This is reality, this is hell, this is our life (video)

reply to post by Enuma Elish


Damn I know exactly how you feel! For a while, I'll use my mother as an example, when I'd see her I'd try and explain the things going on around the world and such and she'd just tell me she doesn't want to listen to it because she is fine living her upper-middle class life and not worrying about what is really going on behind the curtains.

Well that's changed now, because of me especially. Now she is more open minded and actually will sit down and hear me out and see what I have to say, and she is even getting into some spiritualism books I have which she borrowed from me. I'm so happy about it I feel like I am actually making a difference.

Now think about it, if we all did this, turned one person from walking around and living their life with their eyes closed and made them open them and realize the actual reality we are living in the world would change very quickly!

We should have a national (well it would obviously never be official ha) "Awake the Sheeple" day once a year or something like that. But honestly we should be living every day like that; trying to show people the truth even if it may hurt. This is not about fear mongering this is about helping everyone succeed in life and help us all progress as the human race. We could be much more evolved than we are today if people just opened their damn eyes!

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by colloredbrothers

 

Um, quite b*tching? Basically, yea. Now don't get me wrong, unpatternized life is fun. But let me walk you though why your argument is... well... dumb.


Let's visit the world best symbolized by pre-apocalyptic rapture from bio shock. Every worker was free to use their creativity and keep the things their labor owns. Basically, a capitalistic utopia working for the betterment of the commune. Ok, great. Everyone does their own thing. But what does that do? Artists draw, scientists research, and programmers program. You change nothing. People who like to draw do nothing but draw, over and over again. Writers write over and over again. If you want something new? Do it. You'll do it over and over again until it's boring. One of the reasons that hypothetical setting collapsed is because everyone was free to do whatever they liked without limits. And that'd great. But rather than encourage humanity, the ultimate end point was the elimination of humanity. People became monsters as they attempted perfection. All the long failing to realize that perfection and humanity run in direct contradiction to each other.

The simple fact is that life sucks. You do what you like, and you do it over and over again. If you want humanity in your labor, that's great too. But people want what they want and they want it now. You'll instantly be out competed.

Sorry everybody, but this video tries to construct a life with no patterns as something good. When in fact a life with no repetition or patterns collapses onto itself. If you go to work when you want to and don't listen to the rules, all that happens is that the people who like what they do come in, the people who don't get fired. Then they degrade. There becomes a sprinkle down effect, until the most lazies people end up with nothing, die, and are forgotten. It is, in its essence, capitalistic eugenics. Sorry to tell you, but there are many people in this world who do not want to do anything but chillax and play games and do enough work to afford food and new games. And while they are nothing more than a leech, they will not change their ways. Why? Because they ARE doing what their good at. There's just no job in it.

No everyone is a laborer, not everyone wants you, and not everything you do can be useful. There are people in this world who have no skills but the repetitious nature of typing, printing, etc etc. And yes they still have worth, but they can do no more. Maybe they have some skills, but under the described system in the video, they simply will not be possible to do what they like.

The system described in the video would have "to each their own". In essence, this does not work. Because if 20 people want pretty pictures, but there's 50 artists, then very simply, 30 artists will be out of a job and have to do something they do not want.

The system above is simply purely secular capitalistic utopianism. It doesn't work. It's one extrema that ALWAYS leads to the opposite extrema: all the poor and jobless rebel and fight for their right to live, and the creative perfect people go leave to somewhere else.


Not to endorse a product, but Andrew Ryan already failed at attempting this system:

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 20-1-2010 by Gorman91]


Sorry to tell everyone this, but Life's a b*tch, then you die.

[edit on 20-1-2010 by Gorman91]

The reason why there is no humanity in labor is because we manufacture in large quantities, why? Because the guys on top want more money, so they advertise and try to get everyone adicted to materialism. And so the workers must labor hard for the deadline to be reached because the big man upstairs needs his money and the small man down stairs needs his wistles and bells.

When my dad is working, he gets very agitated, very nervous and stressy up to the point that I don't like him anymore. But when he is on vacation or is at home for a few days I can see that the true essence of my father is good and calm man, but yet I will see a totally diffrent man in his working days. Why? Because people are putting stress on themselves we make systems where everything must go fast must be perfect and if you don't preform there are people waiting to get the job. There is no humanity in work, and there should be because working keeps us alive, but at the same time it is killing us.

About lazy people, people that don't have jobs don't feel that they are responsible for there own actions, they feel as if they will be taken care of by the governement or social insitutions. Thats why we have lazy people, once you strip him away from security he will be left to fend for himself and he will learn that he is responsible for his own life.

