Wildlife & Us

Hey there,

Yes, i am a firm believer that if Man hadn't hunted and killed Animals for their skins we would be living with them... they wouldn't be afraid of us as they are and they wouldn't attack us if we happened to walk into their territory.... i believe that we would be able to walk up to a lion and stroke it (after the initial surprise), walk upto a bear and play with it (after the initial surprise), that Birds of Prey would fly to us and land on our hands (as they do in some cases.... Falconry for example), I also believe that Foxes wouldn't be so scared of us as they are (due to hunting and us taking their habitat).....

I'm willing to lay a bet that if we knocked down most of these buildings that are clogging up the World and bought back Nature & Wildlife that this could be achieved.

You must agree that when you look out your window or go for a walk (In City areas) that all that Concrete facing you everywhere isn't the best of sights....

The Corporate World has destroyed our friendship with Nature & Wildlife.... we need to get this Friendship back!!

I am striving for my Paradise.... what are you doing?

[edit on 6-2-2010 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist]

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


Even without the hunting, I doubt very much that you could play with a bear or walk up and pat a lion.
Man for thousands of years had lived with nature and still they had a habit of trying to eat us.

I am all for living more with nature, but with better design man can live in cities with rooftop gardens and sky lights etc......

What am I doing to create Paradise?
Teaching my children respect and morals

Originally posted by munkey66
reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

 

Man for thousands of years had lived with nature and still they had a habit of trying to eat us.

That's if you believe what the books say... it could well have been like i say thousands of years ago...

What am I doing to create Paradise?
Teaching my children respect and morals

Good on you Sir

I have a feeling critters were trying to eat us before we went after them. But it could be the chicken and egg thing. I have 45 acres within a dump od a city and have 15 deer that I take care of and they take care of me. I don't want the herd to get too big it's hard enough to take care of now.

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


While i agree with your sentiment... i also feel you are being slightly naive...

Yes, i am a firm believer that if Man hadn't hunted and killed Animals for their skins we would be living with them... they wouldn't be afraid of us as they are and they wouldn't attack us if we happened to walk into their territory

Has the deer ever hunted the wolf?? No!! But the wolf attacks it none the less... this is because the Deer is a walking slab of meat... just like us... Food!!!

While I agree that we should love and cherish our environment... i also accept that it can be unforgiving and ferocious at times....

It’s that "if i do no harm i can’t be harmed" mentality that got that Bear bloke and his girlfriend eaten a few years back...

Admire the bear? Yes!
Love the bear? Of course!!
Respect the bear?? Definitely!!!

Respecting the bear also means not wanting to walk up and tickle its belly... To even attempt this is a lack of respect... its treating it like a toy!!

Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

 

While i agree with your sentiment... i also feel you are being slightly naive...

I suppose i have been a little naive.... there are naturally Predatorable Animals out there.... but didn't Grissly Adams manage to live with Bears?

Has the deer ever hunted the wolf?? No!! But the wolf attacks it none the less... this is because the Deer is a walking slab of meat... just like us... Food!!!

Very true but aren't Wolves also a tamable animal? Used in places like Finland on a regular basis? Also they need to eat, just like us... they aren't carnivores!

While I agree that we should love and cherish our environment... i also accept that it can be unforgiving and ferocious at times....

It’s that "if i do no harm i can’t be harmed" mentality that got that Bear bloke and his girlfriend eaten a few years back...

I had forgotten about that....

Admire the bear? Yes!
Love the bear? Of course!!
Respect the bear?? Definitely!!!

Respecting the bear also means not wanting to walk up and tickle its belly... To even attempt this is a lack of respect... its treating it like a toy!!

Ok... Bears (or any other predatory Animal can turn) but i used to watch Grissly Adams back in the day and it is possible to tame the Bear.

Grissly Addams was a tv show dude. Not reality. I am a huge nature lover. But I have a healthy dose of self preservation and dignity for animals. You mentioned falconry, did you know that the falcon only goes to the falconer's hand because it is kept hungry and the falconer trades the falcon's prey for a piece of chicken or a mouse the falconer is holding in his or her hand?

The Adams bear was most likely born in captivity (something I am not sure I support, many abuses and animal depression and wasting away syndrome result from captive animals) and raised out of its natural habitat. A huge price for the bear to pay for our entertainment.

