The most important question I can ask.

I tend to like the conclusion Nassim Harramein comes to

WE are the biological feedback resolution between the infinitely large, and the infinitely small

that is

WE are the manifestation of what the universe needs to gather information about itself

would a galaxy be large, or an atom be small if WE were not here to observe it

do yourself a favor...look into Nassim Harramein

first check out The Resonance Project...about 8ish hours
and Crossing the Event Horizon...another 8ish hours

I would love to hear what you come up with afterwards

we will all differ on this subject! you must find the truth within yourself! there is no right or wrong! I have been pondering this question for some time! i can only tell you what i believe! well through science I have discovered sth special! start by asking what is reality??? reality is based upon 5 principles sight,smell,taste,touch,and hearing! these are all created by the brain! hence your brain creates your reality and everything in it! we are on this 3rd dimensional world stuck in our limits of our brain! we do have a 6th sense sth our brain can not make logic of! some called it a soul or spirit! in some ways we project ourselves to EXPERIENCE this world, we create this world with light and vibrations from the universe ! all to live and experience! death is the loss of ability to continue in this world!no brain no nothing! so the meaning of life is experience and we must live it to continue to the 4th dimensional world! so in some way we are the universe! this is all a dream and I hope we move on after this experience ! but in saying that nobody knows!

reply to post by Chonx


You should probably define what you mean by consciousness first, are you using it as a synonym for self awareness or as a catch all term for everything the mind does?

The fact that lesion patients, i.e. people who have suffered damage to part of their brain, exhibit drastic changes in everything from function (speech, perception etc) to personality would strongly suggest that all that you are comes from the physical makeup of your brain and not something outside it.

Look up Phineas Gage for a classic example of this.

I don’t see why this has to be any more depressing than the alternative; I could equally argue that if we were all going to effectively live forever in an afterlife then there was no point in learning now or ever.

reply to post by Doc Velocity

The Universe is capable of Consciousness, therefore, the Universe IS conscious.

My computer uses microchips made of silicon but that doesn’t mean a beach is capable of the calculations my computer is. What you have said does not make the universe conscious.


[edit on 18-1-2010 by Mike_A]

What is so hard about believing their is such a thing as a soul, that lives on
in another dimension, (spirit world) that resides in your physical body on this plain, under temporary conditions. Science itself points out that energy may transform but it will always exist. Is consciousness energy?
Life is not a space between to nothings. Evolution itself would understand the complete futility of that.

Any notion, that evolution alone, accounts for the universe and all with in,
is lathargic.

Originally posted by Mike_A
My computer uses microchips made of silicon but that doesn’t mean a beach is capable of the calculations my computer is. What you have said does not make the universe conscious.

A beach does not manufacture computers. People manufacture computers. There is nothing about a computer that is any more sophisticated or "intelligent" than a few buckets full of sand. Without the human element to assign "worth" and "value" to it, a computer has no more worth or value than a few bucketfuls of sand.

Come to think of it, a beach full of sand has given me more enjoyment in one afternoon than computers have given me in 25 years.

Which one is more "valuable"? Which one has more "worth"? The value of a thing is entirely subjective, entirely at the whim of Humans, who evolved out of the dirt, essentially. A computer is as much a product of the Universe as we are. Without our hands and our inspiration, computers would have no meaning at all.

— Doc Velocity

Well OP, despite that I'm much younger than you are, I think I've been through what you have been.
So, allow me to give you some piece of advice, so that you dont make the same mistakes than me. This holds in one single word, yet is extremely important :
LISTEN.
I'm serious. You'll start researching, and finding some informations, good. But never think that you have found the answers. Learn to make your spirit still, and to listen to everything. In the beggining you'll hear nothing, but information will come.
It is very hard, but this is the way it works.

Good luck. Making the first step towards wisdom and knowledge is allready being wiser and smarter than most people.

reply to post by Doc Velocity


The point is the process that any given thing is capable of does not just depend on the constituent parts, it depends on how they fit together. From that perspective the analogy stands; if the Universe is conscious merely because it has all the parts required to create a conscious entity then a beach (admittedly with a little metal and plastic thrown in) is capable of doing what a microchip does because it the two share the same constituent parts.

