Is Quantum our highest level of knowledge?

I have explained this as a reply in another post though I think this might be a necessary question to ask, since it may have never been asked on ATS.

Reason be that I ask this, is that Humanity has only been around for a very short time, on this planet specifically. We have only begun to understand what is going on around us in the universe (from what I believe).

Whats your take on this?

I dont think so, when we can fully understand consciousness, then i think we would have learned everything there is to know. We are a long way from that

[edit on 10-2-2010 by loner007]

reply to post by loner007


Well, if we were a long way, I am sure we humans would have the ability to transmit thoughts through the mind, or telekinisis (if spelled correctly).

If you look at the years it took to figure out that the earth was round, on up to 2010, it isn't really that long, compared to civilizations out there that may have managed to exist for so long.

But as I was saying, since the human race, here on earth, is still very close to its beginning stage and are very, very far from ancient, there has to be tons of knowledge out there that we couldn't even begin to understand.

I don't think quantum can be acknowledged to be knowledge yet.

As the brightest scientintists are known for saying, A person who claims t understand quantum physics, does not even comes near understang it at all.

Ever heard a scientist say : I don't know ?

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


I might have heard a scientist state "I dont know" before. Well, hopefully we can begin to understand more of it.

To be honest, I don't know what to call "Quantum". Just put knowledge with it because I see it as something that can be learned

He who speaks, does not know. He who knows, does not speak. I didn't speak - I just quoted :-)

Absolutely not, I think there are many corners in all levels of science.

Quantum is just beginning to be understood and it has been around since 1925. And, still really we know nothing about it.

Quantum is just one of many fields of physics, it is just as important as others. When we figure out how to tie all those fields together and made one larger field we will start to understand physics as a whole.

As someone stated in a post before, consciousness is a big one too, when we can blend physics and phycology(they are closer than you think now) together after the merging of physics then we are onto something.

We are very young as a species, and I think if we started dedicated everything we had to science and understanding we would have millions of years before we could even talk about the highest level of knowledge.

If your question is as for right now, then you can't really take quantum as knowledge because we don't really know anything about it.

Pred...

reply to post by ladyx


But, you spoke when you said you were quoting.

Pred....

Quantum is just a word related to size. . . the field of quantum mechanics is so full of paradoxes and anomolies that even calling it "knowledge" is a stretch at this time.

Since no scientific field has been exhausted id say that in a general sence your question is irrelevant. Every time science makes an advancement new doors and new questions always arrive. Think of science as a sort of fractal. Each branch having (perhaps not infinite) but great depth and detail. The deeper you search the more complex and beautiful it becomes.

If you are asking if the quantum world is the deepest level of reality the answer is no. The size of quantum particles is roughly 10^-23 but it seems the limit of physical research is at the Planck length which is 10^-35. This doesn't mean that space is quantized into planck length pieces just that below this level no meaningful measurments can be made.

I think that the ultimate level of understanding will come when we understand the role of life and mind in physical systems. Physics doen't describe the mind. Although new fractal geometries are leading to great breakthroughs in our understanding of thought and how our brains processes it. It however does not say what gives rise to self awareness.

We have a long way to go. So in short I thnk your question is moot.



[edit on 10-2-2010 by constantwonder]

You all are totally wrong about quantum, theres tons of prooved evidences. Just look at the experiments they do, and yes our highest technologies are quantum. You work it out, they know more than you think. Nanobot anyone.

My thoughts are that you need to find a dictionary and look up what the word Quantum means.

Then log out of ATS and go back to 4chan.

well, OP. you may think that last poster was mean, but you are lucky you posted this during off peak hours. uneducated use of the word "quantum" is liable to start poo flinging contests around this place.

consider yourself lucky. if i were you , i would let this thread fade into the background by morning time and hope no one else sees it.

but, to answer your question: a proper understanding of quantum mechanics can give a person a profound perspective on the universe. QM will probably be the bridge which will unify religious and scientific disciplines, and redefine the boundaries of technology.

reply to post by theflashor

At least two of the people who posted before you--predator0187 and constantwonder--are familiar with new developments in physics and can be trusted to know what they are talking about. I know a bit about physics myself--enough to endorse them when they say that the quantum world and what happens in it are very poorly understood. It is precisely this insufficiency of understanding that allows ill-educated, overimaginative, excitable people to dream up mumbo-jumbo 'quantum physics' explanations for their superstitious, false beliefs.

If you demur, show us some of your 'prooved evidences'. Please understand that an article on some New Age woowoo website or YouTube video is not 'prooved evidence' as regards a subject like this. Show us some peer-reviewed, published and cited scientific papers, or don't bother to show anything at all. Thank you.

