Clinically dead boy 'saw grandma in heaven'

While I do believe that we are spiritual beings independent of our bodies, though certainly dependent upon them when inhabiting them, there does seem to be something to the '___' argument:

However, Strassman also indicates that the pineal gland and endogenous '___' are central during extraordinary events such as birth, death, and the near-death experience (NDE). To support this view Strassman notes that the anatomy of the pineal gland, suspended in cerebrospinal fluid outside of the blood-bathed brain, is independent enough to resist activation by normal stresses, and it is also optimally positioned to deliver '___' directly to the middle brain regions. Furthermore, access to the brain in this way eliminates the need for '___' transportation in the blood – where it would be broken down by MAO enzymes anyway – so it also does not need a pumping heart for delivery, and may continue to be active in the brain even after the heart has stopped beating.

paranthropology.weebly.com...

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I don't chalk stuff up to magic. That's not who I am. If you think it's healthy to be 50:50 split between science and magic, then.. I dunno.. Jump off a cliff and pray that you can fly

Edit: But just in case, bring a parachute

[edit on 9-4-2010 by Kaytagg]

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Well the subject of '___' gets censored -- I was just warned for talking about it tonight -- with a banning warning -- so as it relates to how long a person is dead, etc. -- I can give more information but legally it's not possible. haha.

reply to post by TokiTheDestroyer


Lowest and Highest recorded body temperatures

The NZ Resuscitation Council give the following, unreferenced, figures:

"32C - Altered mental state; 28C - Hypotension, decreasing consciousness; 27C - Shivering ceases; 24C - Asystole, coma; 20-26C - Respirations cease; 13C - lowest recorded survivor from accidental hypothermia; 9C - lowest recorded survivor from controlled hypothermia.

27 degrees doesn't seem that cold to me... but i'm no medical professional.

I have seen a doco where a boy was having a facial deformity rectified in India, his core body temperature fell because they forgot to turn the AC off and he died during surgery...

reply to post by spearhead


When its the core body temperature, a few degrees is a drastic change

Originally posted by Revolution-2012
I'd like to interject, before all the atheist nuts move in for the kill.

Being an atheist does not mean disbelieving in an afterlife and I resent the term atheist "nut" as I don't see what's nuts about disbelieving in deities for which there is no evidence.

Anyone looking at NDEs should look for natural explanations before supernatural ones. Why? Because science cannot prove or disprove the supernatural and because whenever we studying something and compile evidence on something that is not understood we typically find a natural explanation. Germ theory is a great example, for thousands of years people erroneously believed that demons and spirits were running around causing disease and mental illness but when we actually studied disease and illness we found it had a natural explanation.

As for the OP I do find NDEs interesting and this case is particularly strange because he was dead for 3 hours. I'm not sure when the brain is fully dead but there is a chance that chemicals released during death are responsible... sort of like one last dream before you die. Maybe, just maybe, there is something to this but right now the natural explanations are far more sound than the supernatural ones - aren't they always

reply to post by Kaytagg


I'm just not arrogant enough to believe I have it all figured out.

But if it makes you feel superior to attempt to put me down because I keep an open mind on spiritual matters...more power to you...I'm happy I can make you feel better about yourself.

Question though...if it is all scientific and about '___'...why don't all people who have been "brain dead" and revived experience an NDE? Since you have all the answers...I'm sure you will be able to educate all of us.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Who knows, maybe they all do..But, like dreams, you don't always remember them.

Before my great grandfather died last year he went a little crazy!
It is possible before death the brain plays back the epic moments of one's life. Maybe like a slide show or a autobiography... maybe!

[edit on 9/4/10 by spearhead]

reply to post by Kaytagg


Indeed...Who knows???

Not a very scientific answer...but it is a better answer than pretending that you know exactly what is going on when there has been no definitive conclusion to the topic.

That way...instead of making a claim you can't back up and having to backtrack later when questioned on it...you can stay honest and not end up looking silly.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


I see no difference in a Atheist nut than a Christian nut, alas the Atheist has a more viable standpoint than the Christian, but yet they're so passionate about both their science and belief that they are both relatively nutty. Not to mention they're offended by when someone calls them a nut.

For instance, your germ theory, must be demons blah blah blah, no one cares, that was 100s of years ago and proves ab-so-lutely nothing.

A typical "atheist" nut will find EVERY, LAST, SINGLE damn "SCIENTIFICALLY PLAUSIBLE" explanation they can before they give up... EVEN IF THE EVIDENCE SUPPORTS AGAINST THEIR SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION, they STILL think they're right, because they refuse to leave their box.

