The $555,000 Student-Loan Burden

Originally posted by seethelight
reply to post by highlyoriginal

 

The best University in Ireland costs Irish folks less than a grand a year.

and see how far a 4 year degree from there gets you in the USA.

Not saying i agree with it - just saying it's the truth.

reply to post by jkm1864


que , im sorry but im a bit perplexed,

i make about 25k a year and live fine and dandy on that sum,
i own a property in the middle of the city´s old town , multiple houses and auto motives,

my main question is what on earth do you do with your money if you have to live a** to mouth on such a sum ? pardon my french.

with sush a sum id just buy property and sell it and never work again.

reply to post by Snarf


It'll get you plenty far.

Trinity is respected around the world.

www.topuniversities.com...

Ranked the 43 best university in the WORLD.

Here's Oxfard's website:

www.ox.ac.uk...

Look how much it costs.

About 5 grand.

The US is the ONLY place that thinks you need to spends 100s of thousands to be well educated.

Originally posted by seethelight
reply to post by Snarf

 

It'll get you plenty far.

Trinity is respected around the world.

www.topuniversities.com...

Ranked the 43 best university in the WORLD.

To be clear, I'm an American expat living in Ireland. I have kids here.

I know what the education system is like in America and Ireland and the UK (Where I've also lived).

Of the three I'd choose Ireland.

The UK has good universities and some good primary schools, but overall, I'd choose Ireland.

I went to Ohio State and Boston University. My wife works at Trinity and is a Trinity grad.

I'm not just talking out of my ass.

More on Trinity:

en.wikipedia.org...

Top 100 Universities:

www.topuniversities.com...

The second highest ranking (after harvard) is the University of Cambridge in the UK.

It costs GBP3,070 per year.

Harvard costs 30,275 per year.

reply to post by highlyoriginal


$2.4 million would barely pay the hush money when a tenured professor does something naughty with a student. Or when the college make a serious blunder and has to pay some hush money. And that happens quite a bit.

With the skyrocketing cost of education in America we are creating a generation of debt slaves before they even get their first full time job.
Kids right out of college are in 100k of debt and haven't even worked a day in their lives yet. I feel bad for the younger generation dealing with this.

There was a time in America that you could choose not to go to college. You could learn a trade and actually make good money. These days most blue collar jobs have been outsourced to other countries with low wages. The only options for kids that don't go to school is Walmart or fast food joints.

College has become just another greedy big business. They don't really care about getting people ready for the real world. They just want to get as many kids in and out of the system as possible for maximum profit. That is why you see so many kids coming out a school with no clue about the real world.

Originally posted by Snarf
this is not directed at you, OP, since i don't know your personal situation

but i do know, personally, a few people in my inner circle that went to school, wracked up huge debt in student loans, and still work dead-end hourly jobs at malls and restaurants.


You have to pair a degree with ambition to make it count.

I agree that College is both a sham, AND too expensive

But i also agree that it's necessary in the world we've all created to go to College if you strive to be what you want to be when you "grow up"

IE: Can't be an astronaut without a college degree, no matter how much you might know about space. (i know, thats cliche, but you get the point)

I don't disagree with you at all. But if I have more knowledge in specific areas than someone who has a bachelors or masters degree in said field, what makes me less qualified? In fact, since I self teach myself many things, I get my own hands on learning - and I put as much attention to things I need to learn more than a student can at a college with 100+ students sitting in the room with NO individual attention.

I would easily go up against someone with a college degree - take a test right next to them, time it, do whatever, and I bet I could test higher than them for the most part (depending on the specified area of course). I'm not saying my IQ is 186 and I am overqualified for college, however I do think that there should be accelerated programs that get as much recognition as those who spend 4, 6, 8, 10 years studying and not applying their skills to their field of interest until their done school.

If I, for example, were to take some sort of job offer in pharmacology/chemistry I would accelerate very fast. I'm a quick learner, I grasp concepts very quickly not to mention as I stated before I have a lot of prior knowledge in these areas.

As for the 'accelerated program' idea that gets high recognition, it should be hard, very hard to pass, but that's the point. I mean you can pay two different ways out of a class in college here in the US (I forget the difference between them but they are very similar). Basically you're given a test covering everything you would have learned in your college course, and if you pass it, you get full credits earned towards your degree and you never have to set foot in class and take a test. I have spoken to people who have done this with all their first/second semester classes and literally paid and tested their way through their first year of college.

So okay, why don't I do this? Well you're looking at a few hundred bucks for each class you're testing out of on top of the payment for the semester, and living expenses, books (if you buy them/need them), etc... Many cannot afford to do this so they must sit there and listen to crap they already know.

It's a waste of time. This time could be used to gain experience in the career field you are trying to get into. I have a few very large pharmaceutical companies (Merke and Teva to name a couple) at which I could probably easily get an internship if I were able to afford school at the moment and get back into my chem major classes that are required to get the chem degree.

On a side note, can a US citizen take online classes at a university in another country, or must I actually get a visa to go study there in person?