Another example is how killer whale dorsal fins will droop and flop over to the side when in captivity a sure sign that they are not happy in captivity and made to perform for our entertainment.

Plus if you look at humans they are just a couple genes away from chimps. Chimpanzees have many enemies in the wild and are hunted by many predators for food.

In the arctic the polar bear will track and stalk humans for food; have to respect those big boys.

There are however some examples of what you are talking about. True wild animals that will approach and accept humans.

Grey Owl achieved what you are talking about with wild beavers and birds.
Take a look at these links

www.pc.gc.ca...
www.collectionscanada.gc.ca...
media1.nfb.ca...

I have fed sparrows, chickadees, nut hatches, and grey jays from the hand. It is amazing.

sparrow


[edit on 6-2-2010 by sparrowstail]

reply to post by sparrowstail


Great name you have for my thread

How ya doing Sparrow?

I know Grissly Adams was a TV show but it still showed how man and bear could get on...

You have to love Wildlife IMO not harm it.... i also agree with you that animals shouldn't really be kept in zoo's as they aren't big enough places... and yes animals do get depressed too...

Grizzly Adams the TV show was loosely based on a legend of a trapper who was wanted by the law (supposedly innocent) and retreated into the mountains to live alone. It is rumored that he had a pet grizzly bear that he saved after its mother was killed and which he raised by hand. That is indeed possible, but I seriously doubt he tickled its belly much, or even play-wrestled with it after it grew.

Most higher animals form bonds with 'family', and in certain circumstances that family can include members of a different species. This is not the norm, however, but the exception. Had the legendary Mr. Adams tried to walk up and pet any other grizzly besides the one he 'tamed', he would have been seen as an attacker and summarily removed from existence. And that is all assuming the legend is true. Legends have a tendency to grow beyond factual reality.

I am in complete agreement with Muckster: respect, admire, and even love nature, but in order to do these things, one must first understand nature. Nature is not cuddly and cute. Nature does not care about you. Nature is kill or be killed, survival of the fittest, and life from death. It is majestic and awe-inspiring, but dangerous at the same time.

Back in the day when I was a young redneck, I used to retreat into the mountain behind my home and stay there for days, surviving off the land. It was my altar, my sanctuary. But I understood it. I knew when I saw a black bear cub to give it plenty of berth; mama was nearby and probably wouldn't like me playing with it. I knew better to walk up to a mountain lion (or even a bobcat) and try to treat it like a pet. Oh, I could feed the animals; several times I have fed pieces of meat to bobcats just to get a good glimpse of them. But I understood that they are wild animals, accustomed to the harshness of nature rather than the cushy lives we humans have forged for ourselves and our pets. They would not react the same way a housecat would. So I accepted them for what they were, and went on my way.

I fear that you have read too many stories about animals returning human kindness. Remember that these are stories told through the ages, and like any such story they have been exaggerated and rewritten to serve the teller's sense of right and wrong. If you really want to understand the subject you are addressing, learn to hike and camp, and experience it for yourself. You will find that there is much more to nature than you believe, some of it dirty and nasty, but some of it more beautiful than even those tales of yore describe.

Oh, and by the way: wolves are carnivores, tame or wild.

TheRedneck

Excellent information~

Totally agree that our current relationship with the animal kingdom is a far shadow, in light of our previous & potential harmony within creation.
This can be said of the plant kingdom as well, as we have no idea of their general relationship with humans...the fact is that every one has medicinal or nutritional value.

It seems on a whole we have separated ourselves from this Earth in as many ways as possible and all in the name of advancement...honestly whos advancement...looking around it seems that this way of life is alien to this planet and its inhabitants optimally functioning design.

Our way of life is not the cause of our separation with nature...it is the effect - the effect of a distorted consciousness, or veiled self image of ourselves as separate individuals striving to find purpose in life; where once we were conscious co-creators.

It is not for me to state why this is the case, only to point that we can strengthen our connection with Nature simply by being in the wilderness with the plants and animals...this will help us return the roots of our being...were we have to change our consciousness as living light beings towards our full potential as co-creators.

For instance...Its not enough to change our architecture from a concrete jungle to adobes...what animal in the wilderness will commune with us when we have the flesh of its brethren on our breathe.

Many things need to change and many will~

You are right though, we did have a beautiful relationship with wilderness creatures.
There are many tales of children adopted by wolf packs, and fables in Russia of how bears once were friendly, like dogs.

