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After Death Immortality Without Losing Identity/Having to Reincarnate

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posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 04:09 PM
I am wondering if anyone here has come across this idea, which I will explain in a minute, in any ancient texts ? I've read a fair amount but may have missed something.

There are traditionally around 3 firmly established notions of what happens after you die :

1. You go to heaven or hell
2. You spend some time reviewing this life then reincarnate
3. You die, don't go anywhere, and must await physical resurrection and judgement

Now there is actually a 4th concept which to my knowledge is not mentioned in any belief system. I call this "conscious immortality". It goes something like this :

I die, I cross over and maintain my sense of self. I am still "me" with all my memories of the life I've just left, but at the same time I am an expanded "me" as am now fully in the spiritual world. I suspect this is a common sensation for most people who cross over, but if they get led into or choose the reincarnation option all memory of this "self" is forgotten.

In my scenario, instead of reincarnating, I maintain my sense of self (now a kind of super-self) and at will can chose to materialize on all sorts of different worlds, in a fully grown body. No need for starting out as a baby, no forgetting everything I've done and experienced in the life I just left. I can go where I want, as I want, creating bodies for my self . When I am tired of a certain world and need a rest, my soul would find a "recharging" station. I would spend some time there then reanimate, all my memories of all lives since Earth still in tact. So I would be a bit like Connor McCloud from Highlander, only not stuck on one planet and able to have rests between worlds and experiences . But I repeat, NEVER losing conscious access to my memories of other lives.

You read about how one can practice certain methods in an effort to remember past lives but of those who purport to have done so, most of the time the memories are in isolated fragments. There is no proper, full access. We arrive on Earth and as we grow and learn to question, we find ourselves utterly clueless as to why we are here, how we got here, where we go when we die, etc. Reincarnationalists tell us we are here to learn, to improve on mistakes made in other lives - but if I can't recall anything about my other lives how can I hope to make any real progress. I would not sit a Maths exam without studying the subject yet here I am, utterly clueless about all those other "me's" I might have been over thousands of lifetimes and the lessons I learnt in them. It's not good enough to have some time with the Akashik records - what's the point when my brain can't access in THIS life anything I might have read there ??

Personally I view the reincarnation cycle as an astral matrix. We talk about the matrix on Earth but only a few people ever seem to consider that the matrix might continue in the astral. We are taught that we are imperfect and must perfect ourselves and living endless lifetimes is the way to achieve this. But just as science is lending weight to the idea of the holographic universe, I view myself as OF the source, not outside of it. I, you, and everyone else on the planet is a part of the whole and as the whole is perfectly in balance then so are we, even with all these "imperfections". We are perfect in our imperfectness so to speak so there is not some "better self" to aspire to over a million lifetimes when I am what I have always been been - a perfect child of the cosmos. Nobody needs to spend a lifetime meditating in a cave to realize this nor have a thousand lifetimes to get "rewarded" with this insight !!

I do not buy into this idea of having to tread the reincarnation wheel for aeons before I can realize what I am. I do not believe my soul wants or needs to suffer in order to grow and learn. I believe the reincarnation cycle is very real but I am suspicious of it and who might have created it . I want to remember who I am, I do not want my memory wiped every time I experience a new life.

So, I like to think there is a 4th option - this "conscious immortality". If you think about it , it's actually a much more attractive option...remember the character in Deep Space's something along those lines I am talking about only without having some parasite in my belly !

So it is curious to me that the reincarnation concept is so dominant - as if it is a "given" this is what occurs. What, because some "holy" looking being arrived on Earth and told someone so and so off they went to start the new religion ? Seen in the cold light of objectivity the reincarnation cycle is just a prison for the soul that perpetually confines it to this little planet in this dimension in this universe in these weak and illness prone bodies which are on a suicide mission to die once you hit young adulthood. All the knowledge you accumulated in other lives is wiped from your mind so that every time you come here you are just as lost as ever you were a million lifetimes ago.

I think there is a better option than this so why does it never seem to get mentioned in the ancient texts or even more modern works ?

[edit on 22/1/10 by cosmicpixie]

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 04:52 PM

Originally posted by cosmicpixie

I think there is a better option than this so why does it never seem to get mentioned in the ancient texts or even more modern works ?

[edit on 22/1/10 by cosmicpixie]

Because the absolute truth does not need to be written down at all, it is simply accepted and understood to be natural laws of existence. Anyone who's trying to get you to read a book, or listen to their sermon, is simply trying to dissuade you from the truth. When the time comes, what has been forecasted by all our hearts and inscribed in our DNA, will reveal it's pure essence to us all and everything will all make sense at this spiritual level of consciousness.

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 04:59 PM
Wow !

Nice thinking !

