Since when did deep thinkers become the crazy people?

Religion is a crutch for some, me I'll stick with pot. At least it doesn't tell me I'm a bad person.

Sorry for continuing along religious lines of conversation, but Buddhism seems to me one of the more enlightened religions. One of the first requirements of the religion is an open and intellectual mind for the critical reasoning required to discern whether their ancient texts should be considered literal or metaphorical.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by JunoJive]

Latley I feel like it IS some kind of zombie outbreak, lol......mental zombies that is.

I swear, breaking out of the box even the slightest, and the all turn on you. I am starting to think my family is all completely nuts....

They, the alcoholic, angry, bitter cowd, have serious problems with the simplest things, like me eating too MANY fruits and vegetables, and apparently not enough meat, because we only have chicken 3 times a week, and beef only once, because of how long it takes for digestion, and they are all having anurisms over it......and God forbid you don't want a glass of wine at the dinner table.....they all start hissing behind your back! lol......

Imagine if I got into any of the juicy stuff if fruits and veggies are so taboo!

[edit on 22-1-2010 by mellisamouse]

Originally posted by YouAreDreaming

Originally posted by ThePublicSpirit
That's fine, as long as you are REALLY holding a cup in your hand.

Is it ok if the cup is in my hand during a dream where I am fully awake and aware that I am dreaming. Yet I drink from this cup regardless of if it is real or not and still enjoy the taste of tea?

That's fine.
It just seems like an awful lot of mental masturbation, when you have some tea right in yer cabinet.
But, then again, all the spiritual masters always end up coming full circle anyway, no matter how far they travel while looking for "experience".
They realize that they have always been happier right where they truly are. And, they always seem to end up teaching that all the "best tasting tea", is always right in your real world cabinet, and always has been.

Religions are ALL lies. Every single religion on this planet is a COMPLETE LIE.

Any religion that is based on PROFIT = LIE!!!

90% of the things they say Jesus said, he didn't even say.

And I hope everyone knows that the bible has been edited like 50 times within the past 100 years. What does that tell you?

Are you sure it's been 2,000 since the bible was written? I think peoples' minds are still 2,000 years old. I'm actually surprised people have the brain capacity today to walk down the street to buy food.

the example your gave is a clear sign of crazyness since the guy is trying to explain and understand a book that was written by some random guy

I mean, thats crazy ... its crazy enough to think the book is telling the truth about the world, imagine thinking that the imaginary world of the book is the contrary ... LOL

its so crazy I am going now ... good luck

Originally posted by Emerald The Paradigm
Religions are ALL lies. Every single religion on this planet is a COMPLETE LIE.

Any religion that is based on PROFIT = LIE!!!

90% of the things they say Jesus said, he didn't even say.

And I hope everyone knows that the bible has been edited like 50 times within the past 100 years. What does that tell you?

Are you sure it's been 2,000 since the bible was written? I think peoples' minds are still 2,000 years old. I'm actually surprised people have the brain capacity today to walk down the street to buy food.

There are substantial nuggets of truth in every ancient religion, you just have to sift through the garbage to find them. Similar to trying to draw useful information from the rantings of a mad man.

Originally posted by Alethea

Christians are being taught that they were given a Great Commission to go ye therefore and convert all nations. They believe that their god has bestowed dominion of the earth on them, the "faithful". ("Faithful" to man-made traditions and the whims of religious leaders.) Most all lands have now been prostelytized and the leaders are informing them that "time is up." People have had a chance to "hear the word"; it has been made available earth wide. Those who choose not to go along with their program are now scheduled to be "taken out" of the way. They want their Kingdom Now.

Wow!
i don't know where you guys are getting your information from, but at some point, you might want to look into the possibility that you are victims of disinformation, brainwashing and manipulation.

Or, maybe you guys are just watching those Evangelical programs even more than the Christians are. Because, these pictures you are painting, just, plain, aren't happening.

reply to post by CHA0S


I'm not going to argue with you.
50 paragraphs of hate, are 50 paragraphs of hate.
Regardless of how you are dressing it, prefacing it, or describing it.
Whether it was directed at Christians, Jews, Flat-Earthers, or Basset Hounds.
There is nothing "Deep" about it.
Which proves my point. That just because somebody wants to tell themselves that they are having sane, positive, rational, intelligent thoughts, does not make it so.

Originally posted by CHA0S
For example, I was on yahoo answers recently

This is where I understood where you were coming from.
Yahoo answers is some what of a joke. I mostly see fairly simple questions on there. Questions that don't require a "deeply thought" explanation, because the main people that go there just need a quick and "simple" answer, and since Google can sometimes find the exact question people type, yahoo answers is a one stop source.
You can see how a close minded undereducated individual would think they are irrefutable on a site like yahoo answers.
As far as the whole scientist getting rejected for "out there" views. All can say is in that field, majority rules - Scientific Community.