About doing what you like to do, I'm not saying that everyone should do what they like to do, but people should feel good in there jobs, and even if you don't follow your dream work can be pleasant and doesn't need to be hell like it is in most cases now. People with lower graded labor will not have to feel less then anyone else, there is something essential we humans have to understand that doing something, even if it is cleaning the toilet it is not shamefull because for a society to function correctly people need to know there place and be comfretble on what they do.

I don't claim I have the perfect system or this video shows the perfect society, what it does is it shows an alternative, that we can work on, and improve. Because a society has to be healthy from the ground up.

If people are overal more happy the society will automaticly be better. If we would only produce less or export less everyrhing would be fine, we wouldn't have as much as we do, but frankly we don't need as much as we do now.

I know that, you know that and the earth definitly knows that.

people need to be more humble and less greedy and be happy with what they have. This can only be achieved by changing there mindset of competition to one that is holistic, and intelligent.

continued...

[edit on 20-1-2010 by colloredbrothers]

Story:

There was this old fisher man that would live in a litle hut, next to a river, all by himself. This man would go out with his litle boat everyday and would go to the river to catch some fish for his dinner, he would always catch enough to eat so he would trhow back fish in to the river if he felt that he didn't need them. He was living a calm and happy life.

One day a "civilized western buisnissman" comes up to him and asks: "why are you trhowing those fish back in to the river?" and the old man replied: "because I have enough fish to eat"

The buisniss man then told him that he should catch all the fish he could and sell them for a price to the local population. This would provide the old fisher man with an income with which he could buy a bigger boat and better fishing gear which in term would lead to more fish and maybe even a staff of fisher men with more boats and more fish.

The old man asks: "but why would I want to do this?"

buisnisman: "This way you have alot of money and you can retire from your job and have a calm and happy life in a remote area fishing for pleasure and resting out for the rest of your life"

buisnisman: (looks surpirsed after he said that sentence, laughs, pats the fisher on the shoulder and sat next to him, both looking at the falling sun)



the moral of the story simply is that we can be happy with less, we just don't know it.

[edit on 20-1-2010 by colloredbrothers]

Originally posted by Jazzyguy

Originally posted by colloredbrothers

Yes very true, the problem lies deep withen the system we live in. It is the roots that are rotten and the fruits that it brings with it are also rotten. Everything negative that happens out of our society, wheter it be suicides or people gone crazy shooting up the place it is all the result of what is corrupt.

You can't grow nice vegetables on an incomptible soil. We don't feel good with what we do and who we are, and we don't know why. Life can be better, and even though some people might think that this utopian view of less work more fun isn't possible to obtain, but it is. It is simply because we have never seen such a system that it seem incomprihensible.

Just like Winston (1984) that doesn't remember how life was before the revolution that he doesn't know if the way he is living now is good or bad, because he can't compare his situation to anything else. But he keeps feeling that somehting isn't right.

It's the same with us humans, we know that the way we live isn't natural isnt inuitive, we feel that things can become better (and they can!!) but then some people come along and smack the whole vision down with a pesimistic sentence like: "it will never happen" or "Stop dreaming, this is reality".

It's like we don't want a better life or we absolutly believe that it is impossible.

come to think about it, we are already brainwashed by the system that WE support and WE nurish. It's a briliant plan actually. we live in a prison that we sustain, and not only do we not know its a prison we would defend it with our lives even though we hate it.

A really really good point, colloredbrothers, star for you. And a flag and a thank you for bringing the video to my attention.

Now, how about suggesting me a solution, perhaps you have an idea?

Thanks,

Yes I have thought about it and there could be a way in making something like this possible, but I am not intelligent enough to try to make a water proof system where all the aspects of living in a society are covered in.

I know where we can start though, If you would look on the account of the person that made the video you would see that there is a video about education. If you would like, its good to listen to it to understand first what kind of shools we should put our kids in. (Iv included them)

The whole reforming of society starts there, at the schools. We should reform them and we should be learning them the way he depicts in his videos.

Then we cleared one step in making society a better scoiety, we are actually producing self thinking, critical kids. Not some parrot.

I think this would be the largest step in the whole proces, the rest would come automaticly I believe. We shouldn't feed kids with the knowledge we have and tell them that it is 100% correct, we should show it to them on a plate and let them taste for them selves and perfect the dish to there own taste.



Also take a look at his account: check his account here

The argument is invalid because if no-one worked the world would grind to a halt....

oh and dont confuse LAZINESS to freedom k.. fact is people that dont wanna work are just bone idle and need a kick up the arse, you can find other pleasures in life and thats what you make time for , I.e holidays with your family, walking in the park or whatever , this video is just propoganda, if you wanna cry then go work on 2cents an hour as child labour in China , Then you can have something to WHINGE about...

