BP is facing RICO

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Maybe its just the little conspiracy theorist in me, but if the left hand is doing all this, what is the right hand doing? Maybe my original hypothesis that the gov is going to take over BP and make it the US's official oil provider is in the works? Only time will tell I guess.

YES !! Everyone read the whole article then look up info on RICO. I think this may have a good shot. The best hope is that BP gets bankrupt. They have Billions and Billions of dollars they could be using to fix this situation the right way... if there were only forced to do that.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
YES !! Everyone read the whole article then look up info on RICO. I think this may have a good shot. The best hope is that BP gets bankrupt. They have Billions and Billions of dollars they could be using to fix this situation the right way... if there were only forced to do that.

I agree the BP has to pay, but if you read the whole article then you would have seen that the other major oil companies have a chance of being added on to the civil RICO lawsuit. Again I ask, if the left hand is doing this, what is the right hand doing?

Big Oil is a scam and every single one of them needs to busted up into tiny pieces that operate on a regional basis and are beholden to the people and the region they serve. They will be more responsible, more responsive, more reliable, and in the end, wildly profitable for a large number of people.

These big oil corporations enrich what, 5 or ten 10 wildly wealthy dudes and a few scraps for the frightened pension holders and stock holders?

Tear them to shreds. Let men drill for oil not creepy rich guys who think we are just "small people".

reply to post by mike_trivisonno


Yes, most big companies are scams and take advantage of the "little people" as Mr. Hayward has so eloquently put it but what is the right hand doing? Do you think that government will take over big oil and it will make it all better? If thats the case, I ask you if you have noticed one government entity that has been run by the government that isnt corrupt, bankrupt, or just a mess of red tape. If you dont believe that the government will take them over then I ask what do you think will happen after BP and the rest of the oil companies are taken out and ripped to shreds?

Dont get me wrong here, I want BP to pay. I live on the Gulf Coast of Florida. Ill never again see my gulf like I did growing up...ever. I never once wanted drilling in the gulf and still dont. But I also have a severe distrust for the government and their lack of action (remember, this is a CIVIL RICO lawsuit, not federal) and the fact that BP was made to put up its assets as insurance for the $20b tells me that there is something more going on then just a bungled cleaning up effort by the federal government and BP. Also, remember that both Bush and Obama both said that they wanted to open up drilling off of our coasts. So, in essence who is to say that after all of this is done and cap and trade passes (it most likely will after all of this), the government doesnt end up taking over this industry like so many others and open it up for drilling on our coasts. Remember "never let a crisis go to waste", as quoted from Rohm Emanuel, has basically been the mantra of this administration thus far. I have seen a pattern in the last couple of years and this is just starting to fit into it, for me at least.

reply to post by dizzie56


Big Corporations are tyrannical. All of these Big Oil corporations? Many of us have watched them form, merge, takeover, bubble, and arise almost mysteriously after the 1970s "oil shortage". It didn't used to be this way.

They all need to be broken back down into smaller corporations that are better able to function at regional level. It is painfully obvious that they are incapable of responding reasonably once they grow beyond a certain point. When you see creepy rich guys running the show, the damage has been done.

Like I said in another thread, if it was gold bars and not worthless crude oil spewing out of that hole, virtually every single resource available would be moved instantly to the site and every darn bit of it would be tracked down and recovered, by deadly force if needed.


[edit on 26-6-2010 by mike_trivisonno]

[edit on 26-6-2010 by mike_trivisonno]

Originally posted by mike_trivisonno
reply to post by dizzie56

 

Big Corporations are tyrannical.

Moved by profit yes, tyrannical, no. Remember, tyranny means that all power comes from one source and is oppressive. Big Oil has many sources, not only here in the US but abroad.

All of these Big Oil corporations?

Im not sure what you are asking here? If its in reference to the fact that the article I posted a link to is saying that it may tack on all the other big oil companies that are doing offshore drilling onto the civil RICO lawsuit, then yes, all the Big Oil corporations.

Many of us have watched them form, merge, takeover, bubble, and arise almost mysteriously after the 1970s "oil shortage". It didn't used to be this way.

They all need to be broken back down into smaller corporations that are better able to function at regional level. It is painfully obvious that they are incapable of responding reasonably once they grow beyond a certain point. When you see creepy rich guys running the show, the damage has been done.

