America looses it moral high ground in the world...

reply to post by colloredbrothers


I don't think the threads are anti-American, what they are is anti-Establishment that is ruining America. "America" to me is "We The People." UNITED STATES, that is Them. We the People and they the Corporation. We try to live, and make a living, the Corporation makes up lots of corporate rules (statutes) for us to live by, and they take everything that is fun and make it illegal. The damn us for having means to protect our homes, and wish to take it away. They provide us with interest bearing money, and a fiat standard, and a money from debt ecomomy, when we need to have interest free money on a gold standard, and stop the money traders from their practice of inflation.
Wall Street is a double edged sword. What we are trying to do is wrest control from International Bankers and the Federal Reserve, and we are trying to get some real people elected to Senate and Congress, instead of the Fat Cats that sit up there now.
Sound off, people, am I right?

Originally posted by truthquest
Yes, we did actually have quite a lot of support.

I never mentioned 'support'. What has that to do with morality?

Hitler was supported to the point of being elected into office. He was also supported by lots of American and British officials.

Lots of people support the Catholic church, or any church, if you think they are morally perfect then you ain't looking. How many pedo preachers did they find, and how many did they not?

The only reason America got support was because it is, or was, a cash cow. Morality has nothing to do with it. Is it moral to exploit the worlds weaker countries? That's what America has done, along with the UK, France, Spain, Holland etc...India, for example, was a very wealthy country until Britain invaded and exploited their resources.

There is no morality in capitalism, nor politics, just markets to exploit, and people to control to maintain the privilege created from stolen resources.

Edit; another point, the countries offering support are also morally corrupt. It's criminals supporting criminals, but they have the law on their side because they make the laws.

[edit on 1/22/2010 by ANOK]

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by truthquest
Yes, we did actually have quite a lot of support.

I never mentioned 'support'. What has that to do with morality?

Hitler was supported to the point of being elected into office. He was also supported by lots of American and British officials.

Lots of people support the Catholic church, or any church, if you think they are morally perfect then you ain't looking. How many pedo preachers did they find, and how many did they not?

The only reason America got support was because it is, or was, a cash cow. Morality has nothing to do with it. Is it moral to exploit the worlds weaker countries? That's what America has done, along with the UK, France, Spain, Holland etc...India, for example, was a very wealthy country until Britain invaded and exploited their resources.

There is no morality in capitalism, nor politics, just markets to exploit, and people to control to maintain the privilege created from stolen resources.

Edit; another point, the countries offering support are also morally corrupt. It's criminals supporting criminals, but they have the law on their side because they make the laws.

[edit on 1/22/2010 by ANOK]

All I meant to say is that US government has had an appearance of morality from the perspective of other countries, but as US government continues to do things against morality, that perspective continues to disappear. As for whether the US morality is getting worse over time, I believe it is, though I'm not really sure at all.

As for capitalism, I don't view it as an immoral system. Capitalism is a system designed to provide an incentive for those producing wealth for an economy to continue producing wealth for that economy. Such a system does work, and if the United States decided to have capitalism we would all benefit but the poor people would especially benefit.

If a corporation is running politics that isn't capitalism, but rather fascism. When Bush's oil buddies took over Iraq for the oil, that was fascism because corporations getting in bed with government is fascism. Even under a 100% capitalist economy, it can and likely would be highly illegal to pay off politicians to damage people for profit, be highly illegal to pollute, and be highly illegal to physically or mentally abuse workers.

To me its important to properly label what George Bush did in Iraq as fascist. When corporations are in bed with the government, that is fascism and so what we have today in America is not capitalism but fascism. And its important to label what the Goldman Sachs has been doing to get tons of money for their banker buddies as fascism. That corporation got in bed with the government, and that is fascism rather than capitalism.

Hopefully this won't go too far off topic about the merits of capitalism because my main point is simply that what other people label capitalism is actually fascism.

Originally posted by truthquest

Yes you are right about the fascism, but that is politics not economy.

An economy based on private ownership of resources (capitalism) leads to fascism. You can't have fascism (politics) without capitalism (economy).

Fascism is the merger of government and corporations, sometime now called corporatism.

You know the reason Hitler took over Poland so easy? Because the Poles new they were going to be inevitably invaded by the Soviet Union and the private business owners would rather, in their words, 'lay down before Hitler, than let on their territory the Soviet Army'. Because they knew under Hitler, and fascism, they could save their private industries and profits. Fascism was supported because it was seen as the savior of capitalism, as apposed to socialism/communism. That was what the Spanish civil war was all about, the real precursor to WWII, socialism fighting the rise of fascism. It was the workers (socialists) fighting against 'big brother' the fascist government.

The war wasn't to fight fascism, just Hitlers aggression that went too far, the real war was FOR fascism and against socialism. It all stemmed from the 'class war' between the private owners and the workers.

Huge corporations were formed from the profits of WWII. These corporations pretty much took control of our resources and their distribution. They didn't want to lose the profits made during WWII, so the 'cold war' was started and the ongoing war economy that has kept the US wealthy since.

Fascism wasn't stopped by WWII, it was established as a world wide system.

