Student: 'Beating So Bad Thought I Was Going To Die'

Originally posted by SyphonX
You seem to be neglecting the fact that they were in plain clothes. This is obvious trouble if you want to just approach a random person on the street. How would you like it if 2 guys came up and grabbed you, tried to pull you away, throw you to the ground and said, "Don't worry, we're police."... ??

Not neglecting it at all. Your ASSUMING that these guys didn't show ID and identify themselves as police. Your argument has no merit since none of us know what actually occured. Having worked undercover before I know what steps need to be taken to ID meyself or my guys and how to not create an incident. Now I DO understand your concern about police not identifying themselves while in plain clothes and how the average person can become frightened thinking..WTF are these guys! The think about that is, when I worked UC, I never approached anyone that wasn't the target, the CI, or someone of interest (and someone of interest means I already have enough evidence to implicate them so they already are aware of their situation). So for your average run of the mill person they will never encounter a UC. This young man may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. This could be a high crime, drug, meet area and the information the officers had was a black male, such and such height, such and such weight coming around this time...and hello...in comes this guy.

There are SO many variables to UC work that it would blow your mind if you ever did it. Also keep in mind it IS necessary.

They should have requested uniformed backup. I can't see how the situation could have been *so* critical, as to warrant such a scuffle.

I am sure uniforms were near by, but the story will not tell you that. You NEVER do a UC operation without marked cars near by. Again your assuming that there wasn't any. As for critical, do you have ANY idea what goes on on the streets in which you live? I promise you MANY MANY people would be shocked if they knew what some of their neighbors were doing.

People are never taught to recognize an officer in plain clothes, ever. Citizens yield to a cop in uniform, always. The only thing a plain clothes officer needs to be doing is observing, and in *severe* situations, taking action. I mean.. that's just the way it is, and the way it should be. Citizens are not able to properly yield to a non-uniformed cop.

[edit on 23-1-2010 by SyphonX]

I agree to a point with this. The AVERAGE citizen doesn't know, but again UC officers never deal with average citizens in that context. Yeah we have situations were they stumble in on or on to our operations and are confronted (which may be the case here), but 99% of those who deal with UC officers already know what the deal is.

Its not a perfect worls Syph, and some things will always go wrong....the key is, to determine if it was a mistake or intentional.

I'm not assuming anything really.

The article states that they were in plain clothes, unless I've misread it?

So they "may" have identified themselves, so what? Like I've already stated, that means diddly squat, especially if the person has absolutely No Reason to suspect he is in trouble or breaking the law.

I also completely understand that, "certain situations may leave the person in the wrong place at the wrong time", but then again.. so what? A cops job isn't to beat the sh*t out of someone and ask questions later. It's high time that a lot of cops learn that. (Not directed at you.)

Also, there probably were patrol cars and uniforms in the area.. but they obviously weren't there, so that's kind of a moot point. The fact remains that they need to be *there* to stop this madness, and they weren't.

You're accusing me of making assumptions, but I disagree. I could easily accuse you of the same, considering you're speculating on the truth of the article or not.. but I'm not going to accuse you of that. It's easy to speculate either way. However, it still stands that the article states they were in plain clothes and allegedly failed to identify themselves.

Beside the point, they were supposedly concerned about a "concealed weapon". So they get this kid on the ground, beat him mercilessly even after the fact that they probably figured out there wasn't a weapon? So they just beat him because he was resisting? Which is also stated in the article by the way, that he "resisted". Resisted what.. arrest? Did they tell him he was under arrest? Once again.. plain clothes.. come on.. how do you think someone is going to react?

Originally posted by rcwj1975
Its not a perfect world Syph, and some things will always go wrong....the key is, to determine if it was a mistake or intentional.

I realize that, but it swings both ways. I'm not condemning police and I'm not on some anti-NWO BS agenda. The reality is, stuff like this needs to be recognized and the people responsible need to recognize their wrongdoings.

What if this was your son, or your brother?



[edit on 23-1-2010 by SyphonX]

Originally posted by SyphonX
I realize that, but it swings both ways. I'm not condemning police and I'm not on some anti-NWO BS agenda. The reality is, stuff like this needs to be recognized and the people responsible need to recognize their wrongdoings.

What if this was your son, or your brother?

I agree it swings both ways and that is why this incident is being looked into, and needed to be.

