Hugo Chavez says Haiti's earthquake due to American Weapon

In 1983 Bernard Estlund developed the patents for HAARP, from the research of Nikola Teslund, whose project devastated Tsungaka with one beam of blue light 1/10,000 the diameter of a human hair. That beam transmitted 10 megatons of energy. It takes 300 watts to create a 4.4 ricktor quake. What will 4.1 billion watts create.

Now let us power a woodpecker with the new Victory (9B watts each) in the primary pulse mode (12 levels from 2.0hz,+- .5 hz ) and see what will happen when the intersection point of a 4.1 billion watt haarp primary heater and a victory woodpecker coincide. Those TMT coils in Russia are not dormant,. The best way to hide something is to make it look abandoned. When these TMT coils can deflect the victory woodpeckers pulse, the damage will be phenomenal. All the PHDs in the world have no idea what will happen to the world when that occurs. Those in the DUMBS will not survive because we are all tied to this world due to our Schuman Resonance. Check out Dr Popps model of the human body. 1/10,000,0000,000 is what powers this bag of water and carbon based chemicals.

Let us not forget the deeds of sheldon prescott busch, the tenur of george herbert walker busch in persia in 1954, and 1981, and 1991. W did too much booze and coc aine to understand anything. these are just the puppets. The Pamyat will not put up with their bull#. The interesting question I have about the twin towers is not what caused it but what happened to those thousands of toilets. Destroying a crapper is not an easy task. Very interesting. I would appreciate an answer to that.

Blackflights are not the answer. Disease and pulse weapons leave little tracks but the evidence of induction magnetometer data and spectral density and electromagentic sidelobe attentuation and the colored residue are clear evidence. Three days warning is needed. Check out the actual financial reports of the US government.

Originally posted by Phage
You've ignored the first part of the paragraph. He is saying that what is real is that there are many smart people finding ways to wreak terror.

I most certainly did not 'ignore it' but i have drawn different conclusions as to the context you have presumed for the entire question.

The same thing is true about just the false scare of a threat of using
some kind of a chemical weapon or a biological one. There are some
reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to
construct something like an Ebola Virus, and that would be a very
dangerous phenomenon, to say the least. Alvin Toeffler has written
about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to
devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic-specific so
that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and
others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects
that can destroy specific crops. Others are engaging even in an
eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off
earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic
waves.

My emphasis. He is not saying that these reports are false but that investigating their authenticity is resource intensive and if they turn out to be false it would constitute a large drain or resources. The reports ARE there , enough for their investigation to possible consume resources of a magnitude worth mentioning publicly, and that's why intelligence operations are so very expensive and necessarily complex.

He never dismissed the possibility but at least we are sure you have reached your own conclusions based on the contextual assumptions that seems to best suit your, and admittedly humanity in generals, sanity; it's not that i don't understand where your coming from.

His entire response was specific to a question about a hoaxed attack.

As far as i can tell his entire response was a description of all the reported threats and how very difficult it was/is to allocate resources to uncover which is most dangerous ( or real) and most likely to be employed next.

He did not say these things are real, he said there are reports about attempts to develop such things. There is nothing in his statement which says these things are possible or even that he believes they are possible.

As you can see i disagree with your analysis but i can agree that his words hardly constitutes proof that such weapons are being used as often and on as large scale as i suggested. Either way there is nothing in his statement that suggests that these weapons and technologies have been shown to be false and i consider that at least as worrying ( considering how US intelligence services spend more money than everyone else put together) as your conclusions thus far.

Regards,

Stellar

reply to post by StellarX

Obviously we look at the statement differently.

My take is the first paragraph is referring to false attacks and false reports and rumors, and the second is saying that in spite of false attacks and false reports, the threat of terrorism in general is real and must be taken seriously (too bad no one seemed to be paying attention).

Maybe if there was a video of the conference we could tell more by his demeanor and intonation but without that it will have to remain ambiguous.





[edit on 1/29/2010 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
Obviously we look at the statement differently.

Yes we seem to but at least your response isn't as presumptive about my personal motives as mine manages to be about yours...

My take is the first paragraph is referring to false attacks and false reports and rumors, and the second is saying that in spite of false attacks and false reports, the threat of terrorism in general is real and must be taken seriously (too bad no one seemed to be paying attention).

