How the Civil War Changed America

It has been argued, by myself and many others on ATS, that in 1861 the United States of America died.. with it, in it's fiery death, went the Constitution as well.

Today we live in a country where States are not identified as sovereign entities.. you not educated in school regarding the details of your own states Constitution, because this Government fears State Identity.. and in light of the new Arizona legislation that represents a small state standing up to the power and might of the Federal Government.. I believe we should reflect back on what happened the last time states unified against the beast that is the Federal Government. To start:

Some interesting facts regarding the Federal Government and the Civil War:

- After the civil war the South was dictated by Military Rule for 12 years.

- Lincoln (who many Presidents claim to idolize) is estimated to have arrested over 13,000 political prisoners without trial with the suspension of Habeas Corpus.

- Provided the Federal Government the first right to Conscription.

- Lead to the first income tax! Implemented by Lincoln during the war.

- Lead to the creation of the "Greenback" currency (Dollar)

- Created the first Federal Army

- This is the best one. When Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus, the Supreme Court shot the law down, stating it was blatantly Unconstitutional. Lincoln proceeded to "unofficially" Dissolve the Supreme Court by over-ruling Chief Justice Taney. This put into effect, essentially, a military dictatorship.

- The Civil War was actually the single deadliest war ever fought by Humans up to that point, and wouldn't be challenged until the first World War. 620,000 Americans died.

Now there is some question as to .. how Sovereign ARE the States exactly?

The Federal Government is made up BY the States.. we know this much, in fact, it was formed and funded by the original 13 states. We can deduce that the Federal Government does not and cannot "create" a state. As territories were designed, the political bodies in those territories had to negotiate their own Constitution, construct their own form of Government (it did not have to match the US model), had to meet population requirements and economical requirements. It is almost identical to the way a European nation tries to gain entry into the European Union. Almost to a T actually.

We also know that the Congress is a direct representation of the People of the States, and each represents a specific state. There is no representative of the Federal Government except for the Supreme Court, which the Govenrment it's self creates. The Executive branch, or President/Vice President, are elected directly by the States (not the people) ..

There is NO amendment, law, wording or suggestive phrase in the Constitution that high light secession .. it does not name it as illegal, the only things mentioned regarding subversive acts are that treasonous acts against ALL states are punishable by law.

So what was Lincolns excuse for the Civil War, for attacking the South?

They invented an ingenious sophism, which, if conceded, was followed by perfectly logical steps, through all the incidents, to the complete destruction of the Union. The sophism itself is, that any state of the Union may, consistently with the national Constitution, and therefore lawfully, and peacefully, withdraw from the Union, without the consent of the Union, or of any other state.

Lincoln accused the South of creating an "idea" that because the Constitution did not prohibit secession, if they left the Union without attacking other states, they could peacefully remove themselves from the Union.

Who was he ranting about?

THOMAS JEFFERSON -- This guy wrote the article that Lincoln quotes above, that he spoke at his Inaugural Speech.

[Jefferson] forthrightly held that where the national government exercised powers not specifically delegated to it, each state “has an equal right to judge . . . the mode and measure of redress.” . . . He was, he assured Madison, “confident in the good sense of the American people,” but if they did not rally round “the true principles of our federal compact,” he was “determined . . . to sever ourselves from the union we so much value rather than give up the rights of self-government . . . in which alone we see liberty, safety and happiness.”

Jefferson wrote his articles regarding State Rights and secession not for the Federal Government, or even for the Union as a whole perse, he actually wrote this specifically for Virginia.. he firmly believed that Virginia (and any state) had the right, if it felt the Federal Government over stepped it's boundaries, to leave the Union.

In the US Declaration of Independence, there is actually support for secession, it states that the United States is legally permitted to secede from Great Britain, based on the GOD Given right of Man to abolish their government.

Lincoln used many excuses before the Public and before Congress to prevent secession .. one such as this: He argued that in the Articles of Confederation (the first US Constitution .. which is not a legal document anymore, but he argued it anyways)

The Articles of this confederation shall be inviolably observed by every state, and the union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a congress of the united states, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every state.

