EURO to crash...? Europe's Choice: Dismantle The Euro, Or Cede All National Sovereignty To Brussels

I just checked multiple sites concerning European debt. Overall, the Belgian economy is about 80% in debt. The 3% mentioned in another reply is for this year. The Greece economy is 12.7% in debt this year. As poorly as the dollar has been on the international markets, the euro has dropped considerably recently. Our president is proposing a budget with about 42% debt. For 1 year. How high do you think inflation will hit with this kind of debt? Add in his tax increases, the U.S. is in trouble. Kennedy, then Reagan lowered taxes and the U.S. economy took off. When Obama raises taxes, our national debt will jump. International currencies are doomed to fail. Individual countries politics always rule in bad economic times.

Originally posted by slidingdoor1. Abandon the euro .(Could their egos bear to accept they were wrong?)

Umm... Not everyone wanted the Euro. Us in Norway, last time I checked anyways do.not.want the Euro currency.

I think it's a big mistake and honestly I believe we're stronger if we use our own versions of the currency.

Just my 0.2 "Euros" anyways.

This doom and gloom is being spread by the money men who have hedged on the Euro falling which means they make a bundle when Greece falls. They’re wonderful examples of the greed, corruption and morals that represent this world we live in actually.

honestly, the best thing for them to do is keep the euro as a currency, but let the member nations have their own currency as well that way, you can have England join the EU and save the euro from total collapse. of course, there is always waiting for a world-wide economic crash, at which case we push a button that resets inter-continental debt to zero, and we continue on our previous course. (even if china doesn't collapse, how are they going to enforce that?)

Originally posted by fnord
(even if china doesn't collapse

well. I wouldn't be too sure about that.

The China Bubble's Coming -- But Not the One You Think

Forget about a Shanghai stock bubble. The whole Chinese economy's getting ready to burst.

Financial commentators are obsessively debating whether the recent rise in the Chinese stock market means there's a bubble -- and if so, when it's going to burst.

My take? Who cares! What happens to the broader Chinese economy is what we should really be watching. It will have a far-reaching impact on the rest of the world -- much more far-reaching than a decline in stocks.

Despite everything, the Chinese economy has shown incredible resilience recently. Although its biggest customers -- the United States and Europe -- are struggling (to say the least) and its exports are down more than 20 percent, China is still spitting out economic growth numbers as if there weren't a worry in the world. The most recent estimate put annual growth at nearly 8 percent.

Is the Chinese economy operating in a different economic reality? Will it continue to grow, no matter what the global economy is doing?

The answer to both questions is no.

[edit on 13-2-2010 by SLAYER69]

It will indeed unfold.

The sovereign debt crisis must be dealt with and de-leveraging of debt must occur.

We must let the government defaults begin.

I just woke up from a dream. I were taking driving instructions in USA. While I were driving around, more and more police were arriving on the roads.

The police put good citizens out of their homes and on madrasses on the streets, because they could not pay their bills.

Maybe I just dreamt how martial law would start.

Brussels? You mean Belgium, yes?

It's an americanism. As in 'Moscow is doing x' instead of 'The russian government is doing x' or 'Beijing is worried by y' instead of 'The chinese government is worried by y'.

And the EURO fall apart? Not likely.

Some countries may decide to leave the Euro. Smaller countries particularly.

Greece, Italy, Portugal and the like are just going to have to live within their means. Greece and italy especially need to sort out the mess in-house.

You are failing to see the big picture. The mess you refer to, was very much an unintended consequence of the ECB help for Germany and France. When the ECB lovered interest rates in 2002/2003/2004/2005 to help Germany and France to recover, Greece was already in recovery. This meant that as the ECB kept lowering the interest rate, the greek economy went from recovery to upswing, to heating up, to overheating to giant bubble. Even in the midst of it, the greek government attempted to slow the bubble down, by raising taxes, increasing fees etc. but to no avail.

As you know, every country in the EU has it's own economic system, with great differences in what is considered public/private responsibilities, the organisation of the labourmarket, loans and bonds markets etc. This means that every country will have it's own unique economic cycle.

The purpose of changing the interest rate of the central bank, is to influence demand on borrowed money and savings. When you raise the interest rate, people and businesses borrow less and save more. When you lower the interest rate, people borrow more and save less.

So when the European Central Bank lowered interest rates to help Germany and france, as some of the smaller countries were already recovering, the ECB basically created the crisis that some of the smaller countries now find themselves in.

Their Governments are weak and they feel compelled to give in to Public pressure to increase public sector wages, even during a recession, for example. Plagued by strikes and a populace that seems to think it is entitled to everything but in the same vein doesn't want to pay for it.

Well, that's a different problem. Why should the public sector show restraint, when the bankers, financiers, oil execs etc. didn't. That is very similar to the situation in the US, where the corporate execs have made a killing, while the average person has lost his job, his house, his pension and has to pay through the nose to stabilize the financial system that the bankers wrecked.

You do realize that much of the greek private debt was debt incurred by foreign persons and foreign corporations. A great many foreign entities wanted a piece of the pie, as they saw a booming greek economy.

