"Truly free people do not need to be told they are free" - J. Fresco on RT

"Truly free people do not need to be told they are free" - J. Fresco on RT

rt.com

“War is the supreme failure of bridging the differences between nations,” according to the creator of a social model called "the Venus Project" – American futurist and inventor Jacque Fresco.

Fresco also thinks a resource-based economy is the key factor to preserving world peace.

“Democracy is a con game, it is a word invented to outplay people, to make them accept a given institution. All institutions sing ‘we are free’. The minute you hear ‘freedom’ or ‘democracy’ – watch out, because in a truly free nation, no one has to tell you that you’re free,” Fresco s

(visit the link for the full news article)

I am sure many of you at ATS are aware of this man, Jacque Fresco. The viral video 'Zeitgeist' was based on his philosophies, with the followup 'Zeitgeist Addendum' that explored the more in depth route of becoming an activist towards his ideals.

Thought this was interesting that Russia Today, a new and upcoming news agency, ran a segment on the man. Here is the video I will try to embed, otherwise it can be found at the link to the source:

edit to add: Embedding of video didn't work, visit source for video interview.

I think he deserves more attention on the mainstream media, and RT seems to be the outlet that is covering all of these topics lately. They even have a bunch about 911.

Check it out.

rt.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 16-2-2010 by beebs]

To the contrary of what is being stated here, I think the reverse. Nobody has to tell you if you are NOT free.

I can't seriously entertain the idea that I am not free. I think if I were anything other than free, I would know it. I tend to be suspicious of the motivations of people who tell me I'm not.

People shouldn't make the mistake of equating freedom with money.

"Out out of Russia comes again the hope of the world" Edgar Cayce
I think the russians are doing lots of great things right now to combat the NWO and improve the world, so the fact that a russian news agency ran a story instead of an american one does not surpirse me at all.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


If you want to see how "free" you are, I can list a thousand things for you to try, that will all get you arrested.

You can't across a street at the wrong place (even if no cars are coming at the time), you can't do so many things without a proper license (driving, hunting, etc., etc. etc.), in recent years you can't even show up at a Republican or Democratic convention with the innocent intent to peacefully protest. In most parts of this country you can't pay someone to have sex with you, you can't gamble, you can't smoke a substance (marijuana) that is less dangerous than alcohol. Oh yeah, you can't be drunk in public, even if you aren't bothering anybody. It's just not "proper," ya know, so you'll be arrested for that too.

I could go on and on. Not even getting into what I consider freedom-protecting laws such as laws against harming others. Basically the only laws that SHOULD be in place are laws simply against harming others. Anything else is limiting personal freedom, not protecting it.

You never think about these things because it's already ingrained in your mind that they are "illegal" and you are NOT free to do them. So you ignore them when people talk about "freedom." It's classic doublethink.


If there is such a thing as true freedom, it would surely be illegal.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting

Nobody has to tell you if you are NOT free.

Right. This is the problem... Not enough people realize the extent to which they aren't free. I agree totally with bsbray11. If we were free, then I wouldn't have to pay taxes, I wouldn't have to ask permission to drive, or anything that involves a permit for that matter. I wouldn't have a corporation named after me spelled in all capital letters, I would be able to change my name without asking a court... etc.

@C2C:

I think the russians are doing lots of great things right now to combat the NWO and improve the world

Yes, recently I have noticed this to the point that it is extremely obvious.. and I think they are working hard to make it that way, much like Iran works hard to look good, because it has to in order for enough people to see through the Israeli and U.S. propaganda. Also, interesting quote by Cayce, never heard that one.

As a side note to this whole thing, I just found out that during the writing of this whole post, the song Freedom Aint Free by Brother Ali was playing in my itunes.

“Democracy is a con game, it is a word invented to outplay people, to make them accept a given institution. All institutions sing ‘we are free’. The minute you hear ‘freedom’ or ‘democracy’ – watch out, because in a truly free nation, no one has to tell you that you’re free”

What an excellent quote! The main reason so many think we live in the "free world" is because they are repeatedly told they are free. And repetition is the most basic form of mind control.

Originally posted by bsbray11
If there is such a thing as true freedom, it would surely be illegal.

Try looking up at some mountains and thinking, "gee, I'd love to just give everything up and go and live there for a while". Then count the laws that stop you.

LOL

tell to the families in Iraq and in Afghanistan that they can be free ...

tell that to people that dont have money even to eat

tell that to people that need to work the whole day to buy basic things to his family ...

your mind can be free, but your body may never be free ... the gov doesnt want u to be free, they want you working for them, they like that your life depend on them ...

thats why I doubt that there are really free people out there


[edit on 17-2-2010 by Faiol]

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
Try looking up at some mountains and thinking, "gee, I'd love to just give everything up and go and live there for a while". Then count the laws that stop you.