If you want a natural, non manufactured example then I could take each of the elements found in the periodic table, put them all in a bucket and by your reasoning they should be capable of any and all processes from photosynthesis to complex mathematical equations. But they aren't.

Originally posted by Mike_A
The point is the process that any given thing is capable of does not just depend on the constituent parts, it depends on how they fit together... I could take each of the elements found in the periodic table, put them all in a bucket and by your reasoning they should be capable of any and all processes from photosynthesis to complex mathematical equations. But they aren't.

That's not what I said. I said that we are products of the universe, and we are conscious; therefore, the Universe is at least as conscious and intelligent as we are. Which is a fact.

Unless, of course, you think that Humans are not part of the Universe.

You, with primitive thinking skills, can take a bucketful of elements from the Periodic Table and you can't make it do anything. The Universe, on the other hand, can take those same elements and create stars, planets, Life, human beings, and everything else with no help whatsoever from our feeble human logic.

Yes, all processes from microscopic asexual reproduction to photosynthesis to complex mathematical equations are all products of this Universe. We haven't invented anything that the Universe is incapable of creating blindfolded.

"Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine."
— Sir Arthur Eddington


— Doc Velocity








[edit on 1/18/2010 by Doc Velocity]

I think consciousness energy comes directly from the "unified field" in which scientists seek to find a common source for all forces and energies in nature.

In this view the entire universe and all of creation is conscious on some level, even a rock. But this requires a refinement of the understanding of consciousness itself. A rock can't have thoughts or feelings because it doesn't have firing neurons (thoughts) or other chemical reactions (emotions). And a rock is not SELF-conscious, like humans and other animals are.

But everything that imprints any sort of order at all, in other words even the 4 fundamental forces that science recognizes, all are conscious energies, and THAT is the energy that unites them all in the "unified field." It is a direct and intentional creative process. The aspect of the rock that is the unified field, and even vibrating electrons, etc., are all creative, sustaining, ordered, intentional, conscious energies.

Hey mate, Ain't life a biach? I ask similar questions like you too. Are we just a biological machines or are we something much more... If we are something more than a machine, is there a creator?? Is there god that set everything in motion and is my life special with a purpose....

I just want to know if there is really a GOD!

But right now, in our situation in our world, I cannot tell if God really exists...

If God really exists, wouldn't he tell us the purpose of life by NOW???

Life shouldn't be such a big mystery...

The only certainty in life is is that if you are ALIVE, then you will DIE.

The way I see it, It takes intelligence to create things like desk, a chair, a boat etc...
Then there must be an intelligence that created and started life.

But Whose intelligence was it that created life?

It is my belief, that there is a higher probability that a form of intelligence has been the result of what we are experiencing today. Which means some kind of a Creator.

But my question is, why is it so so so so hard to figure it out. Where is this elusive creator??

This is a the biggest mystery in life. The appearance of an intelligent design, but no conclusive evidence of the Creator.

The appearance of an intelligent design, but no conclusive evidence of the Creator, nor Creators attempt to reveal himself

is the central reason why there are so many conflicts and issues in life today. I think.

If this mystery in life is solved, I think humanity would have a better idea of which direction it should take its life.

This leads me to a belief that God is not perfect. God is imperfect and some kind of big mistake has happend

reply to post by Chonx


I asked this same question when my sister got killed in a car accident. I thought the same things such as, once the people who knew my sister or me for that matter were gone, after our deaths it would be as if we never existed having no record of the lives we lived.

I don't care if anyone ever remembers me, but my little sister was a saint and one of the best people I've ever known. It brings me to tears even now thinking that she would be forgotten and that all the love she gave would go unrecognized, never to be recalled again. No one will be remembered with enough passage of time. We all meet the same fate.

It's a tough question, but maybe the answer is found in the question.

All that we judge is here in this life, wither it is an idea, a person, a lifestyle. Judgment is life. Plus we are products of our environment. It's the rare few that break the mold and the true hero's are not remembered.

Think of the thousands that drop away from the earth every day that you have never heard of. Are their lives anymore important to you? Even more think of the thousands that enter the world every day. We can all say we care for these souls, but the truth is, until we here of some disaster like Haiti, those people that come and go every day are as they never existed as well.

