Why do you wan't to believe in an afterlife?

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by 547000
If there's nothing eternal there is no point to anything. You'll die, your memories will be lost, you were born for no reason at all. All is vanity without eternity. All of this is for what?

There is a point to everything and none of it requires an afterlife. It's actually quite egocentric to imagine that your birth and subsequent experiences are so important that it could only service the attributes of an "afterlife"

What's the point then? Let us reason.

If survival is important, you'll die anyway so what's the point? If evolution is important the universe is ending along with everything in it, so what's the point? If your memories are important, they will dissolve into nothingness, so what's the point? If your legacy is important it will be forgotten so what's the point? In fact, we could ask, what's the point of the universe if there is nothing eternal beyond it. The universe comes and goes, people live and die, all for nothing. Without something that lives beyond the universe all is futile vanity.

[edit on 9-4-2010 by 547000]

[edit on 9-4-2010 by 547000]

double post

[edit on 9-4-2010 by 547000]

It's not that I WANT to believe in an afterlife. It's just that when I look at the question...I don't have a definitive answer...so I would be wrong and dishonest to myself to declare one or the other the "correct" answer. So instead I look at some of the only "evidence" there is...NDEs...people communicating with passed relatives...ghosts...lots of other stuff. Do I believe all of it??? No...probably not most of it. But there is the occasional case or two where it seems to suggest the consciousness remains in some way...in some place. I don't know of much evidence besides the absence of evidence to show that there is nothing after we die. So based on that...I do believe, not "know", I BELIEVE there is something of an afterlife.

So the question is an odd one...because you are asking why I would WANT to believe in an after life. Well....Why Do you WANT to believe there is no afterlife???

If you WANT to believe something...then you have an agenda...on either side. It's different than knowing or simply believing...but WANTING to believe implies there is an agenda behind that belief. So what is your agenda in WANTING to believe there is no afterlife?

I know the people's agenda who WANT to beleive there is an afterlife...but what is the agenda for those who WANT to believe there is NO afterlife???

To answer the original question, why do I want to believe there is an afterlife, well I think for most people it is to comfort yourself when you lose someone. I am not religious, I am a spiritualist though, although sometimes I find myself amazed by science and overly skeptical of spiritualism, I think the two entwine and make something remarkable.

What would our world be without being self aware. Yes it would still be a huge biological machine, but where would the passion be? Self awareness has bought passion to the world, both positive and negative. It has allowed us to track our own creation and question our own deaths, it has even allowed us to determine we are no more important than an ant on a leaf or a fish in the sea.

My point being for me is that because we are self aware, we have these memories, emotions, we carry with us so much more than just flesh and bones, that for me I find it hard to see an end. I want there to be an afterlife because there is so much in this world that is not instinctive, not bound by laws of science, unexplainable. I know the things I feel, but don't know why, people know the things they have seen, but cannot explain it. There are many things left to explain about this world I think the afterlife is one of them

Originally posted by Freq Of Nature
To me the whole concept of an afterlife is one of the worst things anyone could believe in...

An eternity of consciousness

A friend said to me its sad that I don't believe in an afterlife, so my comeback was I think its sad that you can't accept that its a possibility that when you die that is it!

Think how many people are born and die on a daily basis!

If you believe in an afterlife please post your thoughts

I say that considering we even exist, including the entire universe and everything in it, why is it so far fetched to believe that there may be a life after our death?

There is one heck of a lot we humans can't explain. Our whole reality is pretty bizarre. An entire universe that just happened to appear from seemingly nothingness? Who is right and who is wrong? Who is truly capable of knowing such a thing?

Our entire existence is pretty miraculous. Oxygen to breathe, water to drink, food to eat. The fact that every living thing on this planet plays a vital role in our ecosystem and in many cases, our very survival.

I'd say that it is nearly impossible to rule out the possible existence of an after life. We probably wont know for sure until we die.

reply to post by Freq Of Nature


I don't necessarily believe in life after death.

BUT...I believe that if there is an afterlife, people have to pay for their sins.

reply to post by Freq Of Nature


I would rather believe in an afterlife and be wrong, than NOT believe and be wrong. If i'm wrong as a believer, I'll never know it because I'll be dead. BUT, if I'm wrong as a non-believer I'm going to be scared and confused as crap after I die! I also believe that some of those who do not believe and find out there is life after death end up roaming around not realizing they are gone and wondering why the world is ignoring them. This would be the ultimate hell in my opinion.

Just my thoughts.

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by 547000
If there's nothing eternal there is no point to anything. You'll die, your memories will be lost, you were born for no reason at all. All is vanity without eternity. All of this is for what?

There is a point to everything and none of it requires an afterlife. It's actually quite egocentric to imagine that your birth and subsequent experiences are so important that it could only service the attributes of an "afterlife"

What's the point then? Let us reason.

If survival is important, you'll die anyway so what's the point? If evolution is important the universe is ending along with everything in it, so what's the point? If your memories are important, they will dissolve into nothingness, so what's the point? If your legacy is important it will be forgotten so what's the point? In fact, we could ask, what's the point of the universe if there is nothing eternal beyond it. The universe comes and goes, people live and die, all for nothing. Without something that lives beyond the universe all is futile vanity.

There's no way I could untangle that knot of "reasoning" you've developed, but it confirms my original response. Your view is wholly egocentric. You believe your life, memories, experiences and legacy are so important that it would all be "pointless" somehow unless it survived death. So goes your reasoning that there just has to be an afterlife to accommodate your all-so-important life experience. That viewpoint is futile vanity.