* * *

To the OP: I see where you are going with this, but the idea that there are higher and lower forms of knowledge is mistaken, in my opinion. Knowledge is never higher or lower, only more or less useful, and even that is not a criterion of its value.

I really cannot see how knowing that a probability function is a sum over histories is any 'higher' than knowing how to induce mutations in the protein jacket of a virus, or even knowing how to cut and sew a chamois glove.

By the way, if you don't know what 4chan is, I urge you to find out at once.

Originally posted by tgidkp
well, OP. you may think that last poster was mean, but you are lucky you posted this during off peak hours. uneducated use of the word "quantum" is liable to start poo flinging contests around this place.

consider yourself lucky. if i were you , i would let this thread fade into the background by morning time and hope no one else sees it.

but, to answer your question: a proper understanding of quantum mechanics can give a person a profound perspective on the universe. QM will probably be the bridge which will unify religious and scientific disciplines, and redefine the boundaries of technology.

I am a rather strong individual. Just to let something die out because of a fool ranting fools that want to troll isnt going to change the difference of this thread , nor any other thread just because a mistake.

I'm quite sure they know what I'm trying to say, but instead one would not even want to post on the topic, instead, want to pick out the mistakes in the thread, and rant about it. They have nothing else to do.

Thanks for the advice though, but the fear of someone wanting to make a big issue on how I think of (Quantum) as a knowledge, let them. I'll just get mods to handle the situation.

I didnt pick apart one word. The whole premise of your thread is total nonsence. Made very aparant by your use of a particular word, and the way you used it. As its been two weeks it doesn't look like either the mods or the community care much for the issue.

Though I may get in trouble now ive poked you again.

Quantum physics and The Secret don't have anything in common. Based on your second post, QuantumDeath, it sounds like this is what you're questioning. I would really encourage you to investigate Quantum Physics. The theory as presented by the films is completely inaccurate. Or rather, their take on the theory.

If you'd be interested in a fairly basic, though thorough, teaching of Quantum Mechanics, I would recommend the Teaching Company's series of lectures on the Quantum Revolution.

We don't currently understand what goes on in the quantum. Einstein died trying to disprove Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, and there's a reason. It's philosophy, not physics.

The Principle states that if we can't measure something, it doesn't exist. Since we can't measure both spin and velocity, we can, philosophically thinking, ignore it and assume scientifically that neither can be known at the same time. That would be like saying, pre-Newton, that we cannot know why objects thrown fall in an arc because we cannot account for this unknown force pulling the object back to the ground.

The Uncertainty Principle says we can't know the spin and velocity of a particle. Not that it doesn't have both.

Originally posted by junglejake
Quantum physics and The Secret don't have anything in common. Based on your second post, QuantumDeath, it sounds like this is what you're questioning. I would really encourage you to investigate Quantum Physics. The theory as presented by the films is completely inaccurate. Or rather, their take on the theory.

Maybe there is no other easy way to answer this, but I will try to attempt again, this time in a different way. Something that involves technology

Lets say there was a Advanced/Intelligent ET civilization thats been around for millions of years and lets say their brains had all that time to evolve. Now, each of their newborns, youngbloods, however they are brought into existance, has a learning process. Two difficulties, Easy or Hard. Let's say that since they are so advanced, they master every math that we humans know of in a single day. They then, on the same difficulty level blow right through Quantum Mechanics, Quantum Physics, to better say, they naturally can understand everything about it and its secrets.

Now, heres the part where I try to clear up the question.

They have already completed the easy, basic things for their level. Then they go on to the HARD things that would become a challenge to them.

By that, they are learning to understand higher forms of their current "Every Day" learning materials.

What I mean by that is an even more advanced form of Physics, Mechanics, ect. Something that we wouldnt be able to begin understanding, something that we would throw out as just IMPOSSIBLE.

If Humans can apply their understanding of Quantum physics, Quantum Mechanics, etc, with technology, making it to where we can travel through wormholes, we would be considered advanced.

However, If this Super Advanced/Intelligent civilization starts teaching advanced forms, moving on to a higher form, and they have the technology to test the theories, they would simply be GOD.

------It took me forever to choose the words carefully so maybe you would even catch onto what I'm trying to say. It would be a shame if nobody understands this.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by QuantumDeath]

Here -- watch this latest lecture by quantum physicist Nobel laureate Brian Josephson wherein he critiques quantum physics as the fundamental level of reality:

sms.cam.ac.uk...

Also consider nonwestern knowledge like Mayo Clinic certified qigong master Chunyi Lin springforestqigong.com...

I am not sure if we can ever Understand everything. Perhaps, wisdom lies in not knowing.