Ultimately in the end, you are the only one that can answer this question...

Good Luck and I hope you find your answer.

Peace

reply to post by Doc Velocity


I see what you’re saying but I still disagree because you’re equating a property of a part with the whole; the Universe can no more be described as conscious because we are than I can be described as transparent because the lens in my eye is. Although we are part of the Universe we are still distinct from the whole, including in the processes that produce consciousness (as far as we can know).

I am disagreeing with you when you say “The entire Universe is conscious” which it isn’t or at least can’t be construed to be through the logic inferences you set out.

That the Universe is capable of producing consciousness and discreet parts of the Universe are conscious are both clearly evidenced statements but to say that the entire Universe is conscious is not.

reply to post by bsbray11



So what is consciousness in your opinion? If it’s not self awareness, thoughts or any other mental process then what is it and how does that fit with any scientific or common use definition of consciousness?

I don’t get what you are saying, a rock doesn’t have any of the properties that we normally associate with consciousness but nevertheless it’s still conscious?

reply to post by saabacura


If you can determine that a desk must have an intelligent creator because of its complexity why doesn’t that creator, itself, require a creator? If it doesn’t then complexity must be possible without intelligent guidance which negates the original assertion; if it does then you start an infinite loop of creators which equally invalidates the starting point.

Originally posted by saabacura
This leads me to a belief that God is not perfect. God is imperfect and some kind of big mistake has happend

Perfect doesn't mean flawless, it means complete...good or bad.

Peace

Originally posted by saabacura
The way I see it, It takes intelligence to create things like desk, a chair, a boat etc...
Then there must be an intelligence that created and started life.

But Whose intelligence was it that created life?

It is my belief, that there is a higher probability that a form of intelligence has been the result of what we are experiencing today. Which means some kind of a Creator.

But my question is, why is it so so so so hard to figure it out. Where is this elusive creator??

This is a the biggest mystery in life. The appearance of an intelligent design, but no conclusive evidence of the Creator.

The creator is in front of you everyday. It's the one creating the Desk and the lamp but those aren't its achievements...you and about 6 and a half billion are. Passed along to you is the power to create life, to become a life giving spirit. In the end you either serve yourself, or you serve life, the choice is yours. Creator or Created?

Peace

personaly i consider the possibility of life after death more depressing than the alternative.

For the same reasons i wouldnt want to be immortal living forever in this flesh and blood i wouldnt want an imortal soul.

I find it comfarting that one day it will be all over and there will be no more... at least it leaves in its place a structure for our existance... were born, we live and we die... the start the middle and the end of a book. If everything and everyone continues whats the point? What would you do with an eternity after having lived a human life?

We are all just biological machines. But humans have become so much more than just machines, we can choose not to do certain things. Im hungry, if i was an animal id go out and get some food, but i choose not to follow that preprogramed instinct because i know i can get some food later if i feel like it, im quite content to sit here hungry for a while.

I dont see how energy can have any sort of complexity without a physical system to guide an direct it. What makes us alive is the constant change and fluctuation in the various energies in our bodies passing between different physical parts... would that still work/ could that still work without the physical? I doubt it, otherwise why would the physical part be there at all, in the first place?

I find it cruel aswell that we evolved to be this way, and if i was a soul flopping around in the universe waiting for my first body, i dont think id take it. If i had the choice i dont think i would have wanted to be born.

as my mom says: life is # and then you die.

Eternaty seems like a meaningless waste of time to me

~TR

I hate to give you a religious explaination but ahem, our great science community cannot answer your question.. Theirfore you can either except the unknown as an answer or you can seek a religious answer.

Furthermore, if science be true, your existence ends with death. It does sound logical as well. When our vcr's or dvd's or cars breakdown we have to choices fix it if possible, or just recycle it or throw it away.

Yet i am pretty sure our conciousness would not exist without our minds, without our mind I am pretty sure our existence beyound perhaps reacting to some form of stimuli via, electrical currents or something per se, we would not be aware of anything. The connection I think is within the electricty within our body's when we die, that electricity does not die it goes somewhere else, BUT their is no science going in depth on this event, yet this is where you can get your religious exlaination, not to mention those explaination are not proven to be wrong as well.