Leaving out Article II

Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom and independence and every Power, Jurisdiction and right, which is not by this confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.

This war altered everything, every aspect of this country.. from the very way we thought, the way our economy was managed, the power of the Federal Government, how we should view State Rights, taxes, laws, even how we interperate the Constitution. And yet in the schools we are taught very little to nothing of the true background of the Civil War, we do not raise questions regarding state-rights.. we are taught it was about Slavery, and some minor economic squabbles.. over looking the vast array of crimes committed by the Union against the South, because the emotionally charged racial divides would make standing up for State Rights racist. You cannot deny the genius of it.

So we are gifted with a MASSIVE Federal Government, ever expanding, under every new administration new offices, new bureaus and agencies, hiring hundreds of thousands to regulate and control us. They rape our wallets and force us to accept their direction, they loot our coffers and give generously to the rich and wealthy who buy their seats. They give only to the working and poor enough to buy their loyalty and support, and take as much till the people grumble and complain. They distract us with corporate controlled media to direct our attention, while they commit high treason in plain sight. They piss on States Rights and call anyone who stands up against them insane, disillusion, backwards, uncivilized, and so forth.. and when a state stands up to them, without hesitation they will do everything to undo them.

So to my readers I hope I install a sense of pride in your State, and the true meaning of this Republic.. that in the face of Tyranny, however blatant or concealed, you will remember your individual sovereignty, and your states sovereignty.. that the Fed was created for and by the States to do your will, and you should not have to, in a truly free country, fear fiscal or legal retribution from the Federal Government.

Sources:

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.whitehouse.gov... (This source was not used, but while researching I looked at the US Governments official page on Lincoln.. quite disgusting, any Historian would cry Propaganda at first glance. I loved the last sentence on the page though.. "Magnanimity" .. it means "generous soul, greatness of mind" .. describing the man who ordered the "scorched earth" policy of burning every single building from Atlanta to the Atlantic ocean to the ground, looting, raping and pillaging for the soldiers.)
www.lewrockwell.com...
wigwags.wordpress.com...


[edit on 5/26/2010 by Rockpuck]

Star and Flag for that post, Rockpuck, it is true, and right on. America was never the same after that war, it is no wonder why in some parts of the country people still call it, "The War of Northern Aggression." My family lost a great deal of land and money because that war, and never recovered, and they were not alone, either. History records the war was over slavery, but it was really over Washington trying to tell the cotton States how to live, and imposing unfair taxes and tariffs on exports. The sad thing is America seems to be quickly heading toward another war much like that one, and Washington seems to welcome it. They are doing everything possible to make us angry, and are stripping away our freedoms as I write this. Who knows how it all will end?

"- The Civil War was actually the single deadliest war ever fought by Humans up to that point, and wouldn't be challenged until the first World War. 620,000 Americans died. "

The Napoleonic Wars claimed between 2.5 million and 3.5 million military deaths so i would say that was the deadliest up until ww1. en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Rockpuck


S/F and standing ovation. great post.

reply to post by Rockpuck


The federalists are the boon to the US of A no matter what century you live in, be it the 18th, 19th, 20th or the 21st.

Centralized power will be the boon to mankind. It always has and always will be.

A massive and controlling central authority will always destroy the rights of the individual for the "supposed" betterment of the collective.

Lincolns own words described his ulterior motives, it was all about control and saving the bloody federal control over the individual Republics. Seems they do not teach these things too often anymore in our "public" schools. And the people do not actually read the true history of our country. They would rather get the edited and condensed version.

Now we have the federalists (statist totalitarians IMO) wanting to take it to the next level. Global governance.

Not to go off topic I will now include some of my threads where I explored some of the issues involved in the powers that the individual Republics still have and what the underlying problems are.

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Which Republic do you live in?

I started calling the State of Wisconsin the Republic of Wisconsin a few weeks ago. I was trying to get a trend going.

What is the purpose of the US Military?

Secession, our last viable solution to the Fascist/Socialist State?

I will make a prediction. If one state would do it, almost 2/3 would follow. The fed of course do everything in their power to stop it, and THEN the rest would follow. Seeing that our leaders do NOT want choice or freedom, they want CONTROL. Just as any other tyrannical government that has come before.