Originally posted by Mindsmog
The argument is invalid because if no-one worked the world would grind to a halt....

oh and dont confuse LAZINESS to freedom k.. fact is people that dont wanna work are just bone idle and need a kick up the arse, you can find other pleasures in life and thats what you make time for , I.e holidays with your family, walking in the park or whatever , this video is just propoganda, if you wanna cry then go work on 2cents an hour as child labour in China , Then you can have something to WHINGE about...

So we can't crave for change in our system because there are worse systems out there? So we should just be happy with what we got?

Its like saying don't cry or whine about your beating, there are people out there that have been beaten up far worse then you have. doesn't make sence.

And by the way where have I said that in this system people will not work?

We will work but we will produce less, so that we have to work less too. So that we would live with enough food and materialistic goods but not as to over produce to later export the goods for money (that only serve the extreme rich)

[edit on 20-1-2010 by colloredbrothers]

S & F
One way to try avoid the net of mind control is: TURN OFF YOUR TV ! ! !

I see the whining of the original post and some of the responses as a sign of health. One must live in a fat country to crapulate about how horrible modern life is. In the old days it was only the landed and otherwise wealthy who could do that. Now anyone who has spent too much time in the English department of most universities can do it. For that matter, even high school kids can, too. I know. I have done it.

By the way, to those who have chosen poverty or to bust ass and move up to a higher level, either way securing control of huge chunks of your time, I say: Right on. I hope this supports your posts.

If you take an historical perspective, you see the same sort of complaining during other times of significant change: 1960s-80s was computers, 1900s-30s was factories, 1790s-1890s was earlier forms of industry. There were others times in Western history, with complaints about some class or another rising or declining from their "natural" places.

But the basic facts of 20th and 21st century work in the West (plus Japan and a couple of other places) versus the entire stretch of known history preceding are the following. Also, by posting this, I am not saying that we live in a perfect world, just that it beats the old one.

-- Nobody owns us, but even in places where chattle slavery did not exist, many people were still economically owned until the 19th or 20th century.

-- Before the middle 20th century, starvation was always one bad harvest away. Even the wealthy were not exempted.

-- Before the 20th century, epidemics were annual events. Sometimes, some lucky places got several different ones every year. Even the wealthy were not exempted.

-- Until the middle 20th century work was hard and often dangerous. Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and tons of English aristocrats could prattle on and on about the virtues of the agrarian life, but the 80% of the population who worked those farms might have told a different story. Don't forget most of the other 20% worked in mines, mills, and factories where heavy stuff could fall on you, hot stuff could incinerate you, and safety was not even a concept.

-- Physical, mental, emotional, and sexual abuse were common place in the workplace, especially for women.

-- Until the 20th century, work occupied 6, 6.5, or 7 days a week for almost anyone, with anything less than 10 hours a day the exception, especially for women.

So, when I detect complaints about the dehumanizing plight of people who:

-- live in the West
-- Work in well-lighted, climate controlled buildings with no sharp corners or loud, open, limb-mangling equipment
-- Who don't have to handle a rivet gun or sledge hammer all day long
-- Who have so much to eat that they are morbidly obese
-- Who don't know what smallpox, malaria, cholera, yellow fever, etc are
-- Who have time to make videos about how sorry their state is

I can not say that I have much simpathy. You must forgive me.

And short of forgiving me, you could try to get back to way things used to be. All you need to do is move to rural Asia, Africa, or South America. Or if you want the city life where skilled labor is appreciated, try Havana or Monrovia.

As I stated earlier, this is really a sign of health that someone can whine like this -- and that I can spend so much time responding to it.

This is what I've been telling these religious people... "we already live in HELL, so when the time is up, it can only get better".

Definition of hell, a place where the worst things in the world that can happen to you. Think about it, the most horrifying thing that can ever happen to you... well, that exact same thing happens here in our world! The worst thing you can image can happen here, so by definition we already live in HELL!

So left over with two choices.. either live in the system or create one to free us all. WE the people are the FUEL for this system, WE are what these so called bosses and executive needs to keep their status. WE the people need to FREE each other. WE the people are the cause and solution to this problem!

I alone can not do this by myself, I need YOU!

"I myself do nothing. The Holy Spirit accomplishes all through me."

"I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create. " - William Blake

God damn this thread is full of sophists and retards.

Look economics is very very simple.

Either I have the freedom to trade goods and services with my fellow man, or I don't.

If you hold that I don't then you're not a libertarian, so don't call yourself one.

End of discussion.

This entire website is confusing me today.

I don;t understand why this is a philosophical argument. You hate your job? Change it. You don't want to abide by laws and societal rules- move off grid- you have the FREEDOM to. Honestly, you do.

What does being miserable and sharing that with everyone actually DO for you? get off your **s and change your circumstances. Yes, it IS that easy. You spend more energy complaining than actually DOING something to help yourself. I don't understand...

Originally posted by TheBandit795
reply to post by Yandros

 

Originally posted by Yandros
It's communist propaganda.