If it was someone in my family I would be doing the same as this family. Demanding answers and get to the truth of what really happened and why. But I was also raised to believe that once I get those answers, the true ones, I accept them. Meaning IF my family was the one at fault, then I accept that. Today you have people that find out EXACTLY what happened, but still refuse to believe it, refuse to accept it, etc...

EDIT TO ADD: And if I found out they beat my family member for no reason, then hell or high water I will fight to make it right...as anyone should do.

[edit on 1/23/2010 by rcwj1975]

Originally posted by rcwj1975
Its sad to see this. I can't imagine why they had to beat him like that. Having been a CITY police officer for 9 years now I deal with the worst scum out there and trust me, you gotta be careful and pat people down. I have no problem with the cops stopping him and talking to him, asking for a pat down or even a consent search, but even if the guy refuses its not a personal thing...so let him move on. If you have enough ARS then do a quick pat down regardless.

Did the police identify themselves, no idea I wasn't there so I WILL NOT assume so. Did the guy resist or actually take an offensive action against the officers, no idea I wasn't there so I WILL NOT assume so.

I have had to go hands on with many a man in my years, yes I punched, kicked, choked, etc..to save my a@@, but I have never had to (especially with backup) beat a man senseless. Bottom line is, I wasn't there, I have NO IDEA the truth to this story from either side, so I'll be waiting to get updates.

Just to add: The cosmetic damage done to a persons face does NOT always show the truth behind what actually happened. Here in Atlanta we had an MMA fighter attack an officer and 2 officers did have to beat him pretty bad to make him stop. Both eyes were swollen shut, hair was missing, and 3 teeth were knocked out....when people saw the guys face they SCREAMED police brutality, SCREAMED for their termination, SCREAMED the officers be charged, etc....that was until they saw the video footage and what really happened...even with all of his damage, he managed to get his hand on an officers pistol and ALMOST unholster it....so trust me, its not all as it appears everytime...just FYI...

I don't care that i wasn't there this guy was a student and these cops were on a power trip obviously, I personally don't even have the heart to hurt someone so badly I simply couldn't do it. These are beasts don't try to relativize this. He wasn't an MMA fighter and we all know how cops can be so don't try to spin this.

These people were wrong and thats the end line. If people like you would keep comming up with these little spin stories then police could kick everyone all the time, as long as there is no camera you will try to make it all neutral.

Fact is we have seen cops do very bad stuff on camera and off, so don't try to accuse this student.

Originally posted by colloredbrothers
I don't care that i wasn't there

And this is exactly why your opinion and rant below mean NOTHING!

this guy was a student and these cops were on a power trip obviously, I personally don't even have the heart to hurt someone so badly I simply couldn't do it. These are beasts don't try to relativize this. He wasn't an MMA fighter and we all know how cops can be so don't try to spin this.

These people were wrong and thats the end line. If people like you would keep comming up with these little spin stories then police could kick everyone all the time, as long as there is no camera you will try to make it all neutral.

Fact is we have seen cops do very bad stuff on camera and off, so don't try to accuse this student.

PS...who accused the student...

First off, was this a consensual encounter or did the officers have probable cause? Second, did they identify themselves as officers? Concerning consensual encounter, he had every right to run away, walk away, dance away, etc. If this were a case of probable cause, they have to show a crime occured, was currently occuring, was most likely going to occur and that the young man either commited it or was going to commit it. Now based on the story, simply having a "large object" in your coat is no grounds for probable cause. Was the public in jeopardy? Was officer safety an issue?

reply to post by EMPIRE


EMPIRE..you make a great point..in your post alone you can see how many questions HAVE to be asked before drawing ANY conclusion...and since we weren't there it raises even MORE questions...moral of the story..don't jump to conclusions....get more info...and THEN make the best decision possible...

reply to post by rcwj1975


Its certainly difficult without being privy to the case as it evolves, to form any real idea of the facts. Its all very well us discussing the issue here on the board, but without access to the changing picture of events, we are less and less likely to fully understand this incident . This is because such things have a way of moving and changing. New information comes to light, and all of a sudden the entire shape of events is altered, or the perspective changes.
I would love to know how to aquire more recent information on this particular case. Seems to me that without knowing more, further discussion on this topic will , through lack of new info , become a thread full of speculation and assumption, regardless of attempts to sway away from those twin devils !