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First post with Healthscare warning.

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posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 10:08 AM
hello all,

here is a short story to explain what to expect with Government healthcare.

A very Big Fat Warning about HealthCare.

you will be getting health scare and your 15k a year bill you have no choice but to pay, why is easy. They have justification for doing it already. A few years back I had the wonderful opportunity to get wrapped up in the child support system. Did you know the government can set an amount of money for you to pay for whatever reason and you have Zero Recourse. I would like to think they have done what they have done for the betterment of my child, but none of what they have done has helped anyone. I have been driven from independent to dependent over the course of 15 years. A person can only play the cards they have been dealt. Not every person gets the opportunities to excel or achieve long term goals, life takes many different roads for every person and mine for the past 20 are pretty much the pits. Now if I understand child-support at all that would mean that the money is to help with taking care of the child? So the more money you make would be better for all parties. But in the case where the amount was set too high for the situations of the payer able to pay that set amount over a time line with no bad luck. (this was an UN-realistic amount for myself and has never changed.) The case was suppose to be reviewed within 3 weeks of the original court date “according to the child support personal”, it has been 16 years. I tried to get a review well over 16 times, every single time – DENIED- for good solid reasons like “it must have gotten lost in the mail” or “we aren't doing those this month”. This is how swell your health care is going to be.

If someone works for a company with set hours and its a repeating schedule they forget not everyone lives that way. I tried getting the good job, set hours, good pay, I even setup automatic deductions from my paycheck, even had it set $50 over to catch up arrears. Job went fine for about 2 years, then child support starting calling the office, they took over the deductions and made it an extra $50, then few weeks later added another $100. at that point there wasn't enough left to pay my bills. So when things are good, the government comes in and makes you loose your job and a place to live, and a car but you will still get the HeathCare.

Most people I know have been through different jobs in there life time. Mine is no different, I've done many different jobs. Some years I make money others I don't really make much at all. I have never maintained a steady income for over 3 years straight. If my life is only 10% normal out of 400 million people then 40 million people in this country either have or have the potential to encounter the exact same responses from this government as I have been getting. I have read a few of the stories past few years and it is intolerable. Sadly everyday someone is getting put in jail for a NON-Crime, IRS, child-support take your pick, trials everyday somewhere in this country. Everyone the past few months is all the sudden worried about it on the healthcare issue. If you are self-employed or small business, be ready to spend some time in jail for good reasons like “tornado ripped apart your shop and the insurance didn't pay enough for the time out of work and you missed a payment. Welcome to Big GOVERNMENT.

remember government says that 1 shoe does fit all. Your suppose to tell the truth in court right? Just keep thinking that when your sitting in jail. But hey lets say you made it over a few bumps in the road, since gov can't control money and the only way left to keep control of the money to feed yourself you think “I'll have to do contract to temp jobs”. Then lets toss in the entire world economy, it goes boom Not once but twice in 2008 and in 2002 and ITS ALL MY FAULT. ( Yeah I'm sure this has been painting the impossible picture but wait, there's more.) on to the next post.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 10:08 AM
The government has passed the laws to guarantee Government Standard in your life and if you don't reach the goal set for you then you go to jail. Detainment over NON-Crime is a breach of trust between citizen and government. Detainment for failure to perform a court order that deals with economics is a failure of the court not the citizen. Non-criminal court is about compromise and balance. Life is unexpected, tomorrow is unknown. Next year may or may not happen. I'm a simple guy but I am part of We the People and I have to question the sanity of the few people that allowed this to become LAW and the people upholding it as law. I can understand garnishment but not for more than what it takes to survive. Some may say what if the guy could pay more or doesn't pay at all? Consensual sex is life, and life is not a punishable offense. Jailing someone over this reason is UN-acceptable period. The government tools being used in detriment to a very big number of people can totally destroy anyone's life and there child's life just from the economic impact alone. Do you honestly believe; giving the government the right to treat or force everyone this exact way with Healthcare, is a very good idea?