People are inherently ignorant. In Buddhism, this is even reaffirmed. Now, ignorance is not stupidity, ignorance is the lack of knowledge. Stupidity is when ignorance is accepted as a train of thought.

We have always been like this. Always. It has NEVER changed, or at least it has been like this. Perhaps it is mostly just in western society circa I don't know, the dark ages. ANYONE that was an intellectual, ANYONE who questioned the orthodoxy of anything, was pushed to the fringe of society. Thrown out of the group. It is still like this. It isn't ALWAYS like this in humanity, because, like I said, some beliefs and schools of thought put wisdom on the top of their food chain. And even then, you have mother#ing SOCRATES being put to death in ancient GREECE.

In this current society, it is still pushed to the fringe. You aren't taught any philosophy in school (most, anyways). When I was 14 I first started reading some Plato and studying Socrates, and the most amazing thing still to this day that I have ever taken from anything was Socrates stance on knowledge: "All I know is that I know nothing". Holy #, just look at that! It is so deep! All I know is that I know nothing. This is fact! You know by not knowing! How can you know something without not knowing it in the first place? How can we say we know ANYTHING when the extent of what there is to know is UNKNOWN!?! It's like trying to solve the largest jigsaw puzzle you can imagine, with pieces of all shapes and sizes, with no guide or picture of what it is suppose to look like, and without even the god damn FRAME of the picture up!

Terence McKenna had quite a lot to speak on the subject as well. My favorite quote (because there is no best quotes for him, everything that came out of that mans mind was amazing) is this: "If you believe something, you're automatically precluded from believing in the opposite, which means that a degree of your human freedom has been forfeited in the act of this belief."

We have forfeited our freedom for ages. We gave our freedom to DOGMA. Religious dogma, scientific dogma, academic dogma, political dogma, societal dogma...we are not free. We are not born free. Freedom, TRUE freedom as I am illustrating here, is not the liberation of people from the tyranny of another, but the liberation of ourselves from our physical perceptions and our placement in space-time. Your EGO, is your true enemy. The ego is the most binding force known to man. The EGO, is what takes freedom away.

And now, we live in an age in which information can flutter nigh-instantaneously from one edge of the world to another, an age in which this information can be stored nigh-indefinitely for any to access, and yet we still live in a world of stupidity. Because our ego is embraced, thus embracing ignorance, to embracing dogma, and the final stage, is the embrace of stupidity. Our culture THRIVES on it. The NWO exists because of it and maintains this. It's a sad thing.

Yet as I said, the true enemy is the ego. One individual can not destroy another individual's ego. It is a personal pursuit. It is a discipline and an art. Each and every individual destroys the ego differently. It requires personal experience. If a skeptic sees, plain as day, a UFO, they will go from a skeptic to a believer. If an Atheist sees Jesus manifest in front of him, he will go from an Atheist to a Christian. This is how it works. This is what I discovered, and the truest wisdom someone has. It might suck to think this...but # everyone else.

I end with this; The Clever Man Tells, the Wise Man Knows Quietly. The Wise Man may ask questions, and present arguments, but this is just to build himself. The Clever Man can do both as well, but he does it to build the view others have of him.

Age has nothing to do with this, by the way. I'm 19. Wisdom does not come with age, and it does not come with an abundance of experience. Rather, it comes with a sharp dissection on your experiences.

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by ThePublicSpirit

 

And, I have some bad news for certain people on this site. It might be prudent to just wait a while before posting an idea.
Maybe until the morning.
Or, at least until the drugs or booze wears off.

Yep...because all mind altering drugs used in anyway are BAD BAD BAD aren't they? AREN'T THEY?!? They couldn't ever possibly open and expand a mind allowing them to experience deep and complex thought patterns and mind blowing alternate states of consciousness which a normally functioning mind couldn't even begin to comprehend...I'm not promoting drugs...it's just something to think about...but obviously I'm going to be called a stupid crazy fool by others who "know" mind altering drugs could never be of such benefit...

[edit on 22/1/10 by CHA0S]

Any tool, in the hands of the unstable, unintelligent, evil or untrained, just ends up being a "hammer".
Recent generations have convinced themselves that their use of mind altering substances is comparable to the uses that spiritual leaders and medicine men have exercised in the past.
It isn't the same.
Some kids or adults, using drugs, with no tradition, foundation, training or spiritual support, is not the same. It can't be compared.

That's the difference between "drug use" and Opening the Mind/Spirit, etc., through mind altering substances.

Some guy that watched some drug movies, read a couple books, and discusses drugs with his friends, then goes off, takes some acid, and writes a thread, does not qualify as a valid, learned, spiritual seeker on a Spirit Walk.

reply to post by juveous

As far as the whole scientist getting rejected for "out there" views. All can say is in that field, majority rules - Scientific Community.