I think something else, but it's a little bit like yours.

I thing there is a creator. A source.
A way of living it created, to learn about itself.

A Universe we are all part of same origin, A holographic universe !
When we die. We will seize to exist but we have taking part to a greater self awareness of the universe.

This would also explain why we are able to see, witness and even remember other lives an experience. We are all one.

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 05:10 PM
reply to post by cosmicpixie

This is why I love ATS, clever threads!

I never thought this to myself OP. This fourth option is very interesting. But do you realize why you are here? Maybe you are here because you choosen to be here, and you made a choice to forget all your memories of past lifes. Maybe. But now you realized that is possible to carry on your memories to another life. Maybe in the future you won't suffer past events. You will not be bored by things, because you will know to much. Do you have to consider that sometimes our memories cause suffering.

I believe we are part of the All. "As above, so below...". If you decide to carry on your memories the choice is your. I believe everything is possible. Maybe those christians will really go to heaven and praise Lord for all eternity, because they have faith in that.

In the future, with the advancement of technology will be possible to merge computers with brains (Transhumanism). So your forth option will be totally possible. The more years you live, the more technology and power we will have. We will conquer new worlds and dimensions. But I don't know the consequences to carry our memories forever.

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 05:13 PM
reply to post by Sinter Klaas

I agree with the Holographic Universe concept and I also agree we are at once of and "are" the source, experiencing itself/ourself as broadly as possible. But there must be so much more to see, do, experience...places to go, beings to meet, worlds to visit, dimensions, planes and universes to adventure personally when "I" die I do not feel it is my time to permanently return to source though I do feel that I will reunite with true source, connect fully to it, but then will rebound out again for further exploration of self.....only I am hoping and planning to do so as a consciously immortal being.

I feel as though this is my last life here on Earth, I am ready to be free. Not to dwell in some blissed out Bhuddist Nirvana inside some cosmic egg, but to travel all existence as "cosmicpixie". Having escaped the Earth I would envision no longer being attracted to other worlds with dense vibrations so hope to journey to places where the life experiences available have nothing to do with suffering, pain, physical limitations, toxic people and ideas and so forth. Worlds where more "enlightened" or "evolved" species exist. Where I can dwell in a body for 300 years if I so chose, studying a particular subject on one world and then maybe then off I go to some other to learn about something else for 200 years and so forth. In and out of worlds and planes and dimensions, travelling alongside other such souls sometimes, other times alone. Able always and at will to meet up with anyone I've ever met in any world in any plane, to say "hello" and catch up. The same personality as I am now, the same "me" if you like, but so much more at the same time.

You'll have to excuse me, my warm milk has gone to my head and I'm beginning to ramble...

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 05:24 PM

Originally posted by cosmicpixie
reply to post by Sinter Klaas

Having escaped the Earth I would envision no longer being attracted to other worlds with dense vibrations so hope to journey to places where the life experiences available have nothing to do with suffering, pain, physical limitations, toxic people and ideas and so forth. Worlds where more "enlightened" or "evolved" species exist. Where I can dwell in a body for 300 years if I so chose, studying a particular subject on one world and then maybe then off I go to some other to learn about something else for 200 years and so forth. In and out of worlds and planes and dimensions...

That is real fun. I think I want that too... But not everyone is prepared to live forever. First we need to brake the chains of our negative memories. The kind of memories that disturb our real experience in the now, in the present. First we need to be free of past traumas to live forever. The only way is by understand ourselfs.

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 05:24 PM
reply to post by bugasman

Hmm, Transhumanism would achieve something similar but it's not what I had in mind.

Yes, it has occured to me in the past that I might have made the choice to come here. But was that because each time I crossed over I was met by some being or beings who gently influenced me to do so ? I would think most people , when we realize we are "dead" feel scared, confused and vulnerable. We are probably ready to listen to whatever is said by whoever meets us/guides us because we would assume they "knew more" as they are already "there" and might have been "there" a very long time. Up until quite recently I embraced the whole reincarnation thing in a pro-reincarnation way. I bought into all the reasoning behind it, the "justifications". For all we know, when we cross over it might well be the ONLY answer we receive when we sit there, newly crossed over, asking the wise old man glowing with light in his pure white robes..."What happens next ?" And I can imagine that for the vast majority it would appear like a great option, a sensible arrangement . And once we are given time to do our big life reviews and get hit hard in the soul about all the things we feel we have "done wrong" or "failed to do" instantly the guilt kicks in, the self reproach, which of course makes the decision to come back almost a given .

It could also be the case that we don't get given any other option. Some gnostic beliefs held that the Earth and it's Astral extension were controlled by dark entities which created the reincarnation matrix to entrap human souls in a perpetual loop for energy purposes. Robert Monroe, famous astral traveller, concluded similar, describing what he called energy "looshing" going on with souls that had crossed over.