Well it's not like there were no reports about planes being used in suicide attacks on various US targets..... It's all a question of focus and the focus seems not to be on defense of the US mainland , and the US citizenry, but on waging wars overseas against groups or nations that were at best angry and at worse mostly incapable of inflicting harm beyond their borders.

Maybe if there was a video of the conference we could tell more by his demeanor and intonation but without that it will have to remain ambiguous.

Maybe i am growing old, and thus tired of all the arguments, or maybe i am slowly starting to admit to myself that people can legitimately reach different conclusions ( based on the same information) than i have.

Neither are very appealing but i freely admit that i used to consider his statements to constitute more in the way of 'proof' than i do now. Hopefully the rest of the information i have to add to the discussion will show why i have not changed my mind about the technology and it's usage thus far.

Regards,

Stellar

I'm jumping in late on this thread, so if this has been brought up , my bad.

Hugo Chavez never made any statement accusing the US of the earthquake in Haiti.

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
I have never seen any serious evidence that the United States or any other country has a mechanism which can trigger an earthquake (although drilling a 50-mile deep hole near the San Andreas Fault and detonating a thermonuclear weapon in it might be a fun experiment).

Waves traveling through a solid medium can be either transverse waves or longitudinal waves. Yet waves traveling through the bulk of a fluid (such as a liquid or a gas) are always longitudinal waves. Transverse waves require a relatively rigid medium in order to transmit their energy. As one particle begins to move it must be able to exert a pull on its nearest neighbor. If the medium is not rigid as is the case with fluids, the particles will slide past each other. This sliding action which is characteristic of liquids and gases prevents one particle from displacing its neighbor in a direction perpendicular to the energy transport. It is for this reason that only longitudinal waves are observed moving through the bulk of liquids such as our oceans. Earthquakes are capable of producing both transverse and longitudinal waves which travel through the solid structures of the Earth. When seismologists began to study earthquake waves they noticed that only longitudinal waves were capable of traveling through the core of the Earth. For this reason, geologists believe that the Earth's core consists of a liquid - most likely molten iron.

www.glenbrook.k12.il.us...

Of two rays of light match each other perfectly in color, they can interact in a surprising way. Because all the crests of one wave have the same wavelength as the second ray the crests of the two waves can be lined up with each other. As each wave crest of one ray coincides with the crest of the other ray, the two amplitudes of the waves add up to twice the amplitude and the result is a single, much brighter light ray. This is called constructive interference. (Probably the only time when it is considered constructive to interfere!)

planetquest.jpl.nasa.gov...

Interferometry is the science and technique of superposing (interfering) two or more waves, which creates an output wave different from the input waves; this in turn can be used to explore the differences between the input waves. Because interference is a very general phenomenon with waves, interferometry can be applied to a wide variety of fields, including astronomy, fiber optics, optical metrology, oceanography, seismology and various studies of quantum mechanics. Interferometry can be applied to both one-dimensional waves such as time varying signals, or to multi-dimensional waves such as coherent images produced by laser illumination.

en.wikipedia.org...

So that then describes the mechanism by which 'energy' ( provided constructive interference takes place and standing waves results ) can be transmitted over distances and trough solid mediums such as the Earth to a specific area or even a specific point below the surface or in the atmosphere.

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...

The above link also shows how one can fundamentally, provided you have the resources, create low and high pressure regions; for those who do not know that's what you need to do to tinker with local weather patterns.

Earthquakes come from either the close passage of magma (i.e., on the slopes of an active volcano during eruptions) or from the interaction of tectonic plates deeper in the Earth's crust. No one has ever explained to me how an electromagnetic pulse (especially one aimed to the upper atmosphere like the HAARP device) can cause a shifting of trillions of tons of the Earth's crust, to say nothing of doing so in a way which will "aim" the resulting earthquake with pinpoint accuracy.

I am sure many people talked about pulses but obviously they have not spent much time trying to uncover how this all actually works. As for Earthquakes they are by no means 'pinpoint' events and if and when they seem to be questions can and should be asked.

The earthquake occurred directly under Tangshan at a depth of 8km (5 miles).

A magnitude 7.1 aftershock 15 hours later caused further destruction and killed many people trapped in collapsed buildings.

news.bbc.co.uk...

