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A little discussion about Revolution and the Declaration of Independance

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posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 03:06 PM

First off, lets take a look at the Declaration of Independance.

Natural Law assertion

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

The Preamble

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

The list of Grievances Section

Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such disolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

A form of explanation to our brethren, for the next actions to be taken.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

The Declaration of severance.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

The signers of the Declaration

New Hampshire - Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton
Massachusetts - John Hancock, Samual Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry
Rhode Island - Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery
Connecticut - Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott
New York - William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris
New Jersey - Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark
Pennsylvania - Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross
Delaware - Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean
Maryland - Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton
Virginia - George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton
North Carolina - William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn
South Carolina - Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton
Georgia - Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton

All components in yellow are additions that I have added for the breakdown of the Declaration of Independance. The text was taken from Wikipedia.

+1 more 
posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 03:06 PM

Next I would like to give you my list of grievances.

A list of grievances-They; reference to the US Federal Government and the Banking/Corporate/Elite control infrastructure of varying governments and countries

They have abandoned the Constitutional rule of law-

• The congress has written and are writing legislation that supersedes and abrogates the Constitution
• They have instituted agencies that are unconstitutional in nature
• They have courts that regularly write new law by decree alone
• The executive branch regularly writes legislation and decrees
• The executive branch writes unconstitutional law
• They have instituted statutes that willfully and surreptitiously evade the true meaning of the Constitution

They have instituted a taxation system that is unfair and spurious in nature-

• Sales taxes that are unfair and detrimental to specific groups of people and products
• Income taxes that were instituted as a temporary measure have become permanent
• Income taxes that are detrimental to the majority of people and that are not instituted in a fair and reasonable nature
• Socialist taxes have been instituted to control the very lives they were instituted to “supposedly” help and have willfully spent these funds for whatever they chose
• Taxes across the board have come to a point that if you add them all up, for the average American household, would be an effective tax rate of 50%-75%
• They have instituted a debt that can only be said to enslave every man, woman and child in perpetuity
• They have disallowed our rights of trial by jury, for the income tax system

They have created a standing army that the likes of which, mankind has never seen-

• This army which is supposed to be for the protection of the US, in fact has become a global police force for the main purpose of enforcing EMPIRE
• This army has become so all encompassing of the world, that its very existence has eliminated our very sovereignty as a nation and the sovereignty of other nations
• This standing army was never meant to exist in the Constitutional mandate of the United States of America
• This army could be considered the control apparatus extension, of an elite class of people, to institute the very tyranny that our forefathers warned us of

They have instituted a fiat money supply and a Private Banking system that is unconstitutional in nature

• The Federal Reserve was instituted illegally
• The removal of gold and silver as the base for our money was instituted illegally
• The control of our money by an illegal institution has brought us to our very knees
• The control of the fiat money has been used to control and destroy sovereign nations around the world
• The institution of this system has in effect, eliminated the basic governance by “we the people”

They have placed treaties and organizations above and beyond our own governance

• We are supposed to be a sovereign country
• They have put the betterment of other peoples and countries above our own welfare
• They are attempting to institute a larger global governance above the Constitutional mandated system that MILLIONS have fought and died for
• They have instituted economic treaties to the detriment of our own people
• They have signed treaties that are in direct violation of our own Constitution
• They have initiated treaties that will eliminate our sovereignty to the furtherance of a Global Governing body
• They have joined an organization, that regularly has invaded and intervenes in the sovereignty of foreign nations
• They have signed foreign treaties with foreign countries, that have intertwined us in a battle that has existed for 1000’s of years and does not look like it will ever be solved

They have instituted measures to control and spy on everyone unconstitutionally

• They have instituted measures to divide the people
• They have instituted measures to restrict rights
• They have instituted measures to spy on citizens and people around the world
• They have instituted measures to be able to imprison anyone that goes against their measures of control
• They have committed acts of aggression against people and governments throughout the world, both to institute their ideals on and for their own purposes

They have by manipulation of courts and legislation, allowed a hegemony of elite people and organizations to be above the law

• They have instituted laws and procedures that they themselves do not have to follow
• They have turned blind eyes toward corruption in their very ranks
• They have allowed usurpation of rights and duties that they themselves are required to maintain
• They have willfully neglected to enforce laws, that would have negated the very tyranny that is rampant in this day and age

[edit on 1/15/2010 by endisnighe]

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 03:07 PM

The discussion MUST be done, or do we allow our voice to be silenced?