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 05:34 PM
Personally, I do believe that you reincarnate.

But you choose the circumstances for your incarnation to help you learn specific things.

So rather than being forced to incarnate, you choose the specifics and you choose them to learn.

I also think that you put limits on yourself when you incarnate so that you don't remember things that would subvert the lessons to be learned.

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 05:35 PM
reply to post by bugasman

I would imagine so, yes. Once the soul knows it wants out of the Earth/Astral Matrix to go on to something like I have described I would speculate/imagine being drawn to the relevant place/group of souls that can help this healing take place. The "recharging station" as I called it previously. But who knows, this process might be self initiated upon will once free of the matrices. As we will be fully connected to our "super self" upon "death" there may be an inbuilt mechanism within this super self to self-heal/recharge etc. I suspect becoming fully united with your super self (and so ultimiate SOURCE) would be equivalent to having a million reiki healing sessions in one go ?

When my Dad died for several days I was in telepathic empathy with his journey as he crossed over. Yes, this sounds whacked out but it is true. I felt I WASmy Dad, I was experiencing what he was experiencing. The beauty and peace of it was just magnificent. He was at once himself yet part of everything - like he was him, but he was also "God". Have you heard of the expression "terrible beauty" - this is what it felt like. It was INCREDIBLE.

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 05:38 PM
reply to post by cosmicpixie

There is also one more (sort of similar to yours):

You pick up just from where you were when you died. Life continues on different parts and spheres of the universe slowly progressing from the material level of existence to pure spiritual existence with an unlimited potential for personal development, which only in eternity can be fully realised...

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 05:40 PM
I don't think you always choose how you reincarnate, otherwise we'd all be making the same mistakes perhaps, there's gotta be higher consciousness', perhaps either working between the planets or whatever that choose the exact OPPOSITE of where we want to go.. in order to keep the gears of pain/pleasure/sudden knowing/utter confusion going within the cosmos. You cannot learn by yourself completely without the help of a benefactor "forcing" you to do that which you do not want to do..

like running away from your "negative" memories. The back burner has a knack for demanding your time and spiritual energy at the wrong times... which are right for it... I know, it's the price i pay continuously for not knowing what's best for me sometimes and flitting like a butterfly from subject to subject.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by thaknobodi]

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 05:41 PM

Originally posted by cosmicpixie
reply to post by bugasman

We are probably ready to listen to whatever is said by whoever meets us/guides us because we would assume they "knew more" as they are already "there" and might have been "there" a very long time.

So the problem is the other. We don't know the Truth because we don't think for ourselfs. Yeah, there are many influencing going on in us. We are constantly being bombarded with information. One says reincarnation is true, other that Bad Beings are in control of a reincarnation Matrix. What is the Truth? If there is something like Truth. I don't know. But why we believe in those things? Because we don't question, we never doubt the authority of another. I think you are the only one who have the answers for everything you want. But I prefer what your signature says, "CARPE DIEM".

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 05:57 PM
reply to post by bugasman

Maybe all of the options are true at the same time. I've read a good deal of Krishnamurti myself , he made a massive impact on me when I first came across his work (I was about 20 then so 16 yrs ago). We make our own realities as he was always talking about , so throw in the concept of thought forms and you can imagine similar thought forms from millions of different people gathering to create a reality outside of the physical which for all intents is "real" but is actually just a projection of sorts, self/mass created. All it takes is a seed for a plant to grow . So with this in mind I would suggest there is a lot more choice available to us in terms of what goes on when we cross over, how we proceed.

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 06:04 PM
reply to post by thaknobodi

If something or someone other than my own self tries to make me do something then they are abusing their power. I am my own authority, we all are as I see it.

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 06:08 PM
I've got to get to bed now - really tired . Thanks for all the interesting replies, I'll check in tomorrow to see how the discussion has developed. Night all

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 06:31 PM
I think, or like to believe, or prefer to believe, that when we die, our conscious continues on a higher plane, just like others here on the thread have stated. I think this is the growing spiritualism that most people embrace these days.

My belief is that our current conscious continues on, but when our physical body dies, we return to a higher plane, where we are able to communicate with out higher conscious. We can communicate with out higher conscious while we are physically living, but the signal is distorted.

I think we have three levels of consciousness. the trinity seems to be such a communal concept I think it is probably a natural state. To me, we live her in the physical plane, and so our conscious exits in the physical plane with our bodies. We also have an emotional conscious, which is our spirit. Then we have an intellectual conscious which is our soul. I think that only our soul has a chance at immortality.