The large loss of life caused by the earthquake can be attributed to the time it struck and how suddenly it struck. The earthquake lacked the foreshocks that usually come with earthquakes of this magnitude. It also struck at just before 4 AM, leaving many people unprepared as they lay asleep.Tangshan itself was thought to be in a region with a relatively low risk of earthquakes. Very few buildings had been built to withstand an earthquake, and the city lies on unstable alluvial soil.

en.wikipedia.org...

28 July 1976

"Just before the first tremor at 3:42 am, the sky lit up like daylight. The multi-hued lights, mainly white and red, were seen up to 200 miles away. Leaves on many trees were burned to a crisp and growing vegetables were scorched on one side, as if by a fireball."

Some New Details on China's Quake

The night preceding the earthquake, July 27-28, many people reported seeing strange lights as well as loud sounds. The lights were seen in a multitude of hues. Some people saw flashes of light; others witnessed fireballs flying across the sky. Loud, roaring noises followed the lights and fireballs. Workers at the Tangshan airport described the noises as louder than that of an airplane.2

history1900s.about.com...

And since i can't help being conspiratorial.....

The Russian Woodpecker was a notorious Soviet signal that could be heard on the shortwave radio bands worldwide between July 1976 and December 1989. It sounded like a sharp, repetitive tapping noise, at 10 Hz, giving rise to the "Woodpecker" name. The random frequency hops disrupted legitimate broadcast, amateur radio, and utility transmissions and resulted in thousands of complaints by many countries worldwide.

en.wikipedia.org...

www.englishrussia.com... For pictures.....

Obviously one can not draw conclusions even with coincidences coincide, that would be very unscientific, i do find them hard to ignore. I am not suggesting that these could not or where not used in the AB OTH warning role but that it served as a useful cover for those standing wave patterns that existed to be used for other purposes.

Some colleagues, when questioned about the mechanism of such putative devices, smile knowingly and mention Nikola Tesla. Admittedly, Tesla was a brilliant (and unstable) engineer and inventor, but there is no evidence that he had a secret weapon or device which could do some of the things attributed to it (indeed, some of the so-called Tesla effects, like the Tunguska blast, have been thoroughly debunked).

Debunked? Yes, even NS 'debunked it. Not that i got the impression they were trying, as much as just mentioning it, as it seems so far fetched who would believe it?

There is another possible - if wildly improbable - cause of the mysterious event at Tunguska in 1908 (7 September, p 14). One of Nikola Tesla's great projects was the wireless transformation of energy over large distances. He believed that this could be harnessed in war to destroy incoming attacks from over 300 kilometres away.

Tesla built his "death ray" at Wardencliffe on Long Island, and it is a possible that he tested it one night in 1908. The story goes something like this. At the time, Robert Peary was trekking to the North Pole and Tesla asked him to look out for unusual activity. On the evening of 30 June 1908, Tesla aimed his death ray towards the Arctic and turned it on. Tesla then watched the newspapers and sent telegrams to Peary, but heard about nothing unusual in the Arctic.

However, he did hear about the unexplainable event in Tunguska, and was thankful no one was killed, as it was clear to him that his death ray had overshot. He then dismantled his machine, as he felt it was too dangerous to keep it. See www.parascope.com/en/1096/tesdeth.htm for the full story.

www.newscientist.com...

Someone else spent a lot of time on the Tunguska-Tesla connection so feel free to see how many 'coincidences' you can spot over here:

www.frank.germano.com...

Some of my own 'research' ( but i don't want to make days of online searches and reading sound very complex, as it really isn't) have revealed to me that energy transmission over distance is hardly as strange as often presumed and were demonstrated by Tesla long before his Wardencliffe Tower experiments.

US researchers have outlined a relatively simple system that could deliver power to devices such as laptop computers or MP3 players without wires.

The concept exploits century-old physics and could work over distances of many metres, the researchers said

The team from MIT is not the first group to suggest wireless energy transfer.

Nineteenth-century physicist and engineer Nikola Tesla experimented with long-range wireless energy transfer, but his most ambitious attempt - the 29m high aerial known as Wardenclyffe Tower, in New York - failed when he ran out of money.