King George probably had a list made up of the very people that had been discussing the tyranny, he was instituting against them. I know there are lists with the names of Americans that have been discussing the tyranny being perpetrated against us. Everyone knows of the DHS memos that were sent. Where do you think they have the lists, that have the different levels of threats against the tyrants?

They have willfully and negligently brought about the very tyranny, which our forefathers warned us about. They have instituted this plan, for the better part of 100 years, to bring about the fall of the United States of America and to institute a One World Government. This may be a charitable endeavor on their part, even an honorable one, but it was never mandated by the free and willing voice of the people. In the founding of our nation, the mandate of the people was to try to govern ourselves, in as a free and open system as possible. With this attempt of the elite banking/corporate hierarchy to institute this draconian system, we must remember our forefather’s warnings. Do we allow this to continue? Do we allow an unelected and tyrannical system to takeover, in the stead of; the absolute freedom and self governance the forefathers envisioned for us?

What say you America and the World, do we allow them to continue?

I would also like to add a video by one of the most COMMON SENSE representatives that I know of in government.

edit to add-This in no way is a call to arms or for a call for armed insurrection. All comments are given as discussion and the relevance of the call for a Global Governance by our countries.

[edit on 1/15/2010 by endisnighe]

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 04:35 PM
The question is not if they are allowed to continue, as they have violated the Constitution for the majority of the last 100 years. There is historical validity to eliminate the government we currently have.

The question, is who will fire the first shot?

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 04:39 PM
The Constitution and the Whole "Founding Fathers " worship and devotion is a scam .. ( The Biggest of them all) .. One of the most flawed Constitutions of the 1st world ..

and you of course buy it ..

[edit on 15-1-2010 by Polynomial C]

+8 more 
posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 04:47 PM
reply to post by Polynomial C

And the first troll arrives. And you get to be the first one to get my new troll medal!
edit to add troll award!


Care to address any of my grievances in my second section or are you here as a provocateur?

Let me paste a quote for the likes of you then-

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, go from us in peace.We seek not your counsel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; may your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!"

In my words-

Bow down to your masters, for you are not my countrymen. Lick the hand that gives you scraps, for they are your masters and betters. Bring not your insults or provocations before me, for I will not bow to any man, for I am a Free and Sovereign Individual with no preconceived notion, that any are better than I, or my fellow man.

[edit on 1/16/2010 by endisnighe]

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 04:50 PM
reply to post by endisnighe


You are correct, i feel.

Something needs to be done over there in America.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 04:53 PM
reply to post by DaRAGE

Yeah .. I Agree ..

America needs to abolish the Current constitution .. and create a new one ..
America needs to join the WORLD SOVEREIGNTY .. an Euro-Socialist kind of Government .. then .. and only then .. this nation will be fix ..

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 04:55 PM
reply to post by KrazyJethro

I believe they have already fired the first shot.

Remember the 9/12 protest?

People of the US, from all aspects of the general public, attended and voiced their grievances.

What was the King's reply?

What protest? The King knew of no protest. Paraphrase of the King's propaganda minister Gibbs.

Then we had the propaganda wing of the government spread their obfuscations. There was maybe 8,000 people, the protest for health care you mean, what protest, etc etc etc.

The absolute vitriolic and obfuscational replies, to the grievances of the people, remind me of the quote "LET THEM EAT CAKE!"

We must come together as a unified world to defeat these tyrants.

I believe our first step, here in the US, is to attempt to take away the power of the TWO PARTY SNAKE, that has wrapped us in it's tyranny.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 04:58 PM
reply to post by DaRAGE

Thanks for your reply and God Bless. Everyone except the blind can see we are headed for disaster. The world knows we are in folly but some of our own falsely believe more control by the government is the way to go. Some just cannot believe there own eyes and ears and have forsaken all lessons of history.

Thank you brethren.

Originally posted by Polynomial C
reply to post by DaRAGE

Yeah .. I Agree ..

America needs to abolish the Current constitution .. and create a new one ..
America needs to join the WORLD SOVEREIGNTY .. an Euro-Socialist kind of Government .. then .. and only then .. this nation will be fix ..

World Sovereignty, that is quite hilarious. Do you know what sovereignty even means?

Euro-socialist, excellent choice of words.

[edit on 1/15/2010 by endisnighe]

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 08:17 PM

Originally posted by endisnighe

I believe they have already fired the first shot.

I believe our first step, here in the US, is to attempt to take away the power of the TWO PARTY SNAKE, that has wrapped us in it's tyranny.

That's all well and good, but what, exactly, do you propose to do about it. These threads are cute and all, but it generally seems like they end up being a whole lot of fluffing of the "constitutionalists" while "smiting" the dirty socialists.