Originally posted by collector60490
reply to post by Freq Of Nature

 

I would rather believe in an afterlife and be wrong, than NOT believe and be wrong. If i'm wrong as a believer, I'll never know it because I'll be dead. BUT, if I'm wrong as a non-believer I'm going to be scared and confused as crap after I die! I also believe that some of those who do not believe and find out there is life after death end up roaming around not realizing they are gone and wondering why the world is ignoring them. This would be the ultimate hell in my opinion.

Just my thoughts.

So you're living out a version of Pascal's Wager then?

As smart as Pascal was with the sciences, his spiritual philosophies pale by comparison

[edit on 10-4-2010 by traditionaldrummer]

Judging from the posts, most people believe in an afterlife...

My other question to you is why would you wan't to live for eternity?

What happens when the earth dies?

Originally posted by Isosceles
Our entire existence is pretty miraculous. Oxygen to breathe, water to drink, food to eat. The fact that every living thing on this planet plays a vital role in our ecosystem and in many cases, our very survival.

There's something called the Anthropic Principle, which says that The World and The Universe seem to be tailor made for us because if they weren't, we wouldn't be here to observe them.

Multiverse theory says that there are an innumerable amount of universes in The Multiverse, and that they are constantly being created and destroyed. It stands to reason that a certain percentage of universes, and planets in these universes, will be suitable for life. There is no reason that we have to have a purpose. Life exists for the same reason an asteroid, planet, star, or black hole exists: because it can -- the laws of nature allow for it.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by 547000
If there's nothing eternal there is no point to anything. You'll die, your memories will be lost, you were born for no reason at all. All is vanity without eternity. All of this is for what?

There is a point to everything and none of it requires an afterlife. It's actually quite egocentric to imagine that your birth and subsequent experiences are so important that it could only service the attributes of an "afterlife"

What's the point then? Let us reason.

If survival is important, you'll die anyway so what's the point? If evolution is important the universe is ending along with everything in it, so what's the point? If your memories are important, they will dissolve into nothingness, so what's the point? If your legacy is important it will be forgotten so what's the point? In fact, we could ask, what's the point of the universe if there is nothing eternal beyond it. The universe comes and goes, people live and die, all for nothing. Without something that lives beyond the universe all is futile vanity.

There's no way I could untangle that knot of "reasoning" you've developed, but it confirms my original response. Your view is wholly egocentric. You believe your life, memories, experiences and legacy are so important that it would all be "pointless" somehow unless it survived death. So goes your reasoning that there just has to be an afterlife to accommodate your all-so-important life experience. That viewpoint is futile vanity.

No, existence itself is absurd unless there is something transcendental. That's my point. The universe accomplishes absolutely nothing in the end whether it exists or not, if there's nothing that exists outside it. There is no purpose or value to anything at all.

A something sandwiched between two nothings. Think about how absurd it all is.

[edit on 11-4-2010 by 547000]

Afterlife would be awesome to me. I truly believe that before you die you know where you are going and you go there. Everyone has their own interpretation. The bad guys would get their just desserts for hurting the good people and they know they would. Even if they believed in forgiveness they would know what was coming. And me, I could spend all of eternity completely aware, which on this plane sucks sometimes, but on a higher plane would always be awesome. Just being able to live out eternity with no fear would be great. My personal view of the afterlife is that of Valhalla. I think I will go there when I die. I will have plenty of babes, booze, and fighting. Yea its gonna rock. If you honestly don't believe in the afterlife then you are probably gonna just blackout when you die. Nothing wrong with that either, but wouldn't be on my wishlist personally.

Originally posted by 547000
No, existence itself is absurd unless there is something transcendental. That's my point. The universe accomplishes absolutely nothing in the end whether it exists or not, if there's nothing that exists outside it. There is no purpose or value to anything at all.

A something sandwiched between two nothings. Think about how absurd it all is.

[edit on 11-4-2010 by 547000]

Again, you're assuming there must be "something beyond" because you cannot seem to fathom the possibility that there may not be a meaningful point to something's existence. That is a vain viewpoint: to assign such an importance on the universe having meaning to hominids. Purpose and value are conceived by and measured by people. The universe operates independently of our desires.

Then you're a nihilist or an existentialist I take it?

[edit on 11-4-2010 by 547000]

reply to post by Freq Of Nature


our brains cant process or understand what happens after death, thats the problem, so, if you say you are OK with nothingness when you die, you are delusional since our brains cant process that

we may die but our atoms will live and be part of other things in nature, so, your body actually wont die ..

about something EXTRA meat ... as I said, our brains cant understand

[edit on 11-4-2010 by Faiol]

Originally posted by 547000
Then you're a nihilist or an existentialist I take it?

Not really, although I can easily see how you would come to that conclusion.

Thanks for the interesting conversation in this thread.

reply to post by 547000

The universe accomplishes absolutely nothing in the end whether it exists or not,

Hummm, that's a first, the universe and everything in it, all pointless,

Ecclesiastes 1
Everything Is Meaningless
1 The words of the Teacher, son of David, king in Jerusalem:

2 "Meaningless! Meaningless!"
says the Teacher.
"Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless."

3 What does man gain from all his labor
at which he toils under the sun?

4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.

5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.

6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.

7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.

8 All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.

9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

10 Is there anything of which one can say,
"Look! This is something new"?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.

11 There is no remembrance of men of old,
and even those who are yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow.

Now who said the Bible was worthless?



For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

[edit on 103030p://bSunday2010 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by 547000
Then you're a nihilist or an existentialist I take it?

Not really, although I can easily see how you would come to that conclusion.

Thanks for the interesting conversation in this thread.

No problem. I found it interesting too.

Originally posted by randyvs


Why would life be just a short space between two nothings?
In a world where everything is logical and has purpose how could you think life is any different?

It's possible.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't think it is relevant. The only important thing in life is what you leave behind for future generations.