Physics promises wireless power

Continued

Oh wait, their rediscovering the virtual wheel ( in terms of EM theory)more than a century later!

With high frequencies, Tesla developed some of the first neon and fluorescent illumination. He also took the first x-ray photographs. But these discoveries paled when compared to his discovery of November 1890, when he illuminated a vacuum tube wirelessly—having transmitted energy through the air.

www.pbs.org...

The development of wireless energy transfer began in earnest with the lectures and patents of the electrical engineer Nikola Tesla (and is described in his 1916 deposition on the history of wireless and radio technology). In experiments around 1899, Tesla was able to light gas discharge lamps (similar to neon signs) from over 25 miles away without using wires. Tesla used a high frequency current (Prodigal Genius, O'Neill; pg 193). During his experiments in Colorado, he lit ordinary incandescent lamps at full candle-power by currents induced in a local loop consisting of a single wire forming a square of fifty feet each side, which includes the lamps, and which was at a distance of one-hundred feet from the primary circuit energized by the oscillator (Century Magazine, June 1900).

en.wikipedia.org...

As far as i can tell these methods are different but if it's not just my ignorance it may illustrate that there are sadly more than one way of creating these devastating effects at a distance.

We are getting much better at measuring earthquakes and improving in our ability to predict them, but we simply can't trigger them, as much as some of the conspiracy theory people (and warmongers of various persuasions) would like us to.

Yes there are but i would not call myself a warmonger of any stripe. Either way i have plenty of remaining questions so you should have plenty of questions to ask me about how all of the above actually comes together in practice. I mean since it has not been widely admitted that it's possible , and no one will apologise to those who turn out to be right on the money, why should you bother discussing it at all? I have much sympathy with that view and that's why i don't create threads trying to 'prove' the existence of these weapons but do get irritated when people who have somehow managed to do even less research than myself take it upon themselves to dismiss it as fiction because they don't 'believe' it.

Probably the same type of people who had trouble believing in airplanes and nuclear weapons but yes, earthquake weapons and energy weapons are 'different' because physics as we now know it allegedly doesn't allow for it. If only what we knew ever proved to be the complete story it might serve us better.

Right.

Regards,

Stellar


[edit on 30-1-2010 by StellarX]

reply to post by StellarX

Your first quote is talking about mechanical waves, not electromagnetic waves. There are no similarities.

Your second quote is talking about how if you are looking at two flashlights held side by side, it's brighter (big surprise). Unless you are suggesting that HAARP has a nearby twin I don't see the relevance.

The phenomenon of earthquake lights was first recorded in 373 BC. Current theory is that they are a result of seismic activity, not a cause.
inamidst.com...

Tesla theorized about a "death ray" but the generator was never built. The Wardenclyffe tower was designed for use in communications and the wireless transmission of power. It was never completed. It is absurd to connect Tesla with the Tunguska blast. "Wildly improbable" is a charitable description of that story.

While Tesla did a lot of research with high frequency electricity, it can hardly be said that we are "rediscovering" EM theory that he developed. In fact, we know very much more about the behavior of electromagnetic energy that Tesla ever did. The "electromagnetic longitudinal waves" of his theories have never been found to exist.

While I've seen that statement about Tesla's "transmission" of power a distance of 40km in several places, I've never seen any verification of it. The results of his experiments at Colorado Springs are vague.

And finally, you're right. None of this has anything to do with HAARP. HAARP uses radar and HF radio waves to study the ionosphere. It doesn't transmit sound waves, it does not produce a "death ray", it cannot control weather, and it cannot cause earthquakes.

[edit on 1/30/2010 by Phage]

I'm in the belief that all this sorcha faal, chavez stuff is speculation bs. I am a little curious about these deleted records
thepowerhour.com...
However, I'm still not sure what that all means and if it has any relevance to the haiti earthquake.
Researching a little more the most I could find was this video explaining a bit.
www.youtube.com...

If Haarp didn't cause this.. The usa is definitely taking advantage of the situation. rather quickly. Anyone have some more info?

Hi Phage,

Originally posted by Phage
Your first quote is talking about mechanical waves, not electromagnetic waves. There are no similarities.

Well the point of bring it up was to show the general mechanism by which weapon effects could be achieved trough interferometry by means of EM or mechanical/compression waves.