The first shot is never what they do to you, it the type one of us give to them, and I don't see a lot of folks lining up to be the first to murder an elected official or storm the gates.

I am libertarian, but I am also not stupid.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 08:20 PM

Originally posted by Polynomial C

America needs to abolish the Current constitution .. and create a new one ..
America needs to join the WORLD SOVEREIGNTY .. an Euro-Socialist kind of Government .. then .. and only then .. this nation will be fix ..

Saying it won't do anything, prove anything, or answer any questions. A concrete proposal and your rationale for the validity to your claims would be a decent start...

unless you're just a rabble-rouser or muck-raker. If you are, by all means. All you'll get is a bunch of crap.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 08:27 PM
reply to post by endisnighe

great post man could not say it any better

reply to post by Polynomial C

and to you, your obvious as can be every political thread that is in argument of what is right and the constitution your either 1st or 2nd poster to attack with DIS-INFO i look forward to the day your banned

[edit on 15-1-2010 by OpTiMuS_PrImE]

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 08:37 PM
reply to post by KrazyJethro

Love your handle by the way.

I am here on the forum to spread my views on the subject that is the most important thing to me.

As for what can I do and others do, voting and dissemination of information or ideas, is an important part of any peaceful revolution.

As for the other, that discussion is for other venues.

First and foremost, we as a free and liberty hungry people, must come together to the conclusion that our government does not have our best interests at heart.

I try to show why we have the current problems we have now. I am currently working on another thread that will show that both sides of the political spectrum, can be instituted in our current form of government.

The states pretty much are supposed to be individual entities protected by a union of the states. It is not supposed to be a collection of city/states completely under control of a monstrous Federal government.

Anyway, I like to cuss and discuss politics, why is it off limits to discuss the subject? I believe this is the most important discussion for the future of mankind.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 08:39 PM

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
The question is not if they are allowed to continue, as they have violated the Constitution for the majority of the last 100 years. There is historical validity to eliminate the government we currently have.

The question, is who will fire the first shot?

People need to stop questioning when it's going to start, because if everyone is questioning it, that leaves no one to actually do something.

If you really want a revolution, stop talking on some internet chat forum, and do something.

Stop the talking, stop the whining, unless you are actually going to do something. Don't flounder around hopelessly wanting change. Change starts with one.

Me though, I do not want any revolution if it calls for ending lives.

[edit on 15-1-2010 by Phlynx]

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 08:43 PM
reply to post by Polynomial C

You are god damn right I buy it. You must be out of your mind. If you worship socialism so much I am sure the People's Republic of Korea has a nice big bowl of oppression warmed up for you to gobble down. I hope you really enjoy it.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 08:44 PM
reply to post by OpTiMuS_PrImE

Thanks for the kudos Optimus.

Glad to see the Autobots have my back.

Anyway, obfuscators and disinfo follows everything nowadays.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 08:49 PM
reply to post by endisnighe

I will forum bitch slap a tard any day for ya that gets to run amuck spreading dis info sick of this crap on here they are ruining the forums

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 08:52 PM
reply to post by Phlynx

Why stop talking, do you want people to quit talking?

I do not understand the people saying these things. Discussion is very important to the governance of people. Why is it always off limits to talk about this?

Why do people always bring up death and destruction instead of discussing this?

Anyway, God Bless and Peace

reply to post by av8r007

Thank you! Could not have said it better.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 08:54 PM
reply to post by endisnighe

Excellent thread! Well written, organized and well thought out. End, you've got way too much time on your hands!

We need to present the list of grievances to a larger audience. Poeple need to understand where our country went wrong and must understand that a return to the Constitution is the ONLY solution to our problems.

It would be best if we could accomplish this through voting out the scoundrels and getting some honest to goodness citizen statesmen into office.

I feel though that the political powers are too far entrenched. Too many, like Poly C, have bought into the notion the US is an evil nation. It has been taught in our schools for decades and a huge segment of the populace sees the current form of socialist govt as being exactly what good government should be.

If the US is an evil nation, it is because we strayed away from the Constitutionally limited govt the founders intended and became an interventionist, imperial superpower due to the corruption of the nation's principals by corporate greed and political self interest. The statesman is gone, replaced by the politician, only interested in maintaining their power through continued bribeds to the people.

Getting this nation back on track, I believe, will involve a huge educational effort to deprogram the masses from their liberal delusions. The truth shall set us free from our socialist bonds.

I only fear it is not already too late...

[edit on 15-1-2010 by FortAnthem]

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