I do, all the time, trust me. And I'm not sure whether you were being rhetorical or not but there are laws against it, believe it or not. Even when the land is public property, national forest, I don't have the right to just go erect a shelter and live there. And obviously I don't have any inherent right to be on anyone's private property at all, unless it's my own.

For one thing there are anti-squatter laws that place limitations on how long you are legally allowed to camp on public property, and it's on the order of a couple weeks max. For another thing it is illegal to erect anything even resembling a permanent shelter (you need a building permit, and it must be up to code). It's also illegal to have a fire during certain times/seasons. I am not familiar with all the technical info on these laws but I know they do exist. To go hunting or fishing you need a license.

Some "freedom" huh?


Maybe in colonial America where no one was around to give a damn, but not anymore...

[edit on 17-2-2010 by bsbray11]

I am free. I can and do anything that I choose to do.
I can leave this country USA .
I can buy my land and piss on my fence. ( and I do! have 2 acres to mark still )

I can beat the # out of a cop that acts like a spoiled brat with a baseball bat.
on and on and on....the only thing that I have to consider is the reprocussions of my actions and wether I decide they are worth the satisfactions of defying a "socially unacceptable act".

When my answer to myself is yes then lets play ball!

reply to post by beebs


Just to set the record straight the first Zeitgeist film was based on all of Peter Joseph's musings. The second film "Zeitgeist Addendum" was about the book "Modern Money Mechanics" with an interview at the end with Jacque Fresco.

reply to post by bsbray11


Yes, I am aware of what you are saying. But I am free to break those laws if I so choose, and have the freedom to accept the consequences if I so choose.

I personally would not endorse the chaos of anarchy.

Again, I question the motives of anyone who tries to tell me I am not free. In fact, the examples you give are rather minor considerations in my estimation.

I don't think people really realize the freedoms we do have, and have a tendency to take them for granted, just because they have always been.
Then will whine about.....it's illegal to scale the walls of the Empire State Bldg., or some nonsense.

It's why people hate prison so much....the absence of freedom. Someone telling you when to get up, what to eat, where to eat, what to wear,when to go to bed, when to go outside. Not being able to work, or vote, or raise a family, buy a home, or drive to a favorite spot. Those are the important freedoms, which we do have.
Those are the ones we take for granted. And that far outweight the restrictions we have.

Paying taxes sucks. Yes. But I don't consider that I am "working for the government". I consider I am paying my share to support the roads, services, etc. we have. Wish we could have those things without paying taxes but unfortunately that's not the case. But do I simply work to maintain the government? Of course not.

Some have said on this thread something to the effect that your freedom exists only in your head. This works both ways. Your prison is in your head, too, you know. If you choose to focus on it.

If I were not free, I would know it.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by bsbray11

 

Again, I question the motives of anyone who tries to tell me I am not free. In fact, the examples you give are rather minor considerations in my estimation.

It is the same thing as trying to get you to walk into their trap over another's. Consider it to be a competing meme subject to natural selection. If we accept one extreme, we'll be blind to creeping infringements of our freedoms, if we accept the other, we'll be so encased in a mental prison we'll go out of our minds believe we have no self-determination.

Meh...who knows. There's something deplorable about anyone trying to constantly hammer me with an idea, trying to make me "see", but really they just want me to be them and not know it.

reply to post by EnlightenUp


I agree. I was very concerned with the past passage of the Patriot Act, and had some real questions about how that would play out, and effect us over the long run, and whether it would be abused.

And I agree infringments upon our freedoms can creep up on us, but hopefully we are astute enough to recognize when the infringments are genuine and a real threat.

In the meantime, I prefer to take advantage of my freedom, and not bemoan our current laws....which by the way, we mostly vote on.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
Yes, I am aware of what you are saying. But I am free to break those laws if I so choose, and have the freedom to accept the consequences if I so choose.

If that's the case then everyone in the world is free, are they not?

And I think that's really being disingenuous to the people who are living under brutal dictatorships. The US may not be the worst but it is still a darkening shade of those colors, and claiming we are all "free" while we still have these stupid, stupid laws that force us to risk life and limb, even simply to live out in the mountains alone, is intellectual dishonesty. Not to mention how politically sterile we all have become since we can't even assemble and protest anymore with the riot police coming in and busting us up.

The thing about our forefathers is that they didn't have to break laws to express their freedom. Or if they did, there was enough leniency in the fact that there aren't people around to enforce stupid laws like don't camp in the same place for 2 weeks, don't have a fire at such a time, don't gamble, etc. etc. etc.

I personally would not endorse the chaos of anarchy.

Unfortunately if you repress a people with increasingly stupid laws until they rebel, that is exactly what you will get.