Most people like myself can look at a $number and know if we can actually make that over a given time frame. I wouldn't take out a loan for triple what I could afford, now how is it that the judge treats it as such by setting the amount for a much higher number than I could possibly do? He even asked if I could do that and my answer was “no” he even asked what I thought it should be? I said about half that number. Your suppose to tell the truth in court right? He actually said “OK then that number should work great, it will give you something to strive for.” I got to sit in Jail for 6 months because he thinks he knows my abilities and the events that happen in my life better than I do? Sorry, at that point we are no longer citizen and government. That is a full breach of trust. We can look at what the government has been doing to average people over bad luck, and we have the audacity to say we believe in rights and freedom from oppression? Seems a good bit more like you have the right to jail, no other recourse. So go ahead and vote for the Healthcare I'm sure you will get to enjoy all the fine government programs and installations or your children will or on down the line. Why? Because life happens.

The entire governmental system has achieved nothing for the betterment of independence of individuals than the original constitution. All added amendments and laws have been exactly the opposite, hindering and restraining freedoms. Did you know its illegal to kill yourself? (I've tried to figure this out for years.) you can make the choice to take an airplane that could crash or explode but if you kill yourself its a crime? You can even drive a car on the interstate highways with all the other people that can not drive and crash into each other almost every single minute of everyday and even buy insurance that is legal gambling, (your betting you'll crash and they betting you don't – and the government requires that you have the insurance to drive) is this not the same choice as in picking the poison that kills you? Just to clear things up a bit, Stupidity kills the most people out of anything else throughout all of history.

Justice and in-justice have ramifications for each. If your a religious person then you already know of many stories where balance was tipped to far and catastrophe follows. It isn't always done by people nor is it always by nature. Actions will always have reactions and either by direct action or just the force of will, balance will be maintained. Looking at my case over the years and seeing the tipping of the scales and reactions that soon follow it makes one wonder how often this happens. Let's revisit the past. next post.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 10:10 AM
Mid 90's things were fair. Had the beginnings of the American dream. Big family, work to do and life to live. Had a child then the mother decided after a while I just wasn't what she wanted in her life. So after splitting up, we left the joint bank account open and I kept money in it for her to use when ever she needed it. She refused to touch it for an entire year after she left. Then tried to get the years back child support through the government. Thankfully that was denied, but the karma scale had bit tipped. Economic turmoil and terrorism starts to appear in the media. Few years later, dragged back into court to add more money to the already fantasy amount. Plus being forced out of the only job to ever pay enough to cover the first fantasy amount, 9/11 happens. Another year goes by Then dragged back to court to explain why not enough money is getting paid and to add more money to the amount. I'm sure this began a domino effect, for this event everyone got National Economic turmoil with over 2 millions jobs gone and major corporations going belly up. The end of 04, back in court again, explained to the judge how things were going, asked them if they have had the time to do a review of my case. The child-support lawyer said “he needs to be thrown in jail.” And yes, within 2 weeks of jail, Katrina happened along with 5 other hurricanes and a tidal wave in India that killed over 200,000 people, all within the 6 months I was locked away. I had some time to ponder and to relate events by balance. Seems a bit out of balance on the reaction side until I learned about how many people were also receiving the same In-justice. In 05, I got out and tried to restart my life with nothing. Everything had been sold, all the friends lost. Zero help other than family. My new title in life is “Dead Beat Dad” and this is acceptable in court and in the media. So after failing 3 more times at trying to survive in 08 I tried to get the Review / modification 2 more times. Even had the nearest child-support office do the paper work and send it through and keep track of it and it was DENIED. 7 days after the canceled review for the second attempt, the economic crash of the entire world. At this point a pattern is fully visible. With millions of people out of jobs, lose of homes and family's wrecked so begins full time freelancer work. Can't find a job, can't buy a job so working for myself became the only option. Very little money and very little work but to some people something is better than nothing. Throughout 09 I became fully dependent and totally unable to be independent. I was still sending what little money I was able to spare which has sent me backwards that much further. Now its 2010 and back to court again to explain all this wonderful mess to someone that will not hear one word and already intends on a course of action that has massive repercussions. Well nature itself has given a sign to me, it snowed and iced over ¾ of the state the very morning I was suppose to go to court. And within a matter of hours, earthquake in Haiti, possibly 500,000 dead or dying. We can pass this off as mere coincidence or spin it a thousand ways, but how many times in written history have we seen action gets reaction. By direct action or natural action, it does not matter. Life maintains a balance or life dies. It does not matter the reasons but the reactions have beheaded Kings, toppled entire civilizations and is the only guarantee that can end the human race.