Then why is he also criticizing communism in the video???

Fine then, he's a syndicalist. It's all the same nonsense though.

"Markets are evil"
"Humans have become commodities"
"Wage work is slavery"
"People walk around in invisible cages"

There is no substance to any of these arguments. They are just appeals to morality. And what he advocates, as you will quickly realise, is indeed the abolition of markets, which simply means the abolition of the freedom to trade.

It has nothing to do with freedom. He has butt hurt because he doesn't like his job, so now he's donned a libertarian flag and started spouting left-wing propaganda. All he wants is violence to be used to secure resources to people like himself away from people who produce for a living. He doesn't care two #s about freedom.

A related writing.. this was written by a scientist gal that spent a long time thinking very deeply, while working at the South Pole...

If you liked the video, you may also love this...

One Sunday I was dragged off to church and our usual priest, Father Ennui, wasn't there. Instead there was someone younger. He'd come up from Fort Monmouth to fill in for our apathetic pastor who had been taken away in an ambulance for reasons that concerned no one. This priest was an Army Chaplain, and when it came time for the holy-thou-art-amens and we sat down for his sermon, I was ready to hear what one of God's own riflemen had to say. He told this story:

After he had been redeployed from Vietnam he was attached to a unit doing humanitarian work in Central America. While he was there a hurricane blew through and wrecked a huge portion of Costa Rica. Many homes were destroyed and people killed. He was assigned to a corps of engineers and physicians who assisted in the recovery.

Continues HERE

Great video, OP. It has really opened my eyes on the world we live in.

reply to post by Yandros


Watch the money as debt video's I posted...

Originally posted by Yandros
God damn this thread is full of sophists and retards.

Look economics is very very simple.

Either I have the freedom to trade goods and services with my fellow man, or I don't.

If you hold that I don't then you're not a libertarian, so don't call yourself one.

End of discussion.

Where do I or the video suggest that you can't trade goods or services? nowhere in the video does it say that. So could you point that out to me?

Originally posted by seataka

A related writing.. this was written by a scientist gal that spent a long time thinking very deeply, while working at the South Pole...

If you liked the video, you may also love this...

One Sunday I was dragged off to church and our usual priest, Father Ennui, wasn't there. Instead there was someone younger. He'd come up from Fort Monmouth to fill in for our apathetic pastor who had been taken away in an ambulance for reasons that concerned no one. This priest was an Army Chaplain, and when it came time for the holy-thou-art-amens and we sat down for his sermon, I was ready to hear what one of God's own riflemen had to say. He told this story:

After he had been redeployed from Vietnam he was attached to a unit doing humanitarian work in Central America. While he was there a hurricane blew through and wrecked a huge portion of Costa Rica. Many homes were destroyed and people killed. He was assigned to a corps of engineers and physicians who assisted in the recovery.

Continues HERE

Wow that was an amazing read, I read it like i was watching a movie or something. very nice thanks

Originally posted by TheBandit795
reply to post by Yandros

 

Watch the money as debt video's I posted...

Already seen. What of it? State control of money and banking is going to be evil because the state is evil. What is complicated about that?

Originally posted by colloredbrothers
Where do I or the video suggest that you can't trade goods or services? nowhere in the video does it say that. So could you point that out to me?

Right at the start, "that voluntaryism isn't freedom." The premise is that markets are bad; when all markets are in the first place is the freedom to trade goods and services amoungst eachother.

Speaking to the author of the video I got this out of him much more explicitly when he wrote: "Coops are great but I think when you give up the idea of markets that's when you really create something interesting."

The video is classical communist / syndicalist propaganda. The way you know its propaganda is that it uses an appeal to morality, but does not reason from first principles. It dismisses voluntary interaction out of hand and mis-characterizes the current state of things as a form of voluntaryism, and leaves the watcher with this idea that some commu-topia awaits, if only one were to pick up a gun and threaten one's fellow man for the billionth time, if only one would do that again, then this time supposedly it would be different.

When you've come around, gone around, heard it all, read it all enough times it starts to become pretty obvious what sort of smoke screen you are looking through. And it is a particularly dangerous thing that communist propaganda is being circulated under libertarian flags.

reply to post by cjcord


Yes. Sometimes difficult, but simple.

reply to post by Th8nker


Everyone can be a boss huh? You fenagled a managerial position and you firmly believe that since you can and did, that everyone else can too?

How would a world operate if all workers were bosses and all jobs were managerial and "be-your-own-boss"? It wouldn't.

This society is such that only a select few, be it by skill or otherwise, will become managers, and everyone else will not. This is the only way for the system to function, if everyone were perfectly capable and sufficient, then the system would fail. There needs to be an exponential amount of poor over the rich, otherwise the system will fail.