Again with the creepy rich guys thing. I dont get it. Yes, BP is bungling the cleanup effort. Yes, the government is doing the same. You are saying that if you break them down now to smaller companies you then will get better results in the clean up effort? That doesnt make much sense. I would think that a smaller company wouldnt have the resources to even begin an operation like the massive effort that is still needed to clean up the gulf. In all honesty, BP has the funds but they are just not putting them to good use. Would a smaller company have the same funds? I doubt it. Also, remember that they are drilling beyond a level that has ever been done before. I dont agree with them trying to do so, but again would a smaller company have the resources or capital to even begin to tackle the clean up effort.

Like I said in another thread, if it was gold bars and not worthless crude oil spewing out of that hole, virtually every single resource available would be moved instantly to the site and every darn bit of it would be tracked down and recovered, by deadly force if needed.

Worthless crude oil? How can you explain that crude oil is worthless? Please enlighten me because I am under the belief that it is one of the main resources that governs the rate for our United States currency the dollar. Again I pose the theory that the government is just bidding its time to swoop in and look like the savior of mankind.

This situation reminds me of the AIG situation. AIG gets bailed out because of the housing industry screw up that was caused by the government in the first place. AIG is made up of several different companies and divisions and only a few were actually doing bad where as the rest were doing good and making a profit, although the profit didnt near as much as the other division had lost. The government swoops in and looks like a savior to mankind after it had hyped up the situation that the world would end if AIG wouldnt be bailed out. Then come the bonuses that were given out to company executives that actually did their jobs like they were contracted to do (made a profit) in the other divisions and were taxed for it. Finally AIG releases where the money had gone that they got from the bailout and the people cry foul because a hundred million was given out as bonuses to people that were contracted to get said bonuses based on performance (think football and a d-linemen making x amount of sacks and then he gets a bonus for making z amount of sacks). Again, the government swoops in like a savior and takes the bonuses back (highly unconstitional I might add, just read it).

The truth of the matter is that why the people were concentrating on the small $100million that was spread out between 73 people, the majority of the people didnt realize that AIG was being used as a shell company to pay off foreign and domestic banks in the BILLIONS.

I personally see this happening again, just under different circumstances. Oil rig explodes. BP cant fix it fast enough. But, unlike AIG, they are really big and have lots of resources so the government now has to take it slow with them and make their moves more indirect. The government isnt helping one damn bit in this effort, and in some cases, hindering it (remember the coast guard vessels not allowing clean up crews to go out into the Gulf from LA?). I believe that they are biding their time. Hell, look at the fact that the governments main PR team (celebrities) hasnt done a single thing to "raise awareness" as they love to coin the term, until now when Jimmy Buffet is said to be having a concert and its not even him throwing the concert, but the state of Alabama is paying him to do so.

www.ft.com...

All of this screams of the government wanting to take over another industry and Im not buying into it. Obama allready stopped the payout of dividends to stock holders (kinda like not paying the bonuses ya think). In all reality, if BP has so much money, why couldnt it pay out dividends to its stock holders. Its really just a drop in the bucket so to speak. Its cause Obama wants look like the good guy in this because people again got into an outrage over the small issue at hand.

Just watch, in 20 years we will have government run oil rigs and refineries on our very own shores that arent any better then the ones that are out there now. And in fact, I pose that they will less efficient and have more redtape (as the government always does) involved with them that our gas prices will continue to skyrocket. But lucky for us, the government is taking care of us right? Also, we would finally have our very own true oil to back our fiat currency. And its all because people are litteraly calling for the heads of these companies. That is always, always how it starts.

People need to stop not only looking at the trees but they also need to look at the forest in front of them. There is more to an issue than just the small things, the bigger picture is much more frightening.

reply to post by dizzie56


Big Oil corporations behave in a tyrannical fashion. They are certainly oppressive and their source of power comes from oil and the manipulation of its price.

The board of directors of BP is creepy rich people controlling a gigantic soulless machine that tyrannically generates profits at any cost. That is not business. That is not wealth. That is fraud.

Defending BP is akin to defending the person pushing a knife into your heart. Who cares what or where they are drilling. They had the resources to ensure that operations were done as safely as operations in low earth orbit. And God knows the environment they are operating in close enough to it. They failed. Because they don't care. Because we are small people. Creepy. Rich. People.

We certainly don't need corporations this large to drill holes in the ground to get worthless crude oil.

Crude oil is worthless because to get it you only have to drill holes and let it spew. You don't need a gigantic corporation to get it. And you don't have to drill in the middle of the ocean either.

Originally posted by mike_trivisonno
reply to post by dizzie56

 

Big Oil corporations behave in a tyrannical fashion. They are certainly oppressive and their source of power comes from oil and the manipulation of its price.

The board of directors of BP is creepy rich people controlling a gigantic soulless machine that tyrannically generates profits at any cost. That is not business. That is not wealth. That is fraud.

