Obama lauds South Africa for dismantling nuclear program

Obama lauds South Africa for dismantling nuclear program

www.timeslive.co.za

US President Barack Obama heaped praise on South Africa for taking the decision to become the first country to abandon a nuclear weapons program, as he met President Jacob Zuma.

Obama met Zuma amid a string of bilateral meetings with world leaders on the eve of a 47-nation nuclear security summit, designed to draw commitments from key powers to keep loose nuclear material out of the hands of extremist groups.

(visit the link for the full news article)

"South Africa is singular in having had a nuclear weapon program, had moved forward on it, and then decided this was not the right path," Obama said, noting how South African had since been a leader on non-proliferation.

"South Africa has special standing in being a moral leader on this issue. And I wanted to publicly compliment President Zuma and his administration for the leadership they’ve shown," Obama said.

"And we are looking forward toward the possibility of them helping to guide other countries down a similar direction of non-proliferation."

South Africa abandoned its nuclear weapons program in the 1990s and the International Atomic Energy Agency certified in 1994 that the program had been fully dismantled.

www.timeslive.co.za
(visit the link for the full news article)

I know it's supposed to be just diplomacy. But doesn't anyone think this is a bit fishy. We dismantled our nukes nearly 20 years ago, mostly because no one liked the idea of a nuclear capable ANC. The ANC has had nothing to do with either developing nuclear projects or dismantling them. As a matter of fact our own Nuclear generators have suffered because of the lack of Nuke expertise in the current government.

Is this just empty lip service to make SA feel imprtant? If so why? I also see this as an endorsement of of the lying and credit stealing nature of the ANC and particularly Zuma.

I'm not sure this falls under conspiracy I must admit. But jeez.

Congratulatory slapping a corrupt president on the back for a gesture that had nothing whatsoever to do with him and his administration is just stupid.

I know a all you Americans are divided on Obama but can someone please explain to me what he hopes to achieve by making Zuma feel competant.
Because from where I stand he is making a hero out of another frigging thug who would most likely have detonated a nuke with his own clumsiness had he ever even seen one.

This is not a racist comment but I wonder if anybody has told Obama that the old SA governmet disarmed the nukes for fear of falling into the hands of a black Government.

POLITICIANS!! While I feel for Poland I only whish our government was on that plane. I'm just seeing irony everywhere today

[edit on 11-4-2010 by da_ruse]

reply to post by da_ruse

I can't help thinking, out with the old and in with the new. I mean after the fall of the USSR there was no more justification for those WMDs or even apartheid itself, and for the first time the white electorate within the republic's border was given a choice. In March 1992 they voted in a landslide referendum for the dismantling of apartheid.
I mean what were we going to with them? Nuke whatever township went on the rampage?
More seriously, unfortunately it paved the way for Thabo Mbeki's totally corrupt R60 Billion arms deal, and a lot of those purchases are sitting in harbors because nobody knows how to operate them. Money that could have built countless houses, pay thousands of teachers and nurses was wasted to line ANC pockets, and the obsfucation of it all remains to this day.
Sad really. Sad that the liberal Westerners (who seemingly care so much for black SA that they delight in Terre'Blanche's Rwanda style death) didn't bother to protest with us from their side. Shows how ignorant and shallow they really are.

I do not believe the ANC ever had any.

I believe all the nuclear weapons in south Africa were transferred to Israel before the ANC took power. (they were exchanged for safe haven for South Africans that had to flee.)

All the ANC would have got was the remaining non nuclear components that were not able to be made into weapons.

Obama must be an idiot or this is simply lip service. Zuma, is a tool with less than a grade 10 education, I doubt he could find the button to launch a nuke if it was attached to his butt and he was sitting on his hands. South Africa dismantled its weapons program in the mid to late 80's. The US was there at Pelindaba/Velindaba to make sure it was dismantled. The program was audited. When Mandela took power in 1994, there was no nuclear program and there had not been one for a few years. And yes, part of the reason was no one wanted a terrorist Marxist organization to have nukes because they might use them, the other part was because they would have probably blown themselves up.

