Mother 'not clever enough to raise child' has baby snatched by social workers

reply to post by Kandinsky


its not just the daily mail, kandinsky, thats reporting this vile story
www.timesonline.co.uk...


i can provide links to other stories and articles, from sources other than daily mail, which states that birmingham,haringey, and doncasters social services are not fit for purpose, failing the children,parents,tax payers and government due to their negligence and staggering incompetence.
And i wouldnt be surprised if social services in many areas of the u.k are as bad as these problem areas.

Its only due to the good work of the journalists and news papers, daily mail included, that we can uncover these injustices inflicted upon these poor people, and uncover the failings of our states services, venting your anger at myself and the daily mail and anyone else who happens to disagree with you or high light s the failings of social services is not objective or rational.

reply to post by hans kammler
Friend, The Daily Mail is an awful news source. It's inflammatory and divisive. My points have been rational. The original point was that it isn't black and white when it comes to children. The social services aren't totally good or bad. For each story like your OP, there are others that are positive that aren't newsworthy.

I spend 5 days a week working with kids that are involved with social services. I draw my conclusions from there. I don't refer to newspapers...any newspapers...to provide my opinions. That's rational isn't it?

My job involves contact with Youth Offender Teams, key workers, parents, carers, social workers, education authorities, criminal justice systems, child protection and the kids themselves.

Try and understand that it isn't simple, straightforward or black and white. Many in the media are quick to condemn criminal children, poor parents, social services and the failings of the criminal justice system. They don't offer solutions.

I suppose it may be a tad presumptuous of me to say so, but, how can we be certain that this is the correct course of action to take?

Mild retardation seems a very small step away from having a 'registered' prerequisite IQ to attempt to start a family.

I wonder if any of us members know anyone, kind and gentle, who they might not consider 'smart enough' to raise a child, but have? Or is it the general consensus - or is there evidence - that this person is incapable of supporting themselves and raising a child in a loving, nurturing, healthy environment?

reply to post by Maxmars


I'd actually say that "stupid" people sometimes are better parents than smart ones (and this is coming from a member of mensa)

Really depends on the parent and the child it's a Dynamic not an answer in singular form...

I often feel like a bit of brains is much worse than either smart or stupid...

It seems to me the worst of criminals and the truly uncaring don't lay in the really low IQ range most often, but rather, just bright enough to be able to cause harm...

for example...

My parents having "some brains... but not enough" drove me nuts restricted my freedoms and never let me live always watching those commercials on TV...do you know where your children are? etc etc... and they were kind of a plague half the time growing up...totally drove me to radical behavior to avoid them...

But if you basically have a good kid, being a Nice loving moron blissfully nonreactive for no good reason, you might make a wonderful parent

It really depends on the child's outlook more than the parents... a BAD kid might need a parent more involved in day to day life, while a basically good kid constantly harassed by a half wit might go bonkers...

I have 3 kids...

And what I am aware of... lol, some are born good and some are born urrrrmmmm more of a handful, parenting in excess sometimes is just the wrong move...

There is no reason on earth this woman shouldn't raise a child...

Doesn't take much brains to hold a kids hand so it doesn't run in front of a bus, cook dinner and assure a bedtime...

Next important thing that is needed is Love...

something this woman obviously has for the child...

Like I said, being stripped of Mom will do more harm...

reply to post by Bluebelle


If a child is removed at birth, and the mother is never allowed to raise a baby, then how can anyone possibly say that the mother is a bad one??

This mother was never given a chance.

This is utterly ridiculous! I used to volunteer helping developmentally disabled adults and a few of them had children and kept their children. They would live in group homes or in semi independent living with other people in similar situations and w/ a counselor there to help, but they were allowed to keep and raise their children and we are talking about individuals who were mentally at about the same place as a 6-8 year old.

reply to post by Jessicamsa


Thats like saying 'Why take the drug addicts baby away as soon as its born? She's not had a chance to be a mother'.
Its a slightly more extreme example, but if social services feel that for whatever reason the mothers learning difficulties will have a detrimental effect on the child then they will take action.
Its completely possible that social services have overreacted in this case, but as there doesnt seem to be much info on exactly what these learning difficulties are then seems a little premature for people to be jumping on their backs when we dont even know the full story yet.

And just to expand on the learning difficulties thing - there's a million and one things that could cause a person to be classed as having mild learning difficulties, can range from something minor like Dyslexia to more comlex one's like Downs Syndrome.

reply to post by hans kammler

This drama has been going on for awhile now in the u.k, all reported in the papers at the time, first social services stopped this young ladies wedding claiming she was to stupid to understand what she was doing, yet she has only mild learning difficulties, a tad harsh.
But the i think the main point here is social services are now beholden to the bureaucratic state, which is becoming far too politically correct, far too uncaring to the public it serves anf far too BIG!.

No - what is happening now is that the state is starting to tell Joe Public how they will live their lives.

The state is starting to control its population.

reply to post by Kandinsky


kandinsky, im not tryinng to antagonise you, and i have the utmost respect for anyone who works as a part of a public service.
I have no doubt that the help you bring to the children you work with is extremely beneficial.And as i have said before im not bashing the social services, and jumping on the daily mail bandwagon, the dm can be full of rubbish at times but when they report facts and events that have happened, htere can be no question that what they do in those circumstances is productive. it sheds light on situations like these, so they may not happen again or the situation can be reversed (if that is the proper path to take)

The daily mail is not my bible.I read various papers daily, aswell as use online sources.

I only take on board the facts, i have my own opinion and i exercise it at my discretion.

obviously the higher IQ you have the more you love your children I could argue both sides of this case but I will still stand and say if she/her family has the money to raise the kid and they aren't neglecting then I see no problem with a mildly handicapped person raising a kid.

Kerry and Mark are getting Ben back today although Kerry and the baby will have to stay in a mother and baby unit. I'm extremely happy for them:

www.dailymail.co.uk...

It turns out that Kerry holds a certificate in childcare and has worked with children:

Kerry and Mark say she has never even had a formal psychological assessment. And the couple point out that before Kerry became pregnant herself, she worked as a childcare worker with children at a local school - and in fact, with considerable irony, holds a certificate in child care.
Kerry says: 'It's true I didn't get many qualifications at school, but I never had very good teaching.
'I did study for my childcare qualification, I can read and write. I send texts, go on the internet and do everything for myself.

Let's hope that they all will have a happy future together.

[edit on 28-1-2010 by berenike]

Children have been removed from allegedly unsuitable parents for decades

I think the issue is what is "unsuitable".

My mother is a one of the "Kinder Der Landstrasse". They are a group of Swiss Gypsy children who were taken away from their families as infants because they were deemed to be "unsuitable". This was done with the full support of the Swiss media, public, and the scientific community. Papers were submitted to scientific journals to justify this crime. Many of the children were sterilized to avoid further " genetic spread of deficient family lines " . Some brief Info in English - More details available in German if you google it.

We must be careful lest we fall into a slippery slope of eugenics, in order to " help the children".