Defending BP is akin to defending the person pushing a knife into your heart. Who cares what or where they are drilling. They had the resources to ensure that operations were done as safely as operations in low earth orbit. And God knows the environment they are operating in close enough to it. They failed. Because they don't care. Because we are small people. Creepy. Rich. People.

We certainly don't need corporations this large to drill holes in the ground to get worthless crude oil.

Crude oil is worthless because to get it you only have to drill holes and let it spew. You don't need a gigantic corporation to get it. And you don't have to drill in the middle of the ocean either.

So because you can drill holes into the earth and get crude oil, its worthless? By that very assumption then the same argument that you posted above becomes invalid because you can drill holes into the ground to find gold. It makes no sense. Value is place on something because people want it. People want to fly, drive their cars, have products made of plastic, want their fruit delivered to them when its out of season and it has to come from another part of the world. Saying crude oil is worthless is beyond ignorant.

Im not defending BP in no way what so ever. Im just asking people to look at the bigger picture and the trend that has been happening over the years. We complain about something enough and the government comes into fix it themselves. I personally want BP to pay more because I believe that is the only way that they will do it better and by themselves and we wont have a government take over of another one of our industries.

As far as them being tyrranical I guess we will just have to agree to disagree because I see governments as being more tyrranical in the price fixing of oil then I do the companies. Not to say that the companies are at no fault by any means, just that the governments want em that way.

Also, the "low earth orbit" makes no sense what so ever. The pressures that they are getting under the sea is way more than the pressure at the height of the atmosphere...in fact it tends to run at the complete opposite ends of the spectrum. So, if they would make something that could only withstand pressures from low earth orbits they would have never even gotten the rig down there in the first place because it would have been crushed on the way down.

The suits allege that BP committed mail fraud, wire fraud and potentially other RICO predicate act violations when the company sought permits from the federal government for deepwater offshore drilling, knowing that it did not possess the technical expertise or equipment necessary to respond to an emergency such as the ongoing Deepwater disaster.

Yes!

BP is trying to PR and CYA themselves out of this disaster. The fed govt is trying to appear useful by investigating. But this civil lawsuit by private citizens could be the only way to hold BP accountable for present actions and make them etal think twice about future actions.

Re fed govt taking over BP. After 30 years of politicians trying to turn America into one gigantic bazaar, the current president, who will only try to deflect some of the worst results, would not do this.

Even as far back as Clinton, the privatization of govt involvement in oil production began.

In the Defense Authorization Act of 1996, the U.S. Department of Energy was directed to sell the assets of NPR-1. On February 5, 1998, the Department of Energy and Occidental Petroleum Corporation concluded the largest divestiture of federal property in the history of the U.S. government. The sale agreement completed a privatization process that began in 1995 when the Clinton Administration proposed selling Elk Hills. The divestment removed the federal government out of the business of producing oil and gas at Elk Hills. In May 1995 the Clinton Administration proposed placing the federally-owned Elk Hills Naval Petroleum Reserve on the market as part of its efforts to reduce the size of government and return inherently non-federal functions to the private sector. In February 1996, the Congress passed and the President signed the Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1996 containing authorization to proceed with the sale.

source

Until America undertakes a sensible energy policy, lessening its dependence on oil, the RICO act may be the only way for citizens to get relief. Even a big dog can't stand to be bothered by fleas....or in this case the "small people".

[edit on 26-6-2010 by desert]

Wow...RICO? Really? Seems like a stretch to me but I'm no lawyer. Maybe it was the quickest and easiest way for them to get this on the dockets in civil court, as the article said. Betcha it gets thrown out.

Also, the assurances BP gave MMS are pretty much just the standard, check off the box assurances that all the oil companies give.

In my review of a few of the BP PDFs that included the forms for both this disaster and their latest well in Alaska, this seemed obvious. In the case of the preliminary assessment for Macondo Well, there were some outdated materials, but I haven't seen the final so I don't know if they fixed it.

Also, all the oil companies sharing the very same Oil Spill Disaster Plan with their main expert to call in case of an oil spill being a marine biologist who has been dead for three or four years is a pretty dead giveaway of the kind of attention they don't pay to detail. That coupled with BP's abysmal safety record, which everyone by now should be fully aware of, doesn't tend to give one a warm fuzzy about this business in general.

In an industry as volatile and dangerous as this, you'd think safety would always be primary. But it sure doesn't appear to be.

Eeek...all I really wanted to say was good luck to them on RICO, but I don't think that's going to work.

[edit on 26-6-2010 by ~Lucidity]