Looking to be convinced...

Will you people please shut up with your "Jew-hater" insults? It is utter non-sense. There are no "Jew-haters" here. If you want to bash a Jew-hater, go find a Nazi rally or something.

Also, where exactly is the "hate" here? There is no hate, there is a very polite and interesting discussion, that is until a few people came in and started making false claims.

Saying things like:

"You're just as guilty as the Nazis."

"Jew-hater"

"Evil", "hateful"... etc.

Yeah, who's slinging the hate here, exactly?


Man, I am so sick to f-ing death of the insults, the bullying, the bullsh*t. Why is this never moderated? What the f*ck is going on here?

[edit on 20-1-2010 by SyphonX]

Originally posted by mmiichael

In 1933 Judea cannot declare war on Germany because there is no Judea. Get it?

Congratulations at narrowing your perception to view your point only. They called on all Jews around the world to boycott german goods and such. Economic war.

Further, a non-existent country has no guns, tanks, ships, army. So it can't really declare war.

Seriously you are missing the point. No one said they were going to attack with physical might. But through subversion and economic boycotting. Jews stick together no matter what, and there were a lot of influential Jews in German sciences, including militarily.

The article was about a boycott of goods. Something that happened routinely in the 1930s. More politely it was called trade embargoes, protectionist policies, etc.

Welcome to the point.

Frequently chronic Jew-haters, when not sampling fine brews in their trailer parks, skeedaddle to the local library and dig through 80 year old newspaper archives to look for propaganda pieces so they can embellish their pseudo-histories of Jews being responsible for their own persecution and mass murder.

Israel have been the cause of more wars in their short time frame than most countries in their entirety. Either actively or through subversion. MASSAD tagline is 'war by deception.' Get it?

Insecure, not too bright, impressionable people incapable of separating fact from fiction buy into this BS.

Don't be so hard on yourself. You can change.

AAC

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
I have read more about WWII and Holocaust than you could imagine.

If you actually had done that you would not be a holocaust denier!
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by dereks



I guess that is all you got. Resorting to repeating the same baseless proof.

Done with you, I guess.

AAC

As of yet I have not seen ONE credible post from the opposition.

It needn't be an argument. I issue a challenge to read the pdf document I posted on the previous page and come up with a sensible refutation.

YOU CAN NOT DO IT.

Repeatedly linking us the holocaust denial page on wikipedia, or excusing Jewry of their war because they have no tanks and planes (not in THEIR name) is frankly retarded.

You can not read sources and you accuse us of lacking reading comprehension. That's one of the funniest things I've seen on ATS.

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


I have been reading this thread, and I agree with you. When I was younger, I have been taught to believe that Germany/Hitler/Nazis was pure evil and was out to kill all the Jews. But I am not a child anymore and after reading so much, I realized that the atrocities done towards the Jews in Germany at the time was just the same as all the other atrocities done to prisoners of wars, but it wasn't systematic or a plan to wipe them off the planet. Rape, torture, corruption, etc.. all of these happens in any war.

We were made to believe that Hitler was a lunatic who all of sudden rose to power with a motive of wiping all the Jews off the planet. But after reading the events that led to WWII I do not believe that anymore.

I do not deny the events that happened in Germany, the torture, rape and abuse done to the Jews were real, but they weren't just the victims. This is not an isolated case, this happens in any war, but we were made to believe that the atrocities were specifically directed towards the Jews so we will sympathized with the Zionists agenda and agree that somehow they deserve to take Palestine.

Holocaust happens everyday, in Iraq, in Palestine and most of the middle east. This is exactly the purpose why they made us believe that the Holocaust in Germany was specifically directed towards the Jews, so we will overlook the atrocities being done now by "Israel" to the Palestinians.

I enjoyed reading your posts, do not be disheartened because there are so many who will disagree, rather write for those who wants to see an alternative view.

S&F

reply to post by boniknik


Thanks for the kind words. I realized it would be hard to stage this sort of debate. However, I feel these hard questions should be asked about all truth. I am not sold on any one side of the debate, however I am leaning towards an exaggeration of the atrocities by those who hoped to benefit from them.

AAC

"There were not enough trucks to take the soldiers to the front but they had enough to take the Jews to the camps."

news.bbc.co.uk...



No trucks for you... nevermind that we are losing the war.

[edit on 2010/1/27 by SteveR]

I dont think your going to find what your looking for here....or anywhere.


only because it seems more liek you don't want to be convinced of anything. On the contrary it seems you are attempting to persuade people to the other side of this argument....