Both countries are shining examples of places that should not have been allowed into the EURO to begin with, but now they're going to have to suck it up and sort it out.

But that doesn't solve the problem. Next time the ECB lowers the interest rate to help the big economies rebound from recession, some other countries will end up where Greece, Ireland, Portugal and Spain are now.

No sympathy here, none at all.

Then you don't understand the issue at hand.

Greece won't be allowed to sink, but they may find in the future their accounts are gone over with a fine comb and they will certainly have to cut their rediculous spending.

And they may just decide to withdraw from the euro, rather than face the current situation again.

[edit on 13-2-2010 by aaa2500]

Why would a European country lose sovereignty if they can't fullfil the minimum requirements of the Euro? At worst they'd have to revert back to their own old currency.

I'm no fan of the Euro, and imo countries like Italy and Greece shouldn't have been accepted in the first place...but that doesn't mean that things have to be blown out of proportion.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Why would a European country lose sovereignty if they can't fullfil the minimum requirements of the Euro? At worst they'd have to revert back to their own old currency.

Because leaving the Euro is not an option. Not that it could not be done, but because the EU won't let them. As with every other problem in the EU, the mandatory solution is always more european integration, ie more national sovereignty delegated to the EU.

The problem with the euro as I described them above, is that the economic systems are too different. The only solution to that is complete homogenisation of all economies, meaning the same healthcare system for all countries, the same educational system for all countries, the same debt and bondsmarkets, the same financial markets, the same labourmarkets. This theoretically means that all countries will have the same economic cycle and thus the problem will be solved.

It’s very simple as to why sovereignty would have to be ceded to the Netherlands.

The Netherlands has sovereigns that derive their longstanding titles and origins from the Holy Roman and Roman Empire.

Rome actually controls all money and is the heart of our governance world wide. All nations are in fact simply Roman states anyway.

States are basically Estates, when a state goes bankrupt its governance is taken over directly by Rome. The ranking Roman sovereigns on mainland Western Europe would be the King and Queen of the Netherlands.

Welcome to the hidden empire that will not and has never died. Welcome to Rome, please note the exit signs, there are none!

Now back to work slaves! Row, row, row, row, row, row.

Hail Caesar!

reply to post by SLAYER69


Your article seems to indicate that China is cooking its books.

Surely, the next great Superpower wouldn't be so stupid to makes itself look better than what they actually are.

My God, what would the world think if China was caught doing such an act?

reply to post by Anti-Evil


Do you hear it?????

Collapse of the euro is 'inevitable': Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

The European single currency is facing an 'inevitable break-up' a leading French bank claimed yesterday.

Strategists at Paris-based Société Générale said that any bailout of the stricken Greek economy would only provide 'sticking plasters' to cover the deep- seated flaws in the eurozone bloc.

The stark warning came as the euro slipped further on the currency markets and dire growth figures raised the prospect of a 'double-dip' recession in the embattled zone.

reply to post by Number23

The euro is going to be a big source of problems, not a source of help. The euro has no precedent. To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a monetary union, putting out a fiat currency, composed of independent states. There have been unions based on gold or silver, but not on fiat money—money tempted to inflate—put out by politically independent entities.

Good post!
Milton nailed it.
Got hammer?

Since visiting this site, I have noticed a trend.
Everyone wants answers.
I contribute when/as I can.

Follow the Money.....for it is the blood in the Vein/vane? of society. Click here for the Answer< It helps to know the history of it all.....

reply to post by Perseus Apex


I believe the post above is the most 'important' to date.....considering the circumstances You are in.

On second thought, when one brings 2012 into the scenario, it all gets a little clearer telescopically.

Well, one's vision is their beacon of Being.
^ just typed it.....didn't think about it.
It's strange how that works.

No?

without new innovations in currency from means such as culture interaction no matter how much they work or produce they will produce what has been termed a failure in their system.i dont think the move to a cashless system is an innovation and more of europe is attempting to head in that direction.if they refuse to acknowledge their interaction with "black markets" and firms overstate derivatives for the focus on worth of what can be manufactured and sold as a complete product; where is the human force that is necessary to support a growing infrastructure that includes BEAST.my view is that they are a mostly matriarch driven society and even with all the innovations man has bought to the world it is still not a mans world and this is all a play out.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
White man speaking-American.
Oh... I don't know something like real history. Europe has been one of the most violent continents on the planet. Not to mention the global mayhem they carried out for centuries with their colonies, possessions and the slave trade. Did we also forget their participation in Korea, Vietnam. Ooops. I mean French Indochina, Gulf War 1 and Gulf War II?

Please, SLAYER, you honestly to expect me to believe that Warfare only takes place in europe should I look at history? I never said there was no War, but look at China for the same period, or Japan, or the Middle East at almost any given point in time, or Africa at any point in time...

My point being, anywhere with civlisation and people competing for resources you get war. it isn't unique to europe, so saying such things like "Europe is warlike" "look at their history" is doing so with blinkers on.

Maybe the eurozone will collapse. But it would be after the USA.