Questions about official and clandestine Freemasonry

Originally posted by ForkandSpoon


The UGLE would be rightful in demanding that all lodges remain to the original oaths and obligations.....and ones that redefine teeh definitions of those obligation lose recognition.

The UGLE has no authority outside of England. They therefore cannot demand anything of any Lodges outside of their own jurisdiction.

Obviously, they can withdraw recognition from a US Grand Lodge if that US GL abandons the Landmarks, but a US GL can withdraw recognition from the UGLE for the same reason.

You and I both know how the other grand lodges would react to that. Not to mention there would likely be a new lodge in that state that was recognized in time.

Ultimately the obligation has been redefined, a portion that was meant to comment on a person’s legal status (and ultimately their trustworthyiness as a result of that status) was switched to mean something for racist reasons that are quite contrary to the message of masonry being something that was meant for ALL mankind. I believe that message is so basic a principle to the origins of masonry, that one can not feel it is anything less than a MAJOR departure from the basic values of masonry, and deserves to be considered for whether recognition should be continued. I say that as a mason whose state would be one of those affected.....I see firsthand the damage this has done our lodges, and the hypocrisy that is a result......it's a major point as to why many of the men whose virtue we need in masonry most, decide against joining.

No, no one has to take orders from the UGLE outside their jurisdiction, but being no longer recognized would be a huge and eventually possibly mortal blow.....already there are grand lodges within the united states threatening to no longer recognize each other.....this has severely hurt the cement of friendship and brotherly love, and is NOT a part of original Freemasonry.

Just because something so majorly at odds with masonic ideals has been allowed to slide for over 2 centuries, does not make it any less unmasonic, or less a departure from Freemasonry's original values and teaching.

[edit on 24/6/2010 by ForkandSpoon]

This question is for any and all Freemasons who stumble upon it:

A fellow I was talking to the other day claimed to have met a Freemason while in prison. This alone raised a red flag, so I paid attention as he explained how this Freemason he met made an assertion that anyone who insults Freemasonry in front of a Freemason will be accosted by representatives of the organization.

Is there any truth at all to this? Or was the Freemason just a copycat wannabe? I suspect the latter, but I desire an informed opinion on the matter.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Here is the first degree charge. You can guess which one of your options is correct.

BROTHER, [As you are now introduced into the first principles of Masonry, I congratulate you on being accepted into this ancient and honourable Order: ancient, as having subsisted from time immemorial; and honourable, as tending, in every particular, so to render all men, who will be conformable to its precepts. No institution was ever raised on a better principle, or more solid foundation; nor were ever more excellent rules and useful maxims laid down, that are inculcated on all persons at their initiation into the mysteries of Masonry. Monarchs, in all ages, have been encouragers and promoters of the Art, and have never deemed it derogatory from their dignity, to level themselves with the fraternity, extend their privileges, and patronise their assemblies.] As a mason you are bound to be a strict observer of the moral law, as contained in the holy writings*; to consider these as the unerring standard of truth and justice, and regulate your life and actions by their divine precepts. Herein is inculcated your duty to God; In never mentioning his name, but with that awe and reverence which is due from a creature to his creator; to implore his aid in all your laudable undertakings; and to esteem him as the chief good: — to your neighbour; in acting upon the square, and doing unto him as you wish he should do unto you: — and to yourself; in avoiding all irregularity and intemperance, which may impair your faculties, or debase the dignity of your profession. A zealous attachment to these duties will ensure public and private esteem. In the state, you are to be a quiet and peaceable subject, true to your sovereign, and just to your country; you are not to countenance disloyalty or rebellion, but patiently submit to legal authority, and conform with cheerfulness to the government of the kingdom in which you live. [In your outward demeanour be particularly careful to avoid censure or reproach; and beware of those who may artfully endeavour to insinuate themselves into your esteem, with a view to betray your virtuous resolutions, or make you swerve from the principles of this institution. Let not interest, favour, or prejudice, bias your integrity, or influence you to be guilty of a dishonourable action; but let your conduct and behaviour be regular and uniform, and your deportment suitable to the dignity of your profession.] Above all, practise benevolence and charity; for by these virtues, masons have been distinguished in every age and country. [The inconceivable pleasure of contributing toward the relief of our fellow-creatures, is truly experienced by persons of a humane disposition; who are naturally excited, by sympathy, to extend their aid in alleviation of the miseries of others. This encourages the generous mason to distribute his bounty with cheerfulness. Supposing himself in the situation of an unhappy sufferer, he listens to his complaints with attention, bewails his misfortunes, and speedily relieves his distress.] The next object of your attention is our excellent Constitutions. These contain the history of masonry from the earliest periods, with an account of illustrious persons who have enriched the Art in different countries; and the laws and charges, by which the brethren have been long governed. A punctual attendance on our assemblies we next enjoin, especially on the duties of the lodge to which you may belong. There, as in all other regular meetings of the fraternity, you are to behave with order and decorum, that harmony may be preserved, and the business of masonry be properly conducted. [The rules of good manners you are not to violate; neither are you to use any unbecoming language, in derogation of the name of God, or toward the corruption of good manners: you are not to introduce or maintain any dispute about religion or politics; or behave irreverently while the lodge is engaged in what is serious and important: but you are to pay a proper deference and respect to the Master and presiding officers, and diligently apply to your work in the Art, that you may sooner become a proficient therein, as well for your own credit, as the honour of the brethren by who you have been received.] Although your frequent appearance at our regular meetings is earnestly solicited, yet it is not meant that masonry should interfere with your necessary vocations; for these are on no account to be neglected: neither are you to suffer your zeal for the institution, to lead you into argument with those you, through ignorance, may ridicule it. At your leisure hours, you are to study the liberal arts and sciences; and that you may improve in masonic disquisitions, converse with well-informed brethren, who will be always as ready to give, as you will be to receive, instruction. Finally; keep sacred and inviolable the mysteries of the Order, as these are to distinguish you from the rest of the community, and mark your consequence among masons. If, in the circle of your acquaintance, you find a person desirous of being initiated into masonry, be particularly attentive not to recommend him, unless you are convinced he will conform to our rules; that the honour, glory, and reputation of the institution may be firmly established, and the world at large convinced of its good effects.

reply to post by AfterInfinity
He may have been Initiated (which Jurisdiction is anyone's guess) , but regardless of which group he was a member, he was expelled upon the conviction of the crime that led to his incarceration.

Freemasonry is good for society and nice for community and right for government and wanted for husbandry...