Our physical conscious is too absorbed by the physical world, to communicate with our higher conscious, it is tied tightly to our physical sense of the world, which is an amazing place. Life is great thing to enjoy and to learn from.

Our spirit is more closing tied to our higher intellectual soul, but still tied to the physical world. Our spirit gives us our drive in life, our passion, it enables us to enjoy life. However, our spirit can be harmed, it can be broken, and it can be killed. This is why we have to look out for our emotional well being.

Our soul deals with further more distant, less recognizable areas of this world that our physical conscious has trouble grasping. The guidance provided by our higher conscious is usually passed down through instincts and emotions. It is our soul that guides us through the higher plane.

Physical life as we know it is very finite. Maybe in the next few generations they will unlock the secret to aging, and our grandchildren, or maybe even our children might be able to live several hundred years. I have heard many times that life is too short, but I didn't really get that until I hit my forties. It seemed like I was just getting my act together, only to have to start facing the long slow deterioration of my body.

The spirit, I feel, lives through several physical incarnations, and may live as long as the soul, but is vulnerable. . I could say more, but that is the important part.

Our soul is here on this physical plane for a purpose, which I believe it to learn and grow. In this physical plane is where we experiment with life. We live these lives with the purpose of growing into a better self on the higher plane. I don't think we die and go to heaven, I think we die and go to a higher plane where life is more complicated, but of course also has far greater possibilities.

Of course, there is always the possibility that when you die physically, your conscious dies, the memories are wiped, and the only thing left is the deeds you left behind.

Carpe Diem, is my new years resolution.

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 06:42 PM
Hmm I have been thinking about your "another way" ever since I've had a life changing experience. I have come to the conclusion that life must be limited to be fun from a God/Source perspective. So we need all those constrains and nature is doing that for us. I agree with you in the matter that I don't want those anymore. I want to be free to explore and not be bound to this planet forever.

I see some problems though.

1) How do I escape the forced incarnation? I don't know if I would be able to choose whatever I want. What I hope is that "they" need my consent and that any choice involving my return here would be because of their's persuasion tactics

2) What if I am able to free myself - but there someone here, I am connected with, that isn't?

Number 1 is simple. No choice means forced comeback.

Number 2 is tricky. At least for me. All my life I've known I'm waitting for someone. I've spend many years with that felling (along with a felling of impeding doom, but that's another story
). I've finally met that person. I've known that since the very first moment. The other side told me the same

That is why I am not sure if I would leave this dreaded cycle knowing that my beloved (whom I am almost 100% sure I've known in many other lives) is choosing to stay.

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 07:29 PM
reply to post by cosmicpixie

Hi cosmicpixie

I think this concept of being trapped in an endless cycle of reincarnation would actually be viewed differently once we return to the full consciousness of our spiritual form.

We view life here on earth as a very long time 70, 80, 90 years. This is because we measure our experiences by our biological existence with cycles i.e sun rise, sun set, seasons etc.

Without cycles or a measurements of time, our visits to a physical life could appear to have been nothing more than a blink of the eye.

Our spirit may perceive this as no more than laying down for a period, and reawakening moments later having lived an entire life here on earth.

Our existence in the spirit may feel as if it has been a long while between reincarnations, and our last reincarnation was long ago in our distant memory.

From the perspective of our eternal spirit, it is possible that a physical experience equates to no more than a 10min session in a virtual reality machine.

In a scenario such as this, there would be no need for us to carry with us our memories of an eternal life, and to bring that knowledge with us would most likely hinder our potential to learn.

If a physical life in third density is our only experience of duality, then it would defeat the object if we had total recollection.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by kennyb72]

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 07:41 PM
Reply to post by cosmicpixie

Some what I agree with you. Here is a good movie I think comes close to the truth IMHO that I highly recommend to you, "What dreams may come". Oh and look forward to the atheist crusader squad coming by to tell you how stupid and evil they you are.

Posted Via ATS Mobile:

posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 08:15 PM
reply to post by cosmicpixie

Very interesting OP. But what if your sole is not the same as your personality? Brain injuries can cause a complete change in ones personality, this is well documented. Personality is based on electrochemicals in the brain. Perhaps there is an under lying componant about the soal that affects your personality, but in a way you are unaware of. Mabey the personality are the construction tools, your soal is the building.

In some religions you must shed your personality for your soal to achieve nirvana. To achieve nirvana, you need to be free of the baggage that is our personality. Only then can you merge with the cosmic mind. We all know people though of normal intelligence, just "don't seem to get it". They seem to be soals that are less developed. I don't know what the connection is between soal and personality. There may not be one. Its been debated if our soals exist out side of our space time. It's not in one place or time.

I wonder if our personality casts a shadow that is the soal. Who knows.

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