My point is, all areas of society are like this...if you are an out-of-the-box thinker who has the ability to question and examine things on a deeper level you are immediately cast aside and labeled as a crazy person - because majority rules, and the majority are mindless robots...and as another poster said - I'm surprised they have the brain power to walk to the shops and buy food sometimes. Sometimes the stupidity, greed and selfishness shown by the majority of people is too overwhelming for my soul to handle...and I feel the need to get very far away from this place...but I'm not going to give into these feelings because I'm mentally stronger then that and will never let them win...

reply to post by ThePublicSpirit

50 paragraphs of hate, are 50 paragraphs of hate.
Regardless of how you are dressing it, prefacing it, or describing it.

It was actually 2 paragraphs...and it wasn't "dressed" in anyway...it was an EXAMPLE of something I noticed on the internet which was useful in making my point on which this topic is about - and that topic isn't putting crap on Christians...so please, just go take some deep breaths...I'm sure God will be happy with your attempt to defend his honor......jks...

[edit on 22/1/10 by CHA0S]

reply to post by JunoJive

Religion is a crutch for some, me I'll stick with pot.-JunoJive

It just can't be any kind of pot, it has to be dank. Usually that sticky stuff makes me forget about all the things that don't matter. Like Politics!

Originally posted by ThePublicSpirit
That's fine.
It just seems like an awful lot of mental masturbation, when you have some tea right in yer cabinet.
But, then again, all the spiritual masters always end up coming full circle anyway, no matter how far they travel while looking for "experience".
They realize that they have always been happier right where they truly are. And, they always seem to end up teaching that all the "best tasting tea", is always right in your real world cabinet, and always has been.

Oh don't read too much into my metaphorical chit chat. The essence of what I am saying is that where there is consciousness; there is experience.

We are conscious of this right now, so it brings to us this experience.

When in a dream, and conscious, it brings to our awareness an experience.

To simplify; be conscious and enjoy the experience.



[edit on 22-1-2010 by YouAreDreaming]

Originally posted by Emerald The Paradigm
Religions are ALL lies. Every single religion on this planet is a COMPLETE LIE.

Any religion that is based on PROFIT = LIE!!!

90% of the things they say Jesus said, he didn't even say.

And I hope everyone knows that the bible has been edited like 50 times within the past 100 years. What does that tell you?

Are you sure it's been 2,000 since the bible was written? I think peoples' minds are still 2,000 years old. I'm actually surprised people have the brain capacity today to walk down the street to buy food.

You sound miserable.
Maybe you need to erase EVERYTHING you have ever been taught about all religions, and yourself, start off with a clean mental slate, and do some research.
On your own.
Just you, and, whatever is out there. Even if it is nothing.
Remember, some stuff is told to people, just to make us feel bad. And, that can come from religions, people against religions, science, our families, ourselves, etc.

I will tell you what I believe: There is something that whispers to us when we need it. Maybe it is God. Maybe it is instinct. Racial memory. The vibration of subatomic particles. Who knows.

But, i think it happens. And, I don't think it is a bad thing.

And, it seems to whisper most, when we can get a little bit quiet, and a little bit still. And, shut some crap out of our heads.

reply to post by SpectreDC


Excellent Post.

Originally posted by YouAreDreaming

Originally posted by ThePublicSpirit
That's fine.
It just seems like an awful lot of mental masturbation, when you have some tea right in yer cabinet.
But, then again, all the spiritual masters always end up coming full circle anyway, no matter how far they travel while looking for "experience".
They realize that they have always been happier right where they truly are. And, they always seem to end up teaching that all the "best tasting tea", is always right in your real world cabinet, and always has been.

Oh don't read too much into my metaphorical chit chat. The essence of what I am saying is that where there is consciousness; there is experience.

We are conscious of this right now, so it brings to us this experience.

When in a dream, and conscious, it brings to our awareness an experience.

To simplify; be conscious and enjoy the experience.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by YouAreDreaming]

I know where you were coming from.
The conversation just brought some nice memories and readings to mind for me.
About being "still", and glad to be where you are. Especially after a lot of seeking.
Sitting on the dusty ground, and just being grateful for how simple that moment is.
If you know what I mean.

Originally posted by ThePublicSpirit
I know where you were coming from.
The conversation just brought some nice memories and readings to mind for me.
About being "still", and glad to be where you are. Especially after a lot of seeking.
Sitting on the dusty ground, and just being grateful for how simple that moment is.
If you know what I mean.

Absolutely, we are all students of reality, and all students of the "self". What we learn and struggle with is self-similar to each other. I'm no prophet, sage or philosopher, just one who dreams, and enjoys the art of dreaming suffice to say, reality from my perspective is also a type of dream; a dream that lasts a lifetime.

It's all just hands in the same jar just some think the jar is Jesus, others think it's physics, some just think it is what it is and others just want what ever they can take from the jar and could care less who they kill getting it.