You may not see capitalism as being immoral because you really haven't looked at it without your life time conditioning biasing your view. I'm not putting you down, it's just the easy way to look at things, not really questioning what you've been spoon fed by the state, who's only interest BTW is to keep you confused as to the reality around you and the real history of class warfare. Most of your ancestors came from proud working class backgrounds in Europe, but the PTB made sure that you forgot your true history, what it stands for, and where you came from. Fascists don't want you having thoughts above your station. They don't want you thinking for yourself, it's their version of history you better follow!

Capitalism only gives incentive for personal gain, without thought to community. Without community personal gain is pointless imo. The world falls apart from crime and exploitation, but who cares as long as you're OK? Well eventually it won't be OK will it? How nice to have a huge house and ten cars, and whatever, when you step out of your house into a cesspit of Humanity? What's the point?

[edit on 1/23/2010 by ANOK]

Sry dbl post


[edit on 1/24/2010 by ANOK]

LOL at the attacks on Chavez. As if he could do any better with America trying to sabotage his nation day in day out.

Same with Iran. These people are doing the best of a bad job. It's impossible to thrive with a nation like America trying to destroy you.

reply to post by zeuseadam


"Nothing is ever what it seems at first glance." It's all a PR war that America is unfortanately losing. Chavez and his type WANT YOU to feel this way. Makes us easier to beat. Try living in those places.

i knew that was going to happen when we started saying we were a democracy. down hill from there.............never forget....we were the nation everyone wanted to be like. well their people wanted our type of govern. A REPUBLIC

I would argue America never had the moral high ground in the first place, so there was nothing substantive to lose. Yes mabye in propaganda terms the World has seen the true side of American Freedom, i.e. corporate freedom to do business where and how they chose at the expense of anyone who dares oppose.

Just look at American history, real American history, it is as appaling as some of the worst such as my own country Britain.

1. Bio Warfare- The pioneers hand over balnkets as gifts to the Native Americans but fail to mention they are laced with Smallpox. Decimates their population.

2. Colonialism- The American- Philipine War at the turn of the 20th Century which led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Philipine people. American-Spanish War over Cuba, which led to an American domination of the country. Panama, Gutemala, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia Nicuagra, Iran, Iraq, Chile, Mexico, Uruguay, Argentin. All these countries and many more have suffered due to American meddling, either with direct invasions or American sponsered coups of would be dictators against Nationalist/ Socialist leaders.

3. Institulionalised Racisim- The Jim Crowe Laws. One of the few countires in the world to actually put racisim into law, and create to some extent an apharteid state.

4. Hiroshima-Nagasawki.

5. The treatment of its own people in the destruction of the power of the labor unions. This has happened throughout their history, most notably in the late 1800's. But none more so than during the Reagan era, when he fired 11,000 Air Traffic Controllers on the spot for going on strike. Unions have never fully recoverd.

6. The complete monopoly of wealth in very few hands whilst the rest of the country and World for that matter suffer. Oligrachy/Corprotism.

7. Mindless support of Israel, with nothing to show for it other than the hatred of the Arab/Muslim/Persian World.

No need to go on, point made.

The late Howard Zinn said it best: "Americans suffer from Historical Amnesia".

What in the world would lead you to believe that we are 'just now' seeming to become a bully? Read some history, its what we do.

"America has lost its moral higher ground". Again, read history, talk to someone thats not a North American, look a little deeper into the policies of some countries before you suppose that we have ANY form of moral higher ground.

There is something called substantial evidence; history, and there then there is something called propaganda and disinformation. We only "know" what we experience and are told. Their is a fine line between the two.

What is Morality?

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by truthquest

An economy based on private ownership of resources (capitalism) leads to fascism. You can't have fascism (politics) without capitalism (economy).

While its true capitalism can lead to fascism, voters have to specifically vote for fascism in order to get it. Hitler was voted in. So are modern politicians who get most of their funding from large corporations. Communism and socialism on the other hand can only be put into place through violent crimes.

Communism and socialism on the other hand can only be put into place through violent crimes

The only reason this is true is because the only way it could be put in place is by replacing the capitalist system and people who have a vested interest in the system of capitalism would not let it go without resorting to violence.

It could not happen without violence because the opposing side would not let it. It has not been prevented from a peaceful occurrence because of some supposed inherent social flaw or because its part of the 'doctrine' or anything like that, it is simply because any system of control that is in charge will defend its role as the domineer.

Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by zeuseadam

 

Americans really have it pretty good compared to rest of world, even with the current recession/depression there hasn't been the utter devastation and starvation that exists elsewhere, and Americans know this. It is in their interests to have low food prices, low fuel prices, etc.

to many of your kind in there..blind and high sheephood level..

Originally posted by swecret

to many of your kind in there..blind and high sheephood level..

Would you care to elaborate on how my observation means that I blind and have high sheephood level? Perhaps if you had taken the time to read the entire post or take the digest what it said (since you clearly didn't get it the first time) you wouldn't take the time to post nothing but name calling.

Now, can you honestly say that Americans as a whole do not have an equal or in many cases better standard of living than other countries? Even our unemployed can receive benefits for food, unfortunately I know quite a few people in that situation and while they are not living like kings, they are not hungry and neither are their children.

Now, go about your business and if your going to take the time to post, at least make it worth it, sheesh.