I'm agnostic, I give a crap what ANYONE thinks about ANYTHING!!! Do I buy into everything? I most certainly do not. Have I ever been wrong?? Yup. Damn proud of it to, want to know why? I can admit to it.

Now, I'm in no way shape or form calling you a atheist nut, but those who use the current standards and understanding of science to support their EVIDENCE(which by the way, they do not have evidence) of no afterlife.

Yes, atheists have as much proof that there is no afterlife as I do there is a afterlife.

Want to know why?

Well, we've yet to kill someone, leave them dead for 24 hours or so, preserve their brain, make sure not a damn thing is happening in their brain, and bring them back.

There you go, if you can kill a human, make sure there brain is not corrupted in anyway shape or form, bring that human back to life 24 hours later, and that person says there is nothing well damn that's pretty hard to beat.

And in fact, I'd vote for a atheist to do it because they're the most optimistic of the afterlife.

Sorry for rambling off track, read the report, definitely interesting hopefully we can have some unbiased people with medical expertise give their opinions.


[edit on 9-4-2010 by Revolution-2012]

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


There is no such thing as magic. I AM making that claim.

Prove me wrong; If you think these people are going to some magical afterlife, after they die, prove it. Otherwise, I'll continue to believe, with evidence on my side, that superstitious magical thinking is complete nonsense.

reply to post by Revolution-2012

There you go, if you can kill a human, make sure there brain is not corrupted in anyway shape or form, bring that human back to life 24 hours later, and that person says there is nothing well damn that's pretty hard to beat.

I'm not even sure this would prove anything as it still remains anecdotal evidence. If we are beings who inhabit a body, then why do we not "remember" our experiences of beingness before we are born? If we are this sort of spiritual being, and I am inclined to believe we are, then there must be something about our biology that is inhibiting our "memories" of existence before life. Or, maybe not, I just don't know.

reply to post by Kaytagg


Sorry friend...that is not how it works. You can't try to turn it around on me when it is you that needs to provide proof.

I have made no claim...so not sure what you want me to prove. I said I find NDEs interesting...I like to look into them and look at the details. Some seem very explainable...some not so much. I have made no claim though to say I know what is happening.

YOU on the other hand have said you know exactly what is going on. And if it is a normal bodily function as you suggest...then it should work exactly the same for each person. When I asked you why not...you backed away from a definite scientific explaination to "who knows".

It is not a negative thing to admit that you don't know everything...and that you don't have an answer for everything. Doing so does not mean you are believing in "magic". But it does take some humility and a certain level of intelligence to say "I don't know".

But since you can't do that...and you are the only one that has made a claim here...prove to me 100% scientifically that all NDEs are caused by '___'. I'll be waiting.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


too many wrong things in your post..

I can't prove a negative.
&
Not all bodily functions are the same.

I didn't read anymore of your post because I assume it's just as wrong as the first half of your post

Not again!

If anyone feels the need to argue about this please go to the other thread where NDE's were already discussed and debated:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Kaytagg


Well that is a great way to dodge a question.

But where am I asking you to prove a negative????

You claimed '___' was responsible...prove it.


At this point I don't expect you to...because you have already shown you are just going to dodge my questions because you know you are wrong...but just can't admit it.

reply to post by Kaytagg


We are defying law of science all the time.

The '___' is just a way for scientists to comfort themselves with the unexplainable phenomena that happens when you die. The '___' is real, but so are the hallucinations. Don't tell me you don't believe in an afterlife. I assure you there is one.

The kid was dead for three hours and his brain was not functioning, meaning logically he should not have had any visions, yet while he was dead he did. Logically it should have stopped right as the brain died which is when it floods with '___'. Meaning his long vision shouldn't have happened, it should have been short.

[edit on 9-4-2010 by Pajjikor]

reply to post by Pajjikor


I don't believe in an afterlife, and I feel sorry for people who do, because I think they simply have not found a way to deal with the deaths of loved ones yet, so they invent some insane, alter-reality where death is just an illusion, or whatever.

I can assure you one thing -- death is real, and when you die, you don't go anywhere, you simply stop working, and your consciousness shuts down and the mechanisms that allowed you to think/feel/love/etc all stop working, and you go back to being the constituent parts you came from -- carbon atoms and water molecules, mostly.

reply to post by Pajjikor


you magical-thinkers keep assuming he had the visions while he was dead. He probably had them before he died, or after he was revived. Not DURING the 3 hours he was brain dead.


Btw, when your unconscious, you lose track of time -- I don't know if you knew that or not. But I'll be glad to be the first one to tell you.