The alternative is to not push your citizens around like you own them, like this is a police state, and arbitrarily decide how "free" they are really allowed to be. Like I said, the US is not the worst, but the trend is certainly NOT towards more freedom in recent years, and you know Americans are naturally not going to take very kindly to that. It's why many people are stocking up on so many weapons in recent years you know. They are even whispering about trying to take guns away from people now, and you know the NRA's motto is "from my cold dead hands." If you don't want anarchy, then don't be afraid to put your representatives in their place! YOU pay them you know!

Again, I question the motives of anyone who tries to tell me I am not free. In fact, the examples you give are rather minor considerations in my estimation.

Only because you are so afraid of breaking the law that your behavior is dictated by the laws to begin with. That is not free.

I question the intelligence of anyone who is not eternally vigilant against their government. You are not GIVEN the right to be free, many people had to DIE for it. And with the passage of some laws the freedom they died for can be undone without a whimper. And here you sit saying you question anyone who tells you that you are losing freedoms? I say you are LAZY. And unsympathetic to the cause of true freedom in the first place.

I don't think people really realize the freedoms we do have, and have a tendency to take them for granted

How can you take them any more for granted than by letting them slowly slip away right in front of you?

You know it is classic propaganda to tell people they are free when they really are not. If a government is restricting what people are allowed to do and increasingly herding them around like cattle without any say in their own fate, do you think they are going to tell people they are taking all their rights away from them? Hell no! Even though they are blatantly doing it. People would instantly react to that. So instead they sing us back to sleep with lullabies of our national anthem, flag-waving, "freedom" and other emotional patriotic garbage that means nothing and has no substance coming from them.

Then will whine about.....it's illegal to scale the walls of the Empire State Bldg., or some nonsense.

The only reason why it shouldn't be legal is if you fall off onto someone else and harm them.

Seriously, can you think of any other reason why someone shouldn't be allowed to do that? I don't even think "because they could harm themselves" is a good reason. If someone WANTS to do that -- what do you think "freedom" even means?

You can't even do something as simple as go into the mountains and build a shelter and live there. You can't do that. And yet you tell me you are free. You are full of it. You don't know what freedom is.

It's why people hate prison so much....the absence of freedom. Someone telling you when to get up, what to eat, where to eat, what to wear,when to go to bed, when to go outside. Not being able to work, or vote, or raise a family, buy a home, or drive to a favorite spot. Those are the important freedoms, which we do have.

Not if you break any of a thousand stupid laws. The US incarcerates more people than any other country in the world. Another nail in the coffin for the ideal of American freedom.

Paying taxes sucks. Yes. But I don't consider that I am "working for the government".

No, they are straight taking your money without your consent to spend it as they see fit, often going into their own pockets or the pockets of the bankers who issued the money in the first place. Another great example of American "freedom" today.

If I were not free, I would know it.

reply to post by bsbray11


I agree that when it goes beyond common defense, ensuring basic liberties are upheld and providing for elementary needs to maximize the chance of success of every citizen into, bit by bit, socially enginerring every aspect of your private life and preventing you from being somewhat independent of the machine, it's gone too far.

When the gun barrels point inward instead of outward on the ship there is a problem with design.

Also, I certainly don't want a world with a coporate logo emblazoned upon even every dust grain.

reply to post by bsbray11


I am short on time here, but just a brief note to inform you that you are way, way off base here. You have gotten carried away with your own musings. Choose to believe you are imprisoned. Help yourself. It's a prison of your own making.

I can go over every law we have, and drive myself crazy with my "lack of freedom", but I choose not to. I appreciate my country's laws. They are in place for a reason, not just arbitrary for the most part, although some insignificant ones are outdated and disregarded.

But don't condescend to me.....please, I don't consider your ramblings anything neccessarily to take notes on....lol. Be mindful of that...I frankly don't see that you have much to teach me. Not to be ugly, I really don't mean that, but you seem to be under the impression that you have these vast pearls of wisdom of which I should be aware. Sorry, that is simply not the case. You can site J-walking laws all you like. I know about them.

It is your choice to believe the way you do. I personally don't see the bars, I walk right through them if I choose. I certainly don't let them keep me down, or spend my time trying to get others to see the negativities of what might be, as you seem to be doing.

THANK YOU. S&F

The Venus Project escaped my notice - I'll be doing some research now. Fresco is delightful. Great video interview.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


I see many laws as being in place out of fear. Drug laws come to mind which were xenophobically and racially justified and pushed by the interest of business over civil liberties. They certainly are not ignored. They are responsible for a large portion of the prison population.

You know the Combat Meth Act was ridden upon the 2005 Patriot Act? That's why you have to sign a government register at the counter at the pharmacy to obtain pseudoephidrine HCl while useless phenylephrin HCl is peddled on the shelves.

Of course, if people wish to let the propaganda about the latest scapegoat chemical or herb scare them into supporting idiocy, then they are entitiled to do so.

Go to work, send your kids to school, follow fashion, act normal, walk on the pavement, watch T.V., save for you old age, obey the law.

Repeat after me: I am Free.