Regardless, for Obama to make it sound like Zuma did something about nukes is just plain stupid.

Cheers - Dave

reply to post by bobs_uruncle


Im sorry to say but i disagree, Zuma is no tool and i have alot of respect for him since he become president. He has done alot in SA "Except for the little race war we having even that has died down"

When he 1st took over i was about to leave SA but as i have said he is doing well atm... it takes time to change

As for our nuclear devices that we gave up, I do think its a bit fishy that we did it just before the ANC took over, not that i think they would have used them

I believe this statement has more to do with Obama than Zuma.

One of Obama's biggest goals is the whole non nuclear proliferation thing at the moment.

It's grasping at the only success story in existance. I'm thinking that the "black" card is being played, we're black, we made nukes go away(despite all evidence to the contrary). It's politics. Besides, Obama has NOTHING ELSE to say to Zuma, "congrats on your murder stats, they make new york's looks good?"

The ANC has never had control of a single nuke, i have been assured this by several people over the years. It's possible Isreal got some, but i'm almost 100 % certain Iran got some too. Again only rumours i've heard over years, but it seems that not all were handed over, some were diverted at the time. Since everything was so secret, i don't believe anybody knew exactly how many there were. Or where they ALL went.

Just remember, SA not only has the engineering ability, but one of the largest Uranium deposits in the world. We also have working nuclear reactors, and all the support structures.

Wiki: Iran's Nuclear History

The Shah also signed a nuclear cooperation agreement with South Africa under which Iranian oil money financed the development of South African fuel enrichment technology using a novel "jet nozzle" process, in return for assured supplies of South African (and Namibian) enriched uranium.

Then we have this Washington Post Article

Johan Andries Muller Meyer, a 53-year-old director of a manufacturing firm in the South African town of Vanderbiljpark, was arrested Thursday and charged Friday on three criminal counts of trafficking in some of the most sensitive nuclear equipment available.
Between November 2000 and November 2001, Meyer "unlawfully and deliberately had equipment that could be used to design, manufacture, develop, expose, and maintain the application of weapons of mass destruction," according to the South African charge sheet. The charges provide a detailed list of key nuclear weapons components that Meyer's company, Trade Fin, was alleged to be involved with, including: gas centrifuges that enrich uranium for bombs; feed and piping systems that deliver the uranium inside the centrifuges; and a Spanish-made machine that produces the main centrifuge component -- high-precision steel rotor tubes where the enriching takes place.
After months of complex investigations, the International Atomic Energy Agency and partners in about 20 countries are getting closer to understanding the scope of the black market run by Abdul Qadeer Khan, Pakistan's top nuclear scientist, according to government officials and experts involved with proliferation issues. The network is suspected of helping North Korea, Iran and Libya develop nuclear programs.

The other North Korea connection was WRT Helderberg Crash SAA 295. Components origionated in NKorea and were shipped via Taiwan (No links available, i'll try confirm the source) . En route to South africa, the civilian plane disintegrated in flight, killing all on board.
The investigation was inconclusive, and suggested a whitewash, but various allegations resurfaced for the final report of the TRC.

Oh and about Zuma, he is the 21st century Saddam Hussein.

Obviously a puppet, and only useful because of all the top dogs in SA, he's he one who does as he's told.
The man who would be king, Buthelezi, also a Zulu, would follow his conscience.

Zuma has no moral values, and even those he claims to have he has broken. Only a practical mindedness that is probably similar to "eat or be eaten".

reply to post by da_ruse


Its just nwo talk, for if you do what we want, you will be called moral, lol.

Like all those white farmers who did nothing to anyone, and have been killed. Oh yes the south african government is moral, lol.

You got a good rugby team though.

reply to post by harryhaller


I remember the Vanderbiljpark scandal and I think everyone who has ever heard of the Heidelberg knows that it was carrying material for nuclear development.

But this just seems like an incredibly hollow gesture.
We know Zuma does as he is told.

I want to know whats in this for Obama?

Obama needs a LOT of support. He is on very shaky ground politically.