more next.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 10:13 AM
One human with an idea is far more powerful than all the weapons ever created or any army that will ever exist. New ideas that allowed the United States to come into being has shown the world how far and how fast freedom of knowledge can change our world. Just the idea of what could be has created the world today, but what happens if someone is forced to envision something else. For instance a self inflicted trap? The more force is used the greater the counter force. Lets toss a rock in a bucket of water and it ripples and effects all the water. The water is the people, the rock is the idea. It doesn't matter if the idea is good or bad, all the water is effected just the same. Physics has everything to do with life, putting someone in jail without them being a criminal is just asking for problems. This has always been true throughout all written history.

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. --- I tried to get a review well over 16 times.
Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. --- it says ARMS, not guns. ARMS is ANYTHING that can be used as a weapon. From knife to nukes, they knew full well about bombs – cannons – they SAID “ARMS” - yes I'd be willing to put some kind of limits on this but what we have in place now is WRONG in any spin.
Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. - I have bad luck and I'm fairly stupid, OK you go to jail?
Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. - money in any form is property owned by the individual. Deducting TAX/garnishment from individual income is STEALING.
Amendment 6 - Right to Speedy Trial, Confrontation of Witnesses.
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense. - you asked for a lawyer because you don't have enough money ___DENIED__ but failure to pay court ordered amount carries a criminal punishment?
Amendment 8 - Cruel and Unusual Punishment.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. - Excessive (yeah right)- unusual punishments like “I got to sit in Jail for 6 months because he thinks he knows my abilities and the events that happen in my life better than I do?

yeah, i guess i shouldn't be allowed to do anything, next post.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 10:15 AM
Amendment 11 - Judicial Limits.
The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any Foreign State. - He actually said “OK then that number should work great, it will give you something to strive for.” might need to look at “ prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens, isn't the judge a citizen?

Amendment 16 - Status of Income Tax Clarified. Ratified 2/3/1913. Note History
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration. - I have looked and I am not able to find the supreme court Ratification 2/3/1913 for this amendment nor has anyone else for almost 100 years? Tax on the money you get, Tax when you spend that same money. Maybe my math and counting is wrong but that's Double TAX? Did we not go to War for that very reason during the 1700's?

Everything I have listed falls well within the message passed to all citizens - “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security”.

The people of the United States are completely ignored in today's world and it is the Right and Duty of the Citizens, to throw off such Government. Welfare, social security, cap and trade, child support, healthcare, IRS, Federal Reserve, Foreign Aid, Countless Government programs are not what Government is suppose to handle AT ALL OR EVER. Any one of these things listed are reason enough to Question abuses and usurpations. All together the list exceeds light and transient causes. I am aware that I am not alone is seeing and believing all that I have written. As stated if my life and experiences represent only 5 to 10% of the population of the United States that equals 20 to 40 million people. Now if myself and 40 million other people are wrong then all is well, but that is not the case in fact. I am not perfect nor am I the model citizen, but I know full well where the line between right and wrong resides. The Government has stepped, jumped, flew well over the line and is getting deeper behind it daily.

last post coming.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 10:18 AM
Do I actually need to ask anymore really STUPID questions or is it in plane view to see the government is already at war with the citizens. And yes it is War. If you don't see your freedom gone, and you see no reason to FIGHT then keep your head down, you deserve what you get.