Legal Slavery, right here in the United States of Hypocricy!

Alright, the new 13th Amendment-
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

involuntary servitude-A condition of compulsory service or labor performed by one person, against his will, for the benefit of another person due to force, threats, intimidation or other similar means of coercion and compulsion directed against him.

The Democracy Conspiracy

A Constitutional Republic is a state where the head of state and other officials are elected as representatives of the people, and must govern according to existing Constitutional law that limits the government's power over citizens.

State Sovereignty Resolutions

Seems that a lot of Republics out there are feeling the same way the south did.

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You bringing up the 12 years of military control and martial law after the Civil War is very compelling evidence of a downright evil that permeated after the Civil War.

When were the Amendments written and passed?

From here-Notes on the Amendments


13th Amendment (the second one if you look into it a little)

By the end of 1865, eight of the eleven Confederate states had also ratified it. Proposed on January 31, 1865, it was ratified on December 6, 1865

14th Amendment

The amendment passed Congress on June 13, 1866, and was ratified on July 9, 1868 (757 days).

15th Amendment

The Congress passed the amendment on February 26, 1869, and it was ratified on February 3, 1870 (342 days).

Now, I do not want to get into the arguments in regards to these Amendments and that they were "supposedly" for and how they protected anyone. I am just wondering, if a Republic was under military and martial law, how can someone with a gun to their head vote against anything?

S&F OP

The federalists must be removed from power and the Republics and the Citizens must exert their unalienable rights of Sovereignty and Freedoms, from the tyrannical totalitarians in control now.

History does repeat itself, maybe this time, we can all be free.

[edit on 5/26/2010 by endisnighe]

Nice job Rock! S&F for the VERY excellent post!

My father and I have had this debate for nearly two decades. He is an old school corporatist who believes that the government is inherently good. I, on the other hand, am anti-federalist to the core. I have explained millions of times that when the South lost the Civil War - EVERY single state in the union lost as well and the federal government succeeded in executing a complete coup over state's rights. Well, we've certainly been witness to that for over 100 years!

reply to post by autowrench


I think it's pretty amazing how different parts of the country remember it differently. I grew up naturally agreeing with the Union, I saw them as the good guys, the Confederates as the bad guys.. we would take trips to Gettysburg and see the battlefields and listen to the Unions side of the story. But I grew up in Ohio. And I see now that history was very, very biased against the Confederates.

Since moving out west I was sad to see that this place .. almost devoid of history it's self, it's quite remarkable, I cannot think of anywhere else in the World a land can exist that has so little history. Aside from Lewis and Clark, and some history of British and French fur companies, this land cannot tell the tale of civil wars and fights for freedom.

reply to post by Recol


Sorry, it was a mere technicality.. the Napolianic Wars were technically a series of individual wars, the civil war being the single deadliest till the first world war.

reply to post by kozmo

My father and I have had this debate for nearly two decades.

Same here! .. We used to have matching political views, until I went to college and studied history, I saw the "other side" .. I was more interested int he history NOT taught.. surely there is a reason that only one side of history is exclusive in education? .. I've only ever had a handful of professors and teachers strive to show the two sides of the story. The Civil War is probably Americas single greatest political cover ups.. I mean just read the US Govs description of Lincolns life on the white house page... utterly disgusting.. it's a travesty to history. We are literally FORCED to view the Confederacy as being evil hicks from the South trying to keep their slaves, instead of what they really were, just trying to live their lives how they wanted to.

I believe the civil war was an arranged event serving multiple purposes. The primary purpose was to kill and traumatize a lot of protestants while infusing Catholics into the system. I think Robert E. Lee was working for the north. He slaughtered his men at Gettysburg because ending the war had become the agenda. The other main reason for the Civil war was to create the corporate system.

After the southern states left the union there where two choices: create a union without them, break the law to go after them. No good reason to go after them but that's what was done under the rational that it was a noble cause (anti-slavery). Because they chose that approach they where unable to act under the constitution. They didn't have enough member participation to pass legislation. So they "Set aside" the constitution and invoked war powers. Were war powers intended to be used against the republics?