Your second quote is talking about how if you are looking at two flashlights held side by side, it's brighter (big surprise). Unless you are suggesting that HAARP has a nearby twin I don't see the relevance.

The second link is about constructive interference, and the increased amplitude resulting from coherent waves and the possibilities that entails for atmospheric manipulation over distance. I mean what do you not understand about HAARP as ion-spheric 'heater'? Can you not at least accept that given sufficient magnitude in ability to manipulate the atmosphere trough pressure changes , resulting from heating, one is effectively changing at least local weather patterns and that the effect would only be limited by your capacity and interest to keep focusing the energy in certain areas?

The phenomenon of earthquake lights was first recorded in 373 BC. Current theory is that they are a result of seismic activity, not a cause.
inamidst.com...

Well known, yes. There isn't as far as i know anything knew about those and i certainly did not confuse cause with effect. What i am saying is that Tesla said in documented statements that these were the expected effects of employing his technologies as seismic/de weapons. Why were such effects observed in the aftermath of the Tungushka event when we know it wasn't seismic event?

Tesla theorized about a "death ray" but the generator was never built. The Wardenclyffe tower was designed for use in communications and the wireless transmission of power. It was never completed. It is absurd to connect Tesla with the Tunguska blast. "Wildly improbable" is a charitable description of that story.

You say 'wireless transmission of power' like it isn't dangerous. Are bullets attached to wires? Missiles? Would you classify lasers as the 'wireless' transmission of energy?

But at least i know where you, or perhaps rather refuse to,stand right?

While Tesla did a lot of research with high frequency electricity, it can hardly be said that we are "rediscovering" EM theory that he developed. In fact, we know very much more about the behavior of electromagnetic energy that Tesla ever did.

"As soon as [the Wardenclyffe facility is] completed, it will be possible for a business man in New York to dictate instructions, and have them instantly appear in type at his office in London or elsewhere. He will be able to call up, from his desk, and talk to any telephone subscriber on the globe, without any change whatever in the existing equipment. An inexpensive instrument, not bigger than a watch, will enable its bearer to hear anywhere, on sea or land, music or song, the speech of a political leader, the address of an eminent man of science, or the sermon of an eloquent clergyman, delivered in some other place, however distant. In the same manner any picture, character, drawing, or print can be transferred from one to another place ..." - Nikola Tesla, "The Future of the Wireless Art", Wireless Telegraphy and Telephony, 1908, pg. 67-71.

So why do we not have wireless energy power stations? Because you believe that it isn't possible despite the fact that he demonstrated it more than a hundred years ago? Is what we know just built on the same wrong foundations Tesla argued against back then? Is that why we do not have the technologies he suggested or , as you argued, because they are just not possible?

The "electromagnetic longitudinal waves" of his theories have never been found to exist.

Oh they are known to exist but as far as the Heaviside generalizations of Maxwell's ( yes, Tesla was working with the original Maxwell Diffrential equations) equations they are limited to very specific conditions.

Maxwell's equations lead to the prediction of electromagnetic waves in a vacuum, which are transverse (in that the electric fields and magnetic fields vary perpendicularly to the direction of propagation).[2] However, waves can exist in plasma or confined spaces. These are called plasma waves and can be longitudinal, transverse, or a mixture of both.[2][3] Plasma waves can also occur in force-free magnetic fields.

In the early development of electromagnetism there was some suggesting that longitudinal electromagnetic waves existed in a vacuum. After Heaviside's attempts to generalize Maxwell's equations, Heaviside came to the conclusion that electromagnetic waves were not to be found as longitudinal waves in "free space" or homogeneous media.[4] But it should be stated that Maxwell's equations do lead to the appearance of longitudinal waves under some circumstances in either plasma waves or guided waves. Basically distinct from the "free-space" waves, such as those studied by Hertz in his UHF experiments, are Zenneck waves.[5] The longitudinal mode of a resonant cavity is a particular standing wave pattern formed by waves confined in a cavity. The longitudinal modes correspond to the wavelengths of the wave which are reinforced by constructive interference after many reflections from the cavity's reflecting surfaces. Recently, Haifeng Wang et al. proposed a method that can generate longitudinal electromagnetic (light) wave in free space, and this wave can propagate without divergence for a few wavelengths.[6]

en.wikipedia.org...