As i mentioned, anti nuclear rhetoric is essential to popular opinion, as is capitalising on his blackness.

It's a hollow gesture indeed. Rhetoric, empty symbolism. The tell is how every single news group is covering it. Look the other way ... what ELSE is happening right now?

Well greece, poland, SA, UK Elections, claims that Al-Queda are seeking nukes with no compunction about using them, World Cup threats, Northern Ireland looks like it's on the slippery slope again, North Korea, popualtion evac in Tehran... those are just off the top of my head.

The thing is, theres always something else happening. Even without people like us who look for them.

Obama slapping JayZee on the back, Al-Queda supposdely threatening the world cup and Obama claiming they are looking to go nuclear all at the same time does send shivers down my spine. But that may just be intentionally causing uncertainty.

Who knows. I know I don't.

[edit on 12-4-2010 by da_ruse]

I have commented on the wider goings on in South Africa in other threads .
What would South Africa have done with Nuclear Weapons ?
There enemy was engaged more in Gorilla(SP?) Warfare then anything else . IMO Having Nuclear Weapons would have only attracted further International scone and high maintenance costs .

Cheers xpert11 .

reply to post by xpert11


In the 70's already we had nuclear weapons, nuclear power shortly after. Had satellites too, submarines, you name it.

Very simply, because we could.

We are international outcasts, and our economy at that point was completely self sustaining. We had a severe threat against all our northern borders, and apart from unfulfilled cia promises no international aid.

The border war would not have needed nukes, ever. The G5 cannon was more than adequate (althought the G5 WAS capable of firing nukes, i don't think i wanted to be that close to groud zero though) What they were good for was keeping the international community at a respectful distance.

The theory was be ready for anything, which we were. Except for what happened.

reply to post by harryhaller


An interesting post . Nuclear Power makes sense and still does today although the reasoning behind the idea has changed or is different depending on your perceptive . I find it noteworthy that Rhodesia economy somewhat grew under sanctions until terrorists undermined that country . As far as I can tell continued military support for the Rhodesian army would have done more to enhance South Africa national security then nukes .

reply to post by xpert11


Ok let me clarify. I'm not trying to boast that we had nukes or even ask why we decomissioned them. Thats all history and any one with half a brain cell would be able to figure out why we got rid of them.

What bugs me is this empty praise.

Obama is heaping praise on a regime that has made no contribution to nuclear non proliferation whatsoever.

Essentially he is crediting the ANC with something that was done by the ANC's Arch Nemesis. The apartheid Government. Rather than credit an otherwise reviled regime with this achievement he is subverting it and transfering the credit to the ANC.

Most people around the world have no idea that SA was once a nuclear power, by doing this he is making the world aware that we had nukes and making it look as if the ANC was responsible for the dsmantling, raising the esteem of the ANC immeasurably for something they did not do.

To me this is a PR excercise of the worst kind.

[edit on 12-4-2010 by da_ruse]

reply to post by da_ruse


I understand where you are coming from Obama is just trying to sell a daft policy that invites North Korea and Iran to use nukes * . Heck New Zealand Prime Minster John Key scored a invite to the up and coming anti Nuclear Proliferation conference off the back of that country anti nuclear stance . Speaking as a Kiwi I myself am in the minority who has no problems with Nuclear power .

See this thread for Hillary attempt to repair the damage .

* Clearly nukes have no deterrent value if they will not be used in response to a Nuclear or biological attack .

[edit on 12-4-2010 by xpert11]

wasn't it the Apartheid regime that took this decision, not the ANC, why is he praising them

* Clearly nukes have no deterrent value if they will not be used in response to a Nuclear or biological attack .

I disagree.

Nukes are deterrents. Full stop. IE Nkorea has nukes, NOBODY is stupid enough to actually start a war with them (despite not having a reliable launch vehicle) ... and it doesn't matter what they say or do to provoke. The ability to use them EFFECTIVELY is irrelevant, possesion alone is enough.

IMHO, The US's window on Iran closes the day that Iran is nuclear capable. Right now, conventional war will cost Iran more than the US, purely because it would be on Iran's side of the world.