During the confusion, they destroyed as many copies of the constitution and amendments as they could then after the war substituted the "anti-slavery" 13th amendment replacing the "no one can hold a title of nobility" 13th amendment. Then they created the USA corporation with an effective territory of D.C.. Then they made the citizen of the USA 14th amendment which in their minds makes people "employees" of the USA and therefore under the authority of the corporation. The key point is they "Suspended" the real constitution and constitutional government in 1861. At the end of march 2010 and for the first time the uSA was restored to it's constitutional government under Law. At least the process has lawfully been started.

The main point of the civil war was to begin the infusion of a vast criminal and corporate system. Which has subjugated, brainwashed and imprisoned generation.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Excellent work Brother.

I've always refered to the War of Northern Agression as the 2nd War for Independence.

When I try to tell people it wasnt about slavery they scream.

Eli Whitney had just made the cotton gin and some other things that were revolutionizing cotton production.

Slavery was on its way out as a financial burden.

How about the WHITE slaves (called sharecroppers) that were in no better condition than the blacks to a certain extent.

The best one that REALLY makes heads spin....

Black slaves that VOLUNTARILY fought to protect their owners property and fought for the Confederacy. I have a friend whose family did have land and slaves. They did their best to keep families together AND find the lost members (not always possible). The slaves stayed on the property and continued as employee's AFTER emancipation.

It's heritage, not hate.

God bless Texas and God bless the Confederacy! May her colors fly again!

I pray to the Most High that as our noble undertaking is began, we may with courage, honor, and unwavering faith stand the test. As the Sun rises in the East and sets in the West, so shall our Beloved America be reborn.

So mote it be.


--------------------------------------------
The Bonnie Blue

We are a band of brothers and native to the soil
Fighting for our Liberty, With treasure, blood and toil
And when our rights were threatened, the cry rose near and far
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star!
Hurrah!
Hurrah!
For Southern rights, hurrah!
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

As long as the Union was faithful to her trust
Like friends and brethren, kind were we, and just
But now, when Northern treachery attempts our rights to mar
We hoist on high the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

Hurrah!
Hurrah!
For Southern rights, hurrah!
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand
Then came Alabama and took her by the hand
Next, quickly Mississippi, Georgia, and Florida
All raised on high the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

Hurrah!
Hurrah!
For Southern rights, hurrah!
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

Ye men of valor gather round the banner of the right
Texas and fair Louisiana join us in the fight
Davis, our loved President, and Stephens statesmen are
Now rally round the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

Hurrah!
Hurrah!
For Southern rights, hurrah!
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

And here's to brave Virginia, the Old Dominion State.
With the young Confederacy at length has linked her fate.
Impelled by her example, now other States prepare
To hoist on high the Bonnie Blue flag that bears a single star.

Hurrah!
Hurrah!
For Southern rights, hurrah!
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

Then here's to our Confederacy, strong we are and brave,
Like patriots of old we'll fight, our heritage to save.
And rather than submit to shame, to die we would prefer
So cheer for the Bonnie Blue flag that bears a single star.

Hurrah!
Hurrah!
For Southern rights, hurrah!
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

Then cheer, boys, cheer, raise a joyous shout
For Arkansas and North Carolina now have both gone out;
And let another rousing cheer for Tennessee be given
The single star of the Bonnie Blue Flag has grown to be eleven!


[edit on 26/5/10 by felonius]

reply to post by Rockpuck


nice post. I didn't know some of that and I'm pretty "into " history so thanks for the quick lesson...

I'll have to read more into it and check the links.


peace

reply to post by felonius


You forgot about the indentured servants, they were also white slaves.
Slavery was just a cover for the war, to gain the support of the abolitionists.

Edit to say that racism actually became worse after the civil war.
Slavery would have been phased out with the invention of the cotton gin. Had things stayed on this course the slaves would have integrated in to society much more smoothly and would have not faced as sever segregation and we wouldn't have the KKK.
To punish the south for their rebellion the north stripped the land owners of their land and gave it to the slaves. This WAS NOT meant to help the slaves but to PUNISH the rebels. They got kicked out on the streets and instead of taking their anger out on the north they took it out on the ones occupying their homes.