Originally posted by jkm1864

Originally posted by truthseeker1984
Well, if she is indeed a Doctor, then she qualifies for the public service sector thing that Obama was talking about. After 10 years her debt is wiped out, and after 25, if she still has a balance remaining, it's still wiped out. Now whether or not I believe that is something entirely different and for a different thread.

If she is indeed a Doctor, she's probably making well over 100k a year. If that is the case, then it shouldn't be a problem to pay off that debt in about 10-15 years if she lives on about 50k of income. Of course, if she is a mother and has a mortgage and all that other stuff, obviously that is going to be a problem. If it were me (single male, 26, apartment dweller), and I was making 100K a year, I could live quite comfortably on 50k a year with the other half of my income going to my student loan debt. Not to mention that you also get huge tax breaks in the student loan interest.

I can tell by Your post that You have no damn clue what so ever. Here is a news flash if You make 100K a year You might keep 50K after the tax man cometh. So please stop acting like people whom make 100K a year have it so easy. I generally make 100k a year and I can assure You We live pay check to pay check just like You. The only difference between someone making 100K and one not making 100K is the car You have and the house You have.

If you are paying 50% in taxes...then you should have someone else do your taxes.

I'm not saying you are lying...but I think you may be getting ripped off.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I completely agree, I believe the poster was exaggerating a bit. I understand where he's coming from though, my father owns a business and makes a decent income (although he works 11hrs a day 6 days a week with a horrible heart condition which may end up killing him if he doesn't stop working!) and after paying for employees insurance, rent for the property (which he's been leasing for close to 20 years now, and yes he knows he should have bought it but did not have the money to do so at the time of the starting of the business), supplies, and everything else that comes along with running a business... and paying for a good lawyer to track down people who decide not to pay up, and paying for security, and paying for inventory... etc... you get the idea.

His actual income is not nearly what the net profit yearly is. In fact a lot of money goes to paying to use the name of the business as well (and let me tell you it's a very large sum of money to use the name but it brings the business so...).

I know how much my father makes, and I know how much he actually gets out of it, and it's not nearly what he deserves. But that's life I suppose...

Originally posted by rcwj1975
And the best part....college really is a sham. Or shall I say getting a basic Bachelors Degree is useless. Most of the time spent in college is paying for general courses that mean nothing towards your major, and then when you finally take classes IN your major, they really don't teach you CRAP about what you need to know when/if you get a job in that field.

Ever notice how when you graduate and get a job you have to learn almost EVERYTHING because the BS classes provided in college didn't prepare you for anything!!!! Its a $$$$$$ scam. Why do you think to get a government job you NEED a degree. Is it because all those classes will make you better than anyone else...lol..NO...its so the $$$$ you spend to take useless classes keeps the cycle going for those who fill their pockets.

I both agree and disagree with you...if that is possible


I agree that college in a way is a sham...if you are stupid going in...you are going to be stupid coming out. College does not make anyone smarter and most of the time it doesn't make an individual more knowledgeable either. I know some people like to use their degrees as trophies or as a certificate that they are smart or educated. In my experience...these are the people that know the least in their industry. If you walk into someones office and see their degree framed in an elaborate frame in the center of the wall...be prepared for a lot of BS and very little substance (in general). There is an exception for doctors and dentist where this practice is the norm to put the patients at ease...it's like them telling you "yes...I really did go to medical school".


But I do think it is necessary for a couple reasons.

One thing that college can teach you is to learn how to learn. And to learn how to learn FAST. You either acquire this skill and get good grades in college...or you don't and get mediocre grades in college. You don't need this skill at all to get your degree...but to get good grades in college you need this skill. So when companies look at your GPA...they aren't looking to see if you have gained the knowledge of your chosen major...they are using your GPA as a guide on how well you can learn new material. Because the 100% know that when they hire you...you are going to need to learn new material...and quickly. So if nothing else...it is a good screening tool for companies. Some may not like this idea...but it is true.

The other reason I think it is necessary is because some industries it is very beneficial to have formal basic training so you are at least now the basics of your industry before diving into the job. Could this be done on an individuals own time...sure...but how would a company really know if you have or not. So again...it is useful for employers who are looking for someone who can start and become productive fairly quickly.


I know some people may not like my reasons and say it is just playing into the corporate mindset of colleges. But think of it from an employers perspective. If you had your own business...would you rather hire someone who just told you that they studied all this themselves and learned it well and fast? Or would you rather have some sort of benchmarks that you can compare against? It goes even further than just using GPA to compare student A from student B....it goes to the point of saying "Student A with a GPA of 3.0 from University X will most likely be a better quality employee than student B with a GPA of 3.5 from University Y" or "Student A who has degree N from University Y has wasted their money and should of either majored in something that University Y is strong in, or should have gone to University X to get degree N". Believe me...I know this for a fact that employers do this.

Moral of the story...college is expensive....do your research and either go to a university where your major has a strong rating...or if you can't get into that university...major in something that your university is strong in. Don't throw away your money.

I have 8+ years of collage but no Degrees.

Every time i needed to change trades or jobs i went back to collage on government grants not student loans.
Mostly Pell Grants for displaced workers.