His famous equations, in their modern form of four partial differential equations, first appeared in fully developed form in his textbook A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism in 1873. Most of this work was done by Maxwell at Glenlair during the period between holding his London post and his taking up the Cavendish chair.[48] Maxwell expressed electromagnetism in the algebra of quaternions and made the electromagnetic potential the centerpiece of his theory. In 1881 Oliver Heaviside replaced Maxwell’s electromagnetic potential field by ‘force fields’ as the centerpiece of electromagnetic theory. Heaviside reduced the complexity of Maxwell’s theory down to four differential equations, known now collectively as Maxwell's Laws or Maxwell's equations. According to Heaviside, the electromagnetic potential field was arbitrary and needed to be "murdered".[61] A few years later there was a great debate between Heaviside and Peter Guthrie Tait about the relative merits of vector analysis and quaternions. The result was the realization that there was no need for the greater physical insights provided by quaternions if the theory was purely local, and vector analysis became commonplace.[62]

en.wikipedia.org...

It can be said that modern EM theory has been 'butchered' for simplicities sake and since it's really still not simply what was the point of it all other than attemping to make things understandable and 'fit' into turn of the century notions of propriety?

So sorry for using wiki but frankly i am lazy and you should know better if not just a little more.

While I've seen that statement about Tesla's "transmission" of power a distance of 40km in several places, I've never seen any verification of it. The results of his experiments at Colorado Springs are vague.

The only vagueness i am very sure of is in your ability to check source material supplied for your easy attention.

en.wikipedia.org...

If that timeline, with all those sources, can't cure you of your source aversion then i will try something more drastic but hopefully the lights might go on for some others.

And finally, you're right. None of this has anything to do with HAARP. HAARP uses radar and HF radio waves to study the ionosphere. It doesn't transmit sound waves, it does not produce a "death ray", it cannot control weather, and it cannot cause earthquakes.

I am not sure if it could either as my information and sources mostly indicate that these weapons were and are employed USSR/RF. As for HAARP i'm confident it has weapons applications but i don't have any specific information linking it to any recent or older disasters....

Regards,

Stellar

reply to post by StellarX

Please provide a mechanism whereby electromagnetic waves can be converted to mechanical/compression waves in earth (or air for that matter).

I understand that HAARP is capable of heating a region of the ionosphere directly over the installation. I also understand that the region affected is at altitudes of 75km and higher. I also understand that weather occurs at altitudes of 20km and less. I also understand that the atmosphere is generally regarded to end altogether at about 100km. HAARP cannot affect weather, neither directly above Gakona nor anywhere else.

I would be interested in seeing Tesla's theories about earthquake lights but I have no reason to believe that he would have known anything more about them than today's geologists do.

Tesla's idea of a directed energy beam would have been dangerous but it was not related his dream of wireless electricity. He theorized broadcast electrical power. Broadcasted energy is not the same as directed energy. Directed energy beams (i.e. lasers and particle beams) are being developed but HAARP is neither of these. Your quote about Wardenclyff has nothing to do with either the wireless transmission of electricity or of directed energy. It is about radio. Radio is not the same thing as the wireless transmission of electricity. We do not have wireless electricity because it is unbelievably inefficient.

No, "scalar waves" are not known to exist. They exist only in theory (obsolete theory). Electromagnetic waves, on the other hand have been shown to exist. Plasma waves exist...in plasma. Air is not plasma. Plasma waves do not travel through air.

It cannot be said that EM theory has been "butchered". Maxwell's equations describe the behavior of electromagnetic radiation as it exists.

Please provide a source for the success of Tesla's experiments at Colorado Springs. I can find no such source in the Wikipedia link you have provided. But maybe you should have read it a little more carefully.

Many properties of the earth-ionosphere cavity that have subsequently been mapped in great detail were unknown to Tesla, and a consideration of the earth-ionosphere or concentric spherical shell waveguide propagation parameters as they are known today shows that wireless energy transfer by direct excitation of a Schumann cavity resonance mode is not realizable. "The conceptual difficulty with this model is that, at the very low frequencies that Tesla said that he employed (1-50 kHz), earth-ionosphere waveguide excitation, now well understood, would seem to be impossible with the either the Colorado Springs or the Long Island apparatus (at least with the apparatus that is visible in the photographs of these facilities)."

en.wikipedia.org...