[edit on 26-5-2010 by calstorm]

Very nice thread. Makes you think twice about that famous phrase "Death to tyrants" uttered in latin. John Wilkes Booth was an initiate, in his pictures he shows it off that he is taking the right handed path. Was his motivation states rights, or rights of the people? Will we ever definitely know?
One thing is certain, the war was not just about slavery. The united states became closer to the united state after the civil war. Injustice socially has been used to give the government more power since the creation of the U.S. Just like the use of the interstate commerce clause used for civil rights to end discrimination. Yes, discrimination is wrong, but giving the federal government more power is also wrong, probably worse in the long run.

reply to post by ReelView

I believe the civil war was an arranged event serving multiple purposes.

I believe you are half correct. As far as 50 years prior to the Civil War the Federalist knew the South would secede form the Nation .. it was an inevitable outcome, because already the states in the South were using it as a threat if the North did not stop their economic warfare. I think the reason and power behind it was the mega industrials of the North saw the Southern resources as vital to their aims, as well as centralized banking which was one of the pillars of faith to a Federalist.

I do not believe that the South and North fought each other in some super sized conspiracy against all people in general .. I think that you will find in Human history, and in current affairs, the vast array of Government and military power is governed loosely by people holding on to their chairs, clueless about how to steer things as a whole. Ultimately though those with money dictate power, and the direction that power is used.. this has been the case since Man stood on two legs .. man with the biggest club wins, it's simply in our natures. In the South the agricultural aristocracy was the leading voice for secession, by seceding they could govern their version of the economy vastly differently form the North. In the North you had the Industrialist, Bankers and Railroad tycoons interested in directing the Federal Govenrment, because Federal Power to them meant unlimited access to all States without dealing with "locals".

It became clear that this was the case because after the Civil War in the few decades before WWI broke out, massive corporations were created that transcended boundaries, and took control over Southern resources, and almost all were based in New England.. it was the era of Monopolies that climaxed with the creation of oil corporations. Meanwhile the South was left in poverty, and is still the poorest section of the country to this day.

reply to post by felonius

Slavery was on its way out as a financial burden.

Indeed, the only reason to keep slaves within the next decade would have been for population count on the Census, to keep the South more represented. In fact that was the only reason the North disliked slavery, it counted toward the Southern Census, and not only that, but when freed they were 9/10 times more likely to vote along the Federalist line, which is why the South installed many black politicians throughout the South right after the war. Yet even after the War, the North was never accepting of African Americans.. hmm..

Eventually someone will say something about Ft Sumter, which the Federal Government had promised not to reinforce before Mr Lincoln took office, Mr Lincoln started a war with Ft Sumter as an excuse , How many casualties were there at Ft Sumter?

I will let the readers look that one up, whatever happened at Ft Sumter wasnt worth 620,000 American lives.

Never mind that 70% of the federal Government revenue was from tariff placed on cotton, never mind that once Louisiana seceded the Federal government lost its busiest port.

War crimes perpertrated against southerners during and after the war that get whitewashed by history, The burning of Atlanta amongst other cities during Shermans March to the Sea, it wasnt a movie like Gone with the Wind , it was just as bad as what the Germans were doing to the Russians on the Eastern front, Hitler even used Shermans March to the Sea in his propaganda magazine Signal. Dont mention the tens of thousands of Southern young women and girls white and black sent west and sold off to Brothels in Chicago and California.

Look at the transfer of wealth from South to North in the years following the Civil War.

Lincoln and the Northerners didnt care about blacks they had all sorts of laws restricting blacks in the Northern states and when Northern States outlawed slavery all they did was ship them south and sell them to southern plantation owners.

White southerners are still considered second class citizens by the Elite Northern liberals unless of course they want to have a draft and use them to fight wars all over the world. I learned this lesson in the first grade when a my teacher a black woman from Chicago slapped me across the face because she didnt like my accent, I subsequentlylearned not to speak with an accent to avoid discrimination so much so that one could not tell that I was a native Southerner.

