In Lue of Wikileaks: What an Apache fires

After all I did not expect to see the video actually be posted on the wikileak site. Yet do you all understand the size of the rounds these Apache pilots are shooting in this video?

Image of Rounds being loaded into M230 Chain Gun
upload.wikimedia.org...

These rounds are 1.17 inches in diameter, if you look at the image about you can understand the shear size of 30mm round.

To give you an idea a 50 caliber round is 0.510 inch in diameter! Or 43% of the size.

It was heart breaking to hear one of the pilot sum up shooting these rounds at children stating, "Shouldn't be bring them [kids] to a battle!"

It looks like to me that the Van was just trying to pick up the injured.

Wow....

[edit on 10-4-2010 by theability]

[edit on 10-4-2010 by theability]

The only good thing about this story is that someone can decrypt Pentagon decryption...I love it

reply to post by Pockets

The only good thing about this story is that someone can decrypt Pentagon decryption...I love it

Amazing, wonder how long it took?

reply to post by theability


Think the video is from 2007 if I'm not mistaken....so pick a number of years

I don't think it took years for WikiLeaks to decrypt it, in fact the head of WL said "At least 3 months" when giving a time window for a news reporter. I am really excited about all the new tools alleged hackers/whistleblowers can bring to the table though!

I can only hope that they or someone else is working right now on getting more material like this decrypted.

reply to post by theability


Are you sure this was some big secret?

Watch this, about the A-10 ('Warthog'):



Was posted nearly three years ago...

"...a 30mm Gatling gun that fires more than 3,900 rounds per minute..."

Sound familiar?

Speaking of sound....



And, what it would sound like, while the airplane is in flight:




Compare to Apache....I think the A-10 wins!

reply to post by Gumerk


Well if that video is a view of things to come....

and the Pentagon saying what they did...

I'd say they are working on new things for sure...

reply to post by weedwhacker


weedwacker, leave it to you, to start the debate...rotf

hmmm well a bit OT but you and we always seem to head that way.

Yes, the A-10 is powerful, enough to stall out the plane if it had enough rounds right?

What I was getting at, is the shear size of the rounds on the M230 At 2,400Ft/sec...

I don't know the actual mass of one of these rounds, but I could gestimate about quarter pound?
Image:
rostocilmilitarysystems.com...

On this page it says that each round is 0.77 lb
www.tpub.com...

ATK M230
www.atk.com...

Yep, those are some big suckers there, but they killed far less civilians than some other projectiles out there.

The biggest problem however is that many of them are with depleted uranium. I say many because I have no idea how much DU is really used, but it's used enough. The "DU poisoning" and negative long term effects are a major problem.

Still, no conspiracy or secrets there, all is fair in love and war.

Originally posted by theability
What I was getting at, is the shear size of the rounds on the M230 At 2,400Ft/sec...

I am a bit unclear at what the point of this is... The Apache uses a 30mm canon for use against a variety of targets. It is used against people (in this case mistakenly so), vehicles, armoured, buildings et al. It is a weapon. It kills people.

The Eurocopter Tiger uses a GIAT 30mm canon (which seems on paper to be a more impressive weapon than the M230). Attack helicopters are usually well armed and 20mm or 30mm canons are the norm.

Regards

Wow, those things are mini-missiles. What sick frick uses them on unarmed civilians and children? Any news on criminal proceedings against the mass-killer?

reply to post by paraphi

I am a bit unclear at what the point of this is...

I believe the OP explains the point, exactly.

thanks

Originally posted by theability
reply to post by paraphi

 

I am a bit unclear at what the point of this is...

I believe the OP explains the point, exactly.

thanks

Not really... 30mm round on attack choppers and fighter/attacker aircraft are common all around the world. I don't see his point. The video is all about an AH-64 blowing apart Reuters reporters plus other civilians with 30mm bullets, don't see what's so special about that compared to the dozens of other public videos of 30mms ripping apart people in battlefields.

Sort of puts the 7.62mm vs 5.56mm or the 9mm/.40/.45 debates into perspective, doesn't it?

If one of these rounds hits you then you are going to be as dead as a dead thing on sick parade.

I can't believe that these rounds are authorised for use against humans yet it opens up a big ethical debate when someone suggests using expanding 5.56mm in our rifles!

The 30mm seems like a bit of overkill but if it works then crack on. Fact is we're not shooting people to upset them, we're doing it to make them die. Not nice, but still a fact.

Law of War, and I use the term loosely, states that you are supposed to use the smallest weapon that is needed. However, if all you have is a 30mm, then guess what you use.

I mean, these discussion can cause a slipperly slope argument. Do the same rules apply to the insurgents? The tie four or five 150mm artillery shells to knock out a humvee, for example. Should we then take them to court over using too big a charge?

those are some sick rounds...but the fact of the matter is they are used to kill people not slap them on the face...so what is the difference if they are hit with one of these as opposed to getting hit by a rifle...either way the result is the same...

i had the feeling without going back to the video that it was UAV,and the people on the ground were armed,ak47 ang rpg the black van appears to be the same one that dropped them off

watch the long version not Wiki version

yea.the 30mm is a very deadly weapon. you technically dont even have to hit a person to kill him with the projectile, as in the use of a depleted uranium shell. im pretty shure that they dont use that to much anymore. mostly only HE rounds nowdays. i work on these beautiful birds, but to hear that the pilots are shootin at civilians is terrible. im shure that there was some reason atleast for them to fire, as in some sort of threat around. unforntionatly i cant watch the video because my wireless is terrible in these brick barricks