[edit on 27-1-2010 by LiveLoveBurnDie]

reply to post by LiveLoveBurnDie


Did you read the entire thread? If so, you have a reading comprehension issue. You assertion is without merit. If you think otherwise, I will ask you the same question I have been asking... prove it.

Please read thread first so that you're not redundant and post evidence that has already proven to be unreliable.

AAC

reply to post by SteveR


A few things that I found interesting about her testimony were:

"We had no idea where we were going,"

"There were not enough trucks to take the soldiers to the front but they had enough to take the Jews to the camps."

"We were so traumatised we could not even think."

"At this moment it was life or death, but we didn't know it," she says.

"My mother, younger sister and brother were sent to the left and taken to the crematorium. I and my two other sisters were taken to the right," she continues.

However, I really respected this quote.

"It's important to be tolerant with each other. It makes no difference what religion you are or the colour of your skin."

If Nazis wanted to exterminate Jews. Only true jews are represented by the mothers. Why not kill all women and force the men to labor camps? To me, just sounds like a horrible experience at a POW labor camp.

AAC

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


I think you are right.

Looking in from the military logistic perspective, I find it almost inconcievable that the Nazis would put their Army on hold during critical times to ferry more jews to the camps. The Soviets were invading Germany gaining on Berlin day by day and we are supposed to believe the final solution had the logistic priority. I guess the re-writers had to support the 6 million figure somehow.

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
You realy believe that the Holocaust didnt happen? I think you have spent too much time on this site. Are you saying that 6,000,000 jews didnt die in the consentration camps? No gas chambers? No evil expierements?

Why would someone make up a story like that for? Seriously. How long has this ben in your head? Three or four months maybe? Im a little astonished and speachless to tell you the truth. But its late and i got to go to work in the morning.

No holocaust.....

[shakes head]

MessOnTheFED!

Had to add another one of these---->

[edit on 14-1-2010 by MessOnTheFED!]

Well, in fact there exists plenty of evidence to the contrary....

Is the Holocaust a Hoax?

Holocaust Didn't Happen?!

OFFICIAL RECORDS FROM INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS PROVE "HOLOCAUST" WAS A FRAUD

The Rudolf Report Expert Report on Chemical and Technical Aspects of the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz

The Chemical & Toxicological Impossibility Of The Auschwitz Gas Chamber Legend







The thing is, you begin to research something, and then you find thousands of pages and documents that prove it did not happen, and precious few that prove it did happen. Personally, I do not believe it happened anything like the Jewish People say it did, I think it was in fact a scam, to make the world feel sorry for the Jews, to punish the German for the war, and so Britain and America could make a Jewish State, which they did in 1948. To each their own.

reply to post by SteveR



If I am in fact wrong, and Nazis did want to transfer all their resources to exterminate jews, why were there still jews alive when they were liberated? I cannot find an answer to this question...

AAC

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


That's right. 7000 were found alive in Auschwitz, many more had died due to disease. 60,000 were found alive in Bergen-Belsen. I have found nothing about an interrupted supply of Zyklon B or insufficient output of the chemical.

If these were death camps, why did the Allies not bomb them? Or send a night operation to liberate? Or even intelligence operatives to document on the ground? They certainly knew of the existance of these camps as photo reconaissance shows, and they claimed to have known about the extermination process all along. Alas, the genocide of the Jews was of no interest to either Churchhill or Roosevelt. It simply did not become an issue until after the war. I find that very strange, usually evils by the opposing side are exploited to the fullest in propaganda.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
reply to post by SteveR

 

If I am in fact wrong, and Nazis did want to transfer all their resources to exterminate jews, why were there still jews alive when they were liberated? I cannot find an answer to this question...

AAC

Why transfer them at all if you wish to kill them? Please, nobody say to steal their gold capped teeth.

Why feed and delouse them?

Why cremate bodies one at a time?

Why not welcome further study and investigation like every other historic event?

Why not treat all mass killings like this?

Why commit your own genocides after the personal experience of it?

Why herd some people into showers to kill them with gas?

Why worry about hiding truth when it can't be scrutinized?

Why change the body count so often?

Why turn a census into consensus?

Why was this the only death statistics mistake in the World Almanac?

Hans Günther, a prominent Nazi that denied the Holocaust until his death in 1968.

en.wikipedia.org...

I found this of interest;

In March 1941, he was received as an honored guest for the opening conference of Alfred Rosenberg's "Institute for the Study of the Jewish Question". At the conference the obliteration of Jewish identity, or "people death" (Volkstod) of the Jews was discussed. Various proposals were made, including the "pauperization of European Jews and hard labor in massive camps in Poland".

Auschwitz was a labor camp.