this world.

Fair to say it is obvious they are lying to us all? The only silver lining is at least I or my loved ones do not need proof from a third party as here is a quote “Dad... That thing was not human!” - 7th of May this year.

I was hoping to enjoy the visitation phenomenon being common knowledge among those that think they are watching the news when they sit down to watch the news, I should have known better (shrug).

Here is a hot tip, get outside on a starry night and meditate on your ajna chakra (third eye), do not worry about cameras or proving to others or worry about getting anally probed because that is all nonsense and a part of the control game much like the vatican of old said do not masturbate or the devil will eat you.

Just prove it to yourself - they will show you but you must meet them halfway and it worked for me!

reply to post by Decoy

Hi OP. Suggest we all give Carrion an extended kick in the ass after been thrown down then out of MUFON, toward his new journey.

He's nothing much to offer and after slap-sticking the many MUFON thorough investigated Witnesses, he's no place in UFO Investigative activity. His new site and plundering of things--ufo, tells me a least, Carrion wants some spotlight back.

I feel, the best UFO Researchers can do to rid this charming cist on our ass, may be to ignore anything Carrion mentions. Forget about it (meaning Carrion). Carrion = MOVE-ON.

You seem a bit defensive there Decoy. Are you afraid Carrion might poke a hole in the hot air balloon called UFOlogy?

[edit on 30-6-2010 by cripmeister]

for anyone interested , Carrion rebukes the critics of the "Center for UFO Truth" mission objective in his latest blog posting.

Now some have questioned why the focus of the Center for UFO Truth is so narrow and that trying to prove the human deception theory is itself inherently a preconceived belief. I have four words to answer that – “Show me the evidence”. In science you can propose whatever theory you would like as long as you are willing to back it up with evidence. When Copernicus proposed that the Earth was not the center of the Universe, he didn’t have to first explain celestial mechanics of the wider universe. He focused on one question – does the earth revolve around the sun or not – simple and unambiguous.

That is exactly what the Center for UFO Truth is focused on – a simple and unambiguous theory of human deception in the early days of UFOs. If CUT can unequivocally prove that United States and its allies hijacked the UFO theme for Cold War purposes and that Kenneth Arnold’s sighting and Roswell were part of this deception, through authenticated documents, rather than anecdotal evidence, then critical thinkers should take notice. If you are a staunch believer, don’t worry, CUT will not present evidence at your pulpit anyway.

Why are the early days of UFOs so important? Well it is simple - these early UFO events are the sacred cows of Ufology. If they are proven to be deceptions, then all UFO data collected to the modern day needs to examined through a different set of lenses. Critical thinkers will consider putting on a different pair of glasses. Believers will not think anything is wrong with their vision and will look the other way.

If CUT can not substantiate its theory, then it no longer remains a viable theory and can be discarded.

followthemagicthread.blogspot.com...

some alternate viewpoints from Joe Capp

I just read James Carrion's (MUFON's ex- "International Director") statement of purpose on his blog site, "Center for UFO Truth". If his opening statement is any indication of what UFO truth he is referring to we're in for a one sided ride.

No James, you are dead wrong, the fault of today's UFO state of affairs belongs at the seat of our great but fragile minds the scientists. Most of the extreme beliefs are here because there is a vacuum in science verses experience on these topics.

ufomedia.blogspot.com...

reply to post by easynow


Easynow.....

Just a quick comment because I'm s'posed to be working..... yeah I know.....I should be strong & switch off ATS!!

Anyway.....

I read through that Carrion positioning / briefing doc a couple of times.

That combined with the comments I'm presently quickly scanning.....

I'm finding this thing a little confusing!

I'm usually reasonably OK at understanding what's going on, so I reckon Collier's position might be confusing from the beginning.

I think my initial use of the word "awkward" still sums up my view of Collier's approach to this.

I'll read all this again in more detail later on today.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by easynow


People are upset because he's taking a stab at the sacred cows of UFOlogy. But sometimes you have to "kill your darlings" to get anywhere.

reply to post by spacevisitor

I really wonder why that is.

good question my friend and i can only make guesses like this one,

in my opinion, the reason Carrion is choosing this new direction is he got burnt out from all the hoaxes and lost in all the dis-info and because of that he's now throwing the baby out with the bath water.
post link

reply to post by SmokeJaguar67

Depressing!

In searching for the truth this man has decided to find out if the government is lying and in effect has taken a tangent off to the left and into irrelevant territory?

would we be surprised if he found some evidence the government orchestrated and faked some UFO reports ? i wouldn't be and that certainly wouldn't prove all reports are government propaganda hoaxes.

Carrion is crying about the "three ring circus" of ufology and some people believe this approach will be adding a fourth ring to the mix.