So, you are confident that HAARP has weapons capability but you have no evidence or reason for that confidence. How nice.


[edit on 2/3/2010 by Phage]

You're always so sure of yourself, Phage. Perhaps you could give more detail on some assertions you're happy to make...

Originally posted by Phage

I understand that HAARP is capable of heating a region of the ionosphere directly over the installation. I also understand that the region affected is at altitudes of 75km and higher. I also understand that weather occurs at altitudes of 20km and less. I also understand that the atmosphere is generally regarded to end altogether at about 100km. HAARP cannot affect weather, neither directly above Gakona nor anywhere else.

How do you know?

Tesla's idea of a directed energy beam would have been dangerous but it was not related his dream of wireless electricity.

Not that it's important, but how do you know this? Surely the only way is to know exactly how Tesla conceptualised both ideas, which only Tesla himself could have spoken about.

He theorized broadcast electrical power. Broadcasted energy is not the same as directed energy.

This statement is not as informative, or definitive, as it looks.

Directed energy beams (i.e. lasers and particle beams) are being developed but HAARP is neither of these.

No. It's based on directing energy at the ionosphere. This is the very least we can say about it.

So, you are confident that HAARP has weapons capability but you have no evidence or reason for that confidence. How nice.

Well, the intelligence community seem to think that it's at least capable of providing intelligence about underground sites...

Global Security article about HAARP

This transmitter in Alaska, besides providing a world class research facility for ionospheric physics, could allow earth- penetrating tomography over most of the northern hemisphere. Such a capability would permit the detection and precise location of tunnels, shelters, and other underground shelters.

Now one of the names most connected with the HAARP patents is Bernard Eastlund... there's an interesting article from Wired:

One of the first ideas came mid-decade from Bernard Eastlund, a physicist working for oil-and-gas conglomerate Atlantic Richfield. Arco had the rights to trillions of cubic feet of natural gas under Alaska's North Slope. The problem had always been how to get that gas to the port at Valdez. Eastlund had a better idea: Use the gas onsite to fuel a giant ionospheric heater. Such a facility, he wrote in a series of patents, could fry Soviet missiles in midflight or maybe even nudge cyclones and other extreme weather toward enemies. That's right: weaponized hurricanes.

So... if the people most connected with it think it had weapons capability, and if the USAF is still funding it, which I believe to be the case, then those are two good reasons for thinking it has got weapons capability.

How nice.

[edit on 9-2-2010 by rich23]

Whoops, missed this...

Originally posted by Phage

Please provide a mechanism whereby electromagnetic waves can be converted to mechanical/compression waves in earth (or air for that matter).

Piezoelectric effect

I mean, this has been bandied about earlier in the thread, were you not paying attention? From my own experience, piezo contacts are used all the time in amplifying musical instruments. As is noted in the reference, the effect is reversible.

reply to post by rich23

Piezoelectric effects are produced by electricity, electromagnetic energy is not electricity, it has no charge. In order to produce Piezoelectric effects there must be an electrical field.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


Well, if anyone remembers or even slightly glanced over Nikola Tesla's work back in the "Westinghouse" days he was working on the "Egg of Columbus" which was reported to have caused an earthquake in New York.

No one can truly say there is any confirmation that it was artificially induced. I could possibly see it being so since so much money in tectonic plate research has been generously granted over the decades.

Hugo is with out doubt the biggest ass h*** on the planet. The man is a fool. Any one with any psy. training what so ever will take two seconds to figure out he is reality challenged. How this baffoon, this clown got to run a country is beyound me.

reply to post by arbiture


OK, I'm stunned. What did I say that was so awfull?

We do not have a machine that can start earthquakes, they say it was an underground hydrogen bomb.
We do however have a machine that can mess with the weather. HAARP & HIPAS

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Except it's not "Mr. Crazypants", it's a state-owned television station. Fox is claiming that it's a "Chavez mouthpiece" and thus implicitly attributing the quote to Chavez, but this is actually not the case. Further, Fox insists that the google cache retains the video, but again, this is not the case.

Basically we have an American propaganda outlet making a collection of unverifiable allegations that just happen to coincide with that propaganda outlet's direction. Go figure.