The human condition is a bitch.

reply to post by SpectreDC


I want to add some more to this actually, considering some of the posts added to this topic as I was posting, mostly in regards to entheogens.

First off, yes, to gather anything truly useful from these substances, you need to have a disciplined approach to it. Just like any method used by psychonauts, such as meditation, sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation, or fasting. You can not cultivate anything from these without discipline. But it does not necessarily require intimate knowledge of past traditions to do so, because I said, to use these traditions as a crutch to any sort of enlightenment, you are stopping yourself from seeing what is not taught in these traditions.

Dropping acid your first time won't teach you much, but what it can do is weaken your ego, destroy cultural values you had, and open your physical senses and your mental senses to phenomenon not typically seen in the normal consciousness. It can also open the door to you to searching for that discipline, and developing it. It all has to do with your preconceived notions, really, and true discipline in these pursuits requires one to destroy those notions. You can't be enlightened solely from taking an entheogen, or using meditation, but rather they merely help one find the doors to enlightenment. And it isn't just one door; you go through one door, and a multitude of doors await you, and behind those doors lie yet another multitude of doors. The truth of the matter though, is that many of these doors can lead one to finding that final doorway of enlightenment in ones mind. But doing massive amounts of psychedelics can gain you as much as not doing any psychedelics at all.

I do certainly believe, though, that in some form or matter, you do need to change your consciousness and destroy the ego. But as I listed, you can do so from meditation, or fasting, or sensory deprivation. The reason being is because they weaken the ego, which as I said in my first post, is the root cause of all ignorance.

Don't take this thinking that once you hit ego death, you are enlightened; ego death merely presents oneself a new viewpoint in things that you have experienced first hand, and only presents more doors to be open. Trust me, I have all but destroyed, desecrated and cast away my ego, and there are still doors for me to open and hallways of doors to explore.

And on religion, a Zen master once said religion can be explained quite simply; a finger pointing to the moon. The finger is the religions dogma, its rituals and symbolism, while the moon is the truth the religion is trying to show. The moon is the spirituality, the truth, "god" and so forth of the religion, and in my belief, all religions point to the same moon. The fingers are all different, and they may describe the moon in different terminology, but it is the same truth. The problem with religion, is the finger. People fixate on the finger. They believe that by keeping a sharp eye on the finger it will lead them to the moon. What they neglect to see is that, between the two extremes, the finger and the moon, is a great distance, and THAT, is the true purpose of religion that has so horribly been neglected. The pathway the finger tries to present.

It is possible after time, some forces, human or otherwise, have tried to move or have even successfully moved that finger to fool people from the truth, but the truth IS out there, and it can be acquired with a keen mind, strong spirit, and true heart.

reply to post by SpectreDC

People are inherently ignorant. In Buddhism, this is even reaffirmed. Now, ignorance is not stupidity, ignorance is the lack of knowledge. Stupidity is when ignorance is accepted as a train of thought.

You have put it perfectly and have said exactly what needed to be said. I couldn't agree with you more, and this very fact is my greatest worry - society is embracing ignorance.

When I was 14 I first started reading some Plato and studying Socrates, and the most amazing thing still to this day that I have ever taken from anything was Socrates stance on knowledge: "All I know is that I know nothing". Holy #, just look at that! It is so deep!

Read my signiture - I have some very similar statements...they are very profound perspectives and mean a lot to me - the reason for them being in my sig.

Age has nothing to do with this, by the way. I'm 19. Wisdom does not come with age, and it does not come with an abundance of experience. Rather, it comes with a sharp dissection on your experiences.

I am also 19 years old...I truly never imagined I would meet a person my age with such an advanced level of understanding. You impress me sir.

reply to post by ThePublicSpirit

Excellent Post.

Yes, it was an excellent post...probably one of the best replies yet...and was actually ON TOPIC...I hope you now see what the topic of this thread is...and how my example was not an attack on Christians...it may be insulting to some Christians...but it was not meant as an attack...

I will tell you what I believe: There is something that whispers to us when we need it. Maybe it is God. Maybe it is instinct. Racial memory. The vibration of subatomic particles. Who knows.

But, i think it happens. And, I don't think it is a bad thing.

And, it seems to whisper most, when we can get a little bit quiet, and a little bit still. And, shut some crap out of our heads.

Maybe it's God...but who knows? Exactly...you're spot on...that's my problem with religion...we really can't know anything for sure...and as another poster stated...the bible has been changed so much over time...even if it was the word of God in the first place there's just now no way of pulling truth from the lies...and therefore we can't trust any of it...yet people go around claiming their religion is THE right one and has all the answers and could help save yor soul...I could go on forever...but before you reply...please read this thread to understand my entire view on religion:

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!

[edit on 22/1/10 by CHA0S]