Oh yes, and then there is the "three ring circus" of UFOlogy, to which he seems determined to add a fourth ring to because he considers his efforts better than what is going on in the other 3, even though to everyone looking on it is basically the same.
thedebrisfield.blogspot.com...

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

I'm finding this thing a little confusing!

i'm wondering if Carrion is finding "this thing" confusing yet ? LOL






reply to post by cripmeister

People are upset because he's taking a stab at the sacred cows of UFOlogy. But sometimes you have to "kill your darlings" to get anywhere.

kill the darlings ?

so far he hasn't got diddly squat to take a stab with let alone "kill" something. as of right now, it's all hot air and might not ever go "anywhere" :bnghd:






and sometimes the hunters become the hunted ?

Blasphemy will get you Stoned

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b61057e69b26.jpg[/atsimg]

www.theufochronicles.com...

[edit on 1-7-2010 by easynow]

This is total bull#.

In Timothy Goods Above Top Secret book he tells of foia docs that pose the very same question about the Russians as to why there is a total blackout of UFO coverage in country, and why they are not using this as part of a overall dis-info campain... Also for the Gov did it all theory has to stand up to why 1000s of reports was made by its own defense personnel and has caused the deaths/disappearances of a handful of pilots. I find it hard to believe that the US is behind a 60 year old worldwide opp to fake UFOs for purposes yet undisclosed with total perfect secrecy!

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Niccawhois]

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Niccawhois]

reply to post by Niccawhois


If you don't understand the difference between the UFO subject and UFO sightings then I guess it doesn't make sense

Originally posted by cripmeister
reply to post by Niccawhois

 

If you don't understand the difference between the UFO subject and UFO sightings then I guess it doesn't make sense

what did Niccawhois say that made you think he doesn't understand the "difference" ?

i don't see any reason to think that based on what he wrote.







[edit on 3-7-2010 by easynow]

reply to post by easynow


Easynow.....

i'm wondering if Carrion is finding "this thing" confusing yet ? LOL

Easynow.....

Possibly.....maybe probably!

I think it's really a function of the "frames of reference" for Carrion's investigation being flawed in the first instance.

I think the most we can hope for is that in doing this, Carrion opens up more cans of worms than he places lids on.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


maybe he will open some more cans up and i have to admit if he was trying to find evidence that the government has faked and lied about stuff to discredit real ufo reports and witnesses i would be interested then.

an example of that might be the flares that were deployed in the Phoenix lights case after the 8:00 pm sighting to discredit the the whole story. now that kind of government fakery i can definitely believe in. anyone claiming all ufo reports/cases and sightings were created by the Government is insane.

reply to post by easynow


Easynow…..

maybe he will open some more cans up and i have to admit if he was trying to find evidence that the government has faked and lied about stuff to discredit real ufo reports and witnesses i would be interested then.

One can only hope Collier will stay alert & sensitive to “both sides of the coin” during his investigations.

an example of that might be the flares that were deployed in the Phoenix lights case after the 8:00 pm sighting to discredit the the whole story.

Unfortunately that obfuscation worked very well. Even on ATS, I see people thinking the flares comprised the major portion of the sightings.

now that kind of government fakery i can definitely believe in.

Yes…..unequivocally.

anyone claiming all ufo reports/cases and sightings were created by the Government is insane.

I agree…..that does not make sense.

Kind regards
Maybe…maybe not

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


you keep spelling Carrions name wrong, it's not Collier ,

you must be thinking of Alex Collier

Unfortunately that obfuscation worked very well. Even on ATS, I see people thinking the flares comprised the major portion of the sightings.

yes it seems it did work because adding the flares or supposed flares into the mix created doubt in the publics mind. i believe that isn't the first time the military has done something like that and i'm betting it won't be the last.

i recommend watching the the Phoenix Lights documentary with Lynne Kitei because it shows other patterns or groups of lights that were also seen that night and Jim Dilettoso examines the 10 pm video and if his analysis is legit the flare explanation is imo questionable.





the Hudson Valley mass sighting is another case i suspect the military created a cover story to confuse the public. there can be no doubt the goverment has faked some sightings for dis-info counter intelligence against real ufo incidents and it's too bad Carrion isn't persuing that angle.



[edit on 4-7-2010 by easynow]

reply to post by easynow


Easynow.....

you keep spelling Carrions name wrong, it's not Collier

DOH! ..... BIG face palm!

I will look at that video.....many thanks!

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

I really wonder why that is.

good question my friend and i can only make guesses like this one,

in my opinion, the reason Carrion is choosing this new direction is he got burnt out from all the hoaxes and lost in all the dis-info and because of that he's now throwing the baby out with the bath water.
post link

Hi easynow, here are my thoughts about it.