My problem was because i got training that employers wanted and needed work along with the pell grant i would find jobs in the field i was training for before i finish the training for a degree. get hired and be working so much i had no time to finish the training for the degree

I did not really need the training for displaced workers but free schooling always looked good on a resume.

I am 59 years old and disabled and still take collage courses but now its to keep from being bored and setting around watching TV all day.

I worked mostly as a electrician but because i was also a EMT i got extra pay as a job site EMT because many companies liked having a EMT on remote job sites in case of accidents. I also had collage welding training and when needed i did welding on job sites.
I also had collage training in sheet metal work that was useful working on industrial electrical jobs and as a mechanic and fixed company trucks and equipment when needed.

The last job i had was as a mine superintendent and i filled in doing any job needed around the mine to keep everything going.
If some one did not show up for work i filled in and did there job.
the crew that worked for me knew that they could not bulls**t me because i knew how to do all there jobs.
Plus i could train new people and they understood there was no job at the mine that i would give them that i would not or could not do no mater how dirty or boring.


You are never to old to take collage and i have been in classes with people in there 70s that are still taking collage courses.

Many junior collage courses are not that expencive and its fun to show those young kids that they have a lot to learn in the school of hard knocks.

If you don't have the cash, and you sign up for something like medical school, then you must sell your soul to pay for it.

Now she is pretty well forced to gain employment as a doctor, because there would be no other occupation she could get that could pay that debt.

Then it's "shut up and do as you're told", or you're out of a job, and stuck with the debt. Too bad if you discover the cure for cancer (as many have through their experience) because your job instructions are clear.

"shut up and do as you're told"...

... or else pay of your debt working for McDonalds!

Originally posted by Snarf

Originally posted by seethelight
The best University in Ireland costs Irish folks less than a grand a year.

and see how far a 4 year degree from there gets you in the USA.

Not saying i agree with it - just saying it's the truth.

It is the truth. Because no one wants to hire someone who isn't heavily in debt, and therefore, can't be controlled.

[edit on 17/2/10 by NuclearPaul]

Wha wha wha! Does she want some cheese with her wine. It's not that nobody forced her to go to college.......nobody forced her to BECOME A DOCTOR! There a hundred other careers she could have chosen without racking up insane amounts of debt. Look I would have loved to have gone to med school but I had to compromise and become an RN because I couldn't afford it. And I didn't want to be 200k+ in debt to become an MD. I don't fee one damn bit sorry for people like her. She'll be making plenty of money once she is an MD.

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
Wha wha wha! Does she want some cheese with her wine. It's not that nobody forced her to go to college.......nobody forced her to BECOME A DOCTOR! There a hundred other careers she could have chosen without racking up insane amounts of debt. Look I would have loved to have gone to med school but I had to compromise and become an RN because I couldn't afford it. And I didn't want to be 200k+ in debt to become an MD. I don't fee one damn bit sorry for people like her. She'll be making plenty of money once she is an MD.

Your right no one made her become a doctor... but I'm assuming you're happy that you have a doctor to go to when you're sick, right?

Did anyone force ANYONE to be a doctor? No. No one had a gun to their head and was followed 24/7 being forced to study their a$$ off to get their medical degree. And what do you mean "she'll be making plenty of money once she is an MD" ??? She is one! Maybe you didn't understand the wording in the article, or maybe I'm the one reading it wrong but I could have sworn it said she owes this money because she went to medical school to get a medical degree.

Only in the US do you take a 50k gamble. You have to shell out money on useless classes for a degree you may not use and your not gaurenteed a job.

Our state gets a D- for affordibility for college. And because of budget shortfalls, they are talking raising tuition 5%.

This is why the rich get to stay rich.

Originally posted by jrod
I too am getting screwed by student loans. I took out loans my junior year after half-way through the semester I was told that my scholarships didnt cover all the tuition and I took out loans for that one semester. I dropped out, got some extra credits at the community college and joined the navy under the impression I would be elgible for the student loan repayment program. At boot camp I was informed it was not in my contract and opted for the GI Bill which cost me $100 a month for a year for a total of $1200. # happens and I was discharged early under honarable conditons thus not eligible for the GI Bill or a $1200 refund. Even though I gave the Navy stellar service and have a paper trial of over $1,000,000 worth of avionics repairs I was booted out and now unemployed and get collection calls everyday.

I am sitting on over 100 credits but cant get a loan because of defaulted loans, can't use any military benefits because I got the shaft for my service. I could care less about my credit or anything else, I am worried that because my dad co-signed the loan so they can go after him. I'm about over it at this point nothing I can really do, it looks like my humble lifeguard salary will garnished for the rest of my life.

similar I say we find the captain and shanghi his a$$$.

contact your local senator and tell them what is going on see if they can help. They should be more then obliged to help a vet. SHOULd being the operative word.

Trained in san diego? stuck ASW? or over at coranado?

What is so sad and so stupid is that countries charge their young people for learning vital skills.

There should be no student loans, because students should be educated free of charge, because they are of huge value.

This has come about through sheer greed, something that is disrupting the world.