Why werent Confederate Leaders tried for treason? Because they were lawfully and constitutionally right, not because of some high minded attempt at reconciliation.

If the southern states were not allowed to secede and were still considered part of the Union, then how could any of the states , Kansas, West Virginia and Nevada be legally admitted to the Union.

If the southern states were still considered part of the union then anything passed by the Federal government during the civil war years was illegal because the Senate and the House of Representatives could not have been properly seated.

Rant mode off dont want to derail the thread

I refer to this clip of the Daily Show for my response to this attack.

www.thedailyshow.com...

reply to post by DarkStormCrow

Eventually someone will say something about Ft Sumter, which the Federal Government had promised not to reinforce before Mr Lincoln took office, Mr Lincoln started a war with Ft Sumter as an excuse , How many casualties were there at Ft Sumter?

Ft. Sumter was manned by the Union, under Lincolns orders because "The Confederate occupying the Fort is a threat to those States loyal to the Union"

Keeping in mind that the Fort, in South Carolina territories, it was one of only 4 Federal forts not surrendered as soon as the states seceded. The claim however was that because Sumter was so vitally important it had to be defended. It was essentially a baiting game.. they baited South Carolina, and South Carolina attacked.. escalating full scale war. It worked perfectly because the North could then parrot to other states and the general public that the South were war hungry barbarians lusting for a fight -- and that's exactly how the North public perceived the battle.

Ft. Sumter was 500 miles from the closest Union city.

Another interesting fact regarding the Civil War, and the Plutocratic control the Federal Government would come to push onto the nation:

The New York Draft Riots (July 13 to July 16, 1863; known at the time as Draft Week[2]) were violent disturbances in New York City that were the culmination of discontent with new laws passed by Congress to draft men to fight in the ongoing American Civil War. The riots were the largest civil insurrection in American history apart from the Civil War itself.[3] President Abraham Lincoln sent several regiments of militia and volunteer troops to control the city. Although not the majority, many of those arrested had Irish names, according to the lists compiled by Adrian Cook in his Armies of the Streets. The rioters were overwhelmingly working class men, resentful because the draft unfairly affected them while sparing wealthier men, who could afford to pay a $300.00 Commutation Fee to exclude themselves from its reach.

Beautiful history... that they will never, ever teach your children in school (or hell, even college)

They considered Martial Law in New York, but the Union had insufficient troops, eventually they just decided to kill as many as they could:

The military suppressed the mob using artillery and fixed bayonets, but not before numerous buildings were ransacked or destroyed, including many homes and an orphanage for black children

The exact death toll during the New York Draft Riots is unknown, but according to historian James M. McPherson (2001), at least 120 civilians were killed.[23] Estimates are that at least 2,000 more were injured.

No one knows how many died, because fearing retribution the working class people took the bodies of their loved ones and hid them, sometimes in their own cellars, stuffed into crawl spaces, buried in church yards or community plots.

Some people have often pondered on ATS whether or not the US Army would ever fire on it's own civilians? .. The vast majority completely unaware that in 1863 the US Army used artillery and musket to murder at least 120 unarmed civilians outside of a war zone, because working class Irish citizens rose up against a Plutocracy.

en.wikipedia.org...

Hmm, I was actually just looking into the civil war earlier tonight, but didn't really think about it in the way its mentioned in this thread.

I just looked at the surface of things, about economic sectionalism based on major difference in population and climate between the north in the south that created a mass difference in lifestyle - one depending on industry to make a living and the other depending on farming.

Then you have slaves as an economic resource combined with a reason to abolish slavery which results in a national split.

Then you have major economic fall of the south from the proclamation, resulting in a cheaper and more conservative lifestyle, as well as affordable changes in religious beliefs such as house-like baptist churches over high-cost catholic cathedrals, creating a bible belt.

This creates major value changes that affect political decisions for popularity based off communities who desire Big/small government or legalities that are more concerned with morals. If anyone wishes to see a map of states that allow corporal punishment, it looks like an almost perfect split between the north and the south.

[edit on 27-5-2010 by juveous]