Everything is connected...our consciousness touches this planet in ways we cannot even guess at this point...and in a way we already are doing~

One
Planet
One
People
One
LOVE

Good points although of the several "Grizzlyman" cable shows there is one of a man in Alaska who feeds the bears and he does play with them -- petting them, etc. Still they try to break into his house and he is constantly reinforcing his home to protect himself -- and it is dangerous besides being illegal. And then the famous "grizzlyman" movie -- reshown on cable -- is of course totally pathetic.

But the bear is well documented to be a spiritual animal for the circumpolar cultures -- I, myself, dreamt of a white bear up against this old oak tree in the yard I grew up in. I returned to my yard and only that old oak tree was gone -- recently cut down. Another time I dreamt of rainbow auras around another old oak tree in the yard I grew up in. So I think there is a connection between animals and humans that may not be on a cutsy "pet" level but also on a deeper level than the physical.

Tom Brown's books get into this -- for example the game of slapping deer as a way to know the animal that is hunted. The Bushmen culture, the main original humans from 100,000 BCE to 10,000 BCE, were the original expert trackers and also 90% of the men were spirit healers who could travel into lions, and become the lions, etc.

reply to post by TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


Thanks for the post and btw i meant Herbivores... they aren't herbivores!!

Ok... back to Edit:

You must of had a great time growing up in that Environment.... i'm sure if it had been me i would have definately enjoyed it... all i had here was a pet dog (which was great of course) and many different species of birds in the garden!

Also i agree with what you say about Grissly... he more than likely would have been killed if he had stumbled across a huge bear in the Mountains but i'd say bears are as scared of us... obviously they would think we were aftter it or its cubs so would naturally go for us but lets just say for arguments sake that if we bought up some cubs (as they do in some places before releasing them out into the Wild) that we could get along (up to a certain point maybe) but we could get along.


GREAT POST AWAKE1234... JUST LETTING YA KNOW THAT I READ IT AND APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHTS!! Starred it of course and yours redneck

[edit on 8-2-2010 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist]

Yes it sure would be wonderful to be able to pet a wild lion without fear of being mauled or eaten, or perhaps play with tiger cubs as momma tiger watches and purrs contentedly, but nature is such that these things will never take place, at least not in this side of Heaven. Most folk make the mistake of comparing animals to humans, and all too often suffer severe consequences as a result. People stop their cars so they can feed bears that have learned an easy way to obtain food. The problem is that many of these people will exit their vehicles in order to get close to the bear and have their picture taken. If they are giving the animal food at the same time, they may get away with it, but if that food runs out and the offerings cease, more than likely the bear will become aggressive and rip into the person who two minutes ago, was so sure the animal had become his or her best friend. Even though animals and humans share the same planet, they live in two entirely different worlds, and unless animals start thinking like us humans, it will always be this way. For a wild animal it's all about survival, and in their world your either predator or prey. Everything an animal does is done for a reason, without any concept of good or bad. For it to make a mistake is usually a death sentence. They don't know the concept of love or hate in the same way us humans do. Some species share a bond with their mate that will last a lifetime, but love has nothing to do with it. It's all about survival and continuation of the species. At least with wild animals a person will always know where they stand when dealing with them, unlike dealing with our fellow humans who are capable of loving each other, but are just as capable of killing just for the heck of it. Then there are the dog lovers out there who are the world's worst when it comes to interacting with them, and treating the animals as if they were their children! Well all I have to say about this is that I'm probably the world's worst! lol! My dogs ARE my kids as far as I'm concerned, and I spoil them just as much as they spoil me. I won't go any farther, as those who love dogs know exactly what I mean and how I feel!

reply to post by Bkrmn


While reading your post it reminded me of the many stories i've read about people who lets say stupidly climb over fences or walls in a zoo enclosure to get nearer the animal only to get ripped to shreads... these people are really unaware and must be willing to get eaten when they climb that fence or wall... surely if you had been kept in Isolation, behind bars or inside an enclosure formany years you too would get frustrated and and angry if you saw something climbing over the fence or wall.... i reckon if the guy or girl had a pair of pliers and cut down the fence or a sledgehammer and broke the wall down that they may well be alive today instead of dead....

And so..... it looks like i was right....

Link to thread on homepage:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Check out how he plays with these Lions and Hyenas.... i suppose if i had found those photos first... my thread would have gained as much responses as his one....