The UFO/UAP/ET subject is unfortunately confronted with hoaxes and disinformation, but thats all part of the debunking game.

But that cannot be [in my opinion] the real reason for why Carrion, who did study the phenomenon for so long, did read and investigated so many cases, who was able as former Director for Mufon to meet and speak with so many people and investigators regarding that subject suddenly gets the impression that it could be possible “that the subject of ufo's was "purposely created by the United States and its allies as part of a cold war operation and perpetuated to this day for national security reasons".

And the reason for why I think that is simply because the subject of strange flying objects which we call UFO's/UAP's today, is not only a subject from the last decades, it seems very clear [at least to me] that this subject, those strange flying objects which were called Flying Dragons/Metallic Discs/Ezekiel's Wheel/glowing wheels/great silver shields back then are seen as long as there are humans here on earth.

And there is a lot of impressive information that supports that claim in my opinion.

All Cases: Sorted by Oldest First.

www.ufoevidence.org...

Threads of Skyfloating.

Of Emperors and Sky Gods

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Of Flying Dragons and Metallic Discs

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Of Ancient Wars and Spacecraft

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Therefore, it looks more to me as if James Carrion has changed his agenda dramatically, and that he has become a member of those who are doing their upmost best to let anyone believe for decades now that those UFO’s/UAP’s/Flying Dragons/Metallic Discs/Ezekiel's Wheel/glowing wheels/great silver shields, has definitely nothing to do or has no connection at all with “highly intelligent extraterrestrial non human beings” but that they are “purposely created by the United States and its allies as part of a cold war operation and perpetuated to this day for national security reasons".

My two euro-cents my friend.

reply to post by spacevisitor

The UFO/UAP/ET subject is unfortunately confronted with hoaxes and disinformation, but thats all part of the debunking game.

yes it is unfortunate ufology has been corrupted with hoaxes and dis-info and i always wonder (but won't ever know) if all that was never introduced what the current state of the subject would be now.

the hoax subject is complicated and there are many different reasons why people create them but it's obvious the governments anti-ufo debunking propaganda being injected into society for decades is partially to blame for this extrapolated mindset. as you know this makes it more difficult for main stream science to accept the phenomena as something real and worthy of study.

By far the most powerful weapon in the UFO counter-intelligence arsenal is the ufologists themselves. A former CI officer once remarked to me about a prominent New York City ufologist, "If he didn't exist, we'd have to invent him." There is nothing that counterintelligence operators appreciate more than a gullible ufologist i.e. born again lesbian lizards from Antares, seven-foot alien cockroaches with hyperactive libidos, etc. The result is that the credibility of the entire UFO research community is debased. Little wonder that the press treats the subject as a joke. That's what the CI people work so hard to accomplish. The "aliens are eating us" crowd is the answer to the CI prayers.

ftp.fortunaty.net...

But that cannot be [in my opinion] the real reason for why Carrion, who did study the phenomenon for so long

i can't really say with any certainty why Carrion has chosen this new direction but after reading what he said on his blog page titled "Goodbye Ufology, Hello Truth" i got the feeling he was now disgruntled, frustrated and couldn't distinguish a real signal from the fake ones anymore. (maybe he never could)

I began to question whether or not ANY of the data sitting in any UFO archive can be relied on.
followthemagicthread.blogspot.com...

And there is a lot of impressive information that supports that claim in my opinion.

yes i agree my friend and i am fascinated with these older ufo reports (i am currently taking a closer look at them) but i caution you to investigate each one as best you can because even though the majority of these older cases are probably legit, there are a few that are imo questionable. thank you for your thoughts on this matter and the links, i will certainly check it out.

this UFO 'battle' over Nuremberg, Germany in 1561 is certainly interesting and if it's a real sighting (i think it is) it further proves Carrion's new theory is silly.

At dawn of April 4, in the sky of Nuremberg (Germany), a lot of men and women saw a very alarming spectacle where various objects were involved, including balls "approximately 3 in the length, from time to time, four in a square, much remained insulated, and between these balls, one saw a number of crosses with the color of blood. Then one saw two large pipes, in which small and large pipes, were 3 balls, also four or more. All these elements started to fight one against the other." (Gazette of the town of Nuremberg).

The events lasted one hour and had such repercussions that an artist, Hans Glaser, drew a woodcut of it at the time. It describes two immense black cylinders launching many blue and black spheres, blood red crosses, and flying discs. They seem to fight a battle in the sky, it also seems that some of these spheres and objects have crashed outside the city.

www.ufoevidence.org...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c5da35497e65.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 4-7-2010 by easynow]