One last thing to keep in mind, TERM LIMITS for all government, elected, appointed or hired. Max 8 years or some jobs like Judges MAX 4 years. This could and would clean up much of the disaster that has been bestowed on us all. As with the healthcare, it seems the government needs to clean up this mess before adding to it.

as anyone who gets this far should understand, I am a man without a country. i did not leave it, it left me.

so enjoy your HealthCare.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 12:05 PM
No where in that long, rambling, and at times incoherent rant, did I find anything resembling an argument against the current health care proposal. Having lived and, for a brief time, worked under a universal healthcare system, I can say unequivocally that the good it does outweighs the bad. No system is perfect, but a system relying on private companies to "do what's right" is simply ludicrous and irresponsible.

[edit on 1/15/2010 by VneZonyDostupa]

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 02:27 PM
yes, that warning is just that, exactly what the health care system will be like. i'm not really against it because i think everyone is due to experience the same BS that i have had to deal with. if i did my math right about 60 to 130 million people will be visiting the jails and half that number will never be able to become independent.

first off i would think it smart if they just did an area for about 5 years and if the system doesn't go broke, then start adding more areas. over the course of 10 years they could have everyone on it. but if it goes broke they should put in front of a firing squad for treason. I'm a full believer in capital punishment.

the part about --- No system is perfect, but a system relying on private companies to "do what's right" is simply ludicrous and irresponsible.

i don't agree with that. simple reason is i can think of about 5000 years that the only system was private. no cash no fix, simple easy, no debts. welfare for all is a bad idea (check California). no matter what system we build or get it will go broke and the debt will pile on high. other countries might be able to do it, but you need to take a long hard look at the crooks we have making a big mess of everything.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 03:01 PM
isn't this government health care free? What does this mean for medicare and medcaid? Do people on medicare get a choice to get the free government insurance. If it costs is it based upon your income? Does anyone know how this works exactly?
Are you really suggesting if you don't pay your health insurance you go to jail?

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 03:31 PM
according to the both bills, one says like 8k a year the other is 15k a year. they are looking for more money but if everyone is remotely close to me, the wishing well is dry. as far as the jail thing,, you can BET ON IT. if it passes and i do hope it does, I'm gone. i have a nice mountain top all picked out. it should be a great spot to watch the end of the USA..

if by chance you see me up there, yes that will be a smile on my face. and the middle finger extended.


posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 03:41 PM

Originally posted by Pewbert
according to the both bills, one says like 8k a year the other is 15k a year. they are looking for more money but if everyone is remotely close to me, the wishing well is dry. as far as the jail thing,, you can BET ON IT. if it passes and i do hope it does, I'm gone. i have a nice mountain top all picked out. it should be a great spot to watch the end of the USA..

if by chance you see me up there, yes that will be a smile on my face. and the middle finger extended.


A person pays $8,000 per year? This is not mandatory for everyone is it? I only make $8,000 per year? That would consume all my income. What sources can I reference to understand this better? So if a person does not pay for the government health insurance than they go to jail? This does not make sense to me?

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 05:02 PM
Wait a minute this new Obama Care does not solve our current health care problems. The current problem is that health care is not affordable and not all places take your health care.
For example; if you are in a car accident unconcious the ambulance will take you to the nearest hospital. That hospital does not take your insurance so you have a bill for the ambulance and er visit. If their main concern is unpaid hospital bills then every doctor or hospital needs to take all insurances.
Right now Drs run on panels; when their panels are filled up on certian insuraces they can not take anymore.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 05:08 PM
It appears you no longer like it or love it here. Then leave. A friend of mine in your situation did. He went to Australia with his software writing skills and a new wife and step children. He's happy.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 07:50 PM
link althcare-Subsidy

I have found these links. This sums up what they are talking about very nicely.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 07:52 PM

people are angry about this health care now I understand why.

[edit on 15-1-2010 by dreamseeker]

[edit on 15-1-2010 by dreamseeker]

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