No Electronics, No EM, No Revolt Can Win

This is not going to be a How to, nor is it my Intent to encourage anyone to "do this at home" But rather a simple commentary in regards to Revolution Threads, Gun Control and other similar topics making the rounds.

Guns have little meaning in a revolt these days against a Modern State like the USA

The real weapon of Today is Electronic in nature and Energy related.

What the USA's population lacks as a whole is Hard Science capacity, any revolt in this country will fail as a certainty...

People think Guns will be useful...

But how much use is a Rifle at night vs even an ordinary police chopper with alternating blinding lights and infra red and a sniper on board?

Useless for 99% of people, you'd need to be one damn good shot in the dark...

The problem fighting back....

1: If an area goes wild, they can simply shut the power and they can see at night and 99% of the rest of us can't

2: they have Radio to call in men to specific locations

3: data bases of info on WHO to look for

4: the high ground via both Air and Night Sight


To fight back, you need a strong science background...

People fear loss of Guns...

But which would you rather have during a revolt?

A: a Rocket Launcher

or

B: The capacity to set off a small EM bomb and fry all their radios, communication devices, knock any choppers from the sky and shut off all local computers and cameras?

How scary is a Cop Car blocking a road with no air support, no cameras to record you, no radio to call more men?

Answer? Not even scary to a lone guy with a Hunting bow... he's a sitting duck without the computers and power running...

ONE EM pulse over a town... every cop car is toast every chopper, but the public would have a ton of vehicles that lack computer chips that could still run... lots of old trucks, you'd own the high ground...


All i'm saying....

Is that there is NO HOPE for revolution atm...

They already took something far more potent than guns...

They took science from the curriculum and painted Geeks in a negative light, those with Guns vs Satellites and computers and NLW tech are hopeless in a fight...

Just think it bears saying, to fight back...

You have to go off the grid, understand and develop power sources and batteries that can power you off the grid and arm yourself via Computer, Via Directed energy like Microwave and via the capacity to knock out things like d bases of your info and radio communications and to take down those choppers...

50 cops with Chopper support and Cars can hold a town of 5000 indefinitely

50 Cops without that radio and air support can't hold the front of the Mall even if all your left to fight with is pitchforks and fire

So the REAL answer...

Is the modern Bow of sorts

Like the story of Robin Hood .... How new bow strings could pierce the Knights Armor and leveled the playing field...

You couldn't have fought the Knights without the new Bows...

Likewise you can't fight an electronic army with just bullets... your going to need Power and Electronic counter measures, Jow Average American simply doesn't know how to turn his microwave into something that can down a chopper.... and even if he did, they can simply cut the power on him...

Until THAT is changed, until green off the grid energy and battery tech is available, your basically a heat blip on a guys screen 7 miles away that CAN nail you...

The edge they have, is science...

The power they have is electronic...

Until we push for Science standards in Education and drop the power Monopolies from our lives they have the win, there is no fight to be had...

Just saying... This isn't about a few converted automatic weapons, so long as they hold the power lines and electronic high ground any thoughts of revolt are Moot

Useless for one or a handful either, The American Public at large would have to have the knowledge and capacity to fight against the kind of weapons being used and mainly the power..is power, energy and electronics, from security systems, to satellites and radios and computer operated Choppers...

Pulling the power cord somehow, that is the only actual way and it would have to be in the methods and hands of the whole revolt... not just the handful of people that could pull it off now...











[edit on 13-1-2010 by mopusvindictus]

reply to post by mopusvindictus


your right, except for this, Techonology as flaws, as a former soldier who fought in Iraq I learned this. I also learned how the defeated our tech an d in the process learned how to my self..... Its easy to do=)

Mopus, if small arms are so easily beaten, how is Afghanistan fighters doing it?

As poedxsoldiervet has stated, any advanced weapons system has its flaws or its counter.

The shutdown of power and water would be the governments biggest weapon in a revolution in the US.

What the government would need to worry about though is the same thing. They would be dug in also. Command and control would be the revolutionaries only targets. All else would be fluff. Where the government would have to take out all resistance, the revolutionaries would only have to take out the heads of the beast.

All this being said, I Saltheart am a kindly giant, and would just vote all the bastards out first.

In the opening days of the Iraq war didn't they drop tons and tons of fiberglass or some other kind of fibers to short-out all the power lines?
Also, how do you turn a microwave oven into a directional beam emitter? Is it something to do with disabling the microwave scatterer?

[edit on 13-1-2010 by dashen]

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


Yes... this is the basis of the thread...

And I am NOT advocating revolution (this is like fantasy football of the apocalypse for me)

None the less, weekly if not daily there are threads in regards to gun control and threads in regards to revolution.

I agree for Me, mastery of the technology is both available and doable, obviously the same already applies to you.

There are terrible flaws and weaknesses, our power grid can be knocked out with very little a few lost plants could in theory overload the nation the way the grid is currently set up just for starters...

We are impossibly dependent on electronics computers and for war radio, it's not anything beyond college science in the right areas...

None the less...

The typical American can't do algebra to save their own life...

To fight a revolution these days your just going to have to deal with the situation.

We all know the reality...

No one would be afraid of 2 cops showing up at their door.... IF they didn't have access to that radio and the ability to call in the chopper and support...

This to me is the real battle, you can always find ways in this society to make weapons to fight, good ones in fact... banning guns with a couple Billion of them loose around the nation is not the big deal... that's an emotion a personal empowerment issue...

The real concern is what can electronically be brought to bare...

If they can send your photo around the Nation and label you a monster on Tv it's a hopeless cause to even try and fight...

Without even going into EM pulses and stuff...

I simply feel the fight for the right to Knowledge has become far more important than the fight for guns...

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Wow man that makes sense.

I've always thought that people are crazy if they believe a revolt would do anything but get them and their family killed.

The advantages of the Military seem to far out weigh any capability of the public for defense. I mean our military has been doing this professionally for what almost 300 years?

I believe that peoples biggest disadvantage lies in education just as you've said. With out education, intelligence is moot. People would be so bewildered they would have no clue what to do. And the people with guns, not that I don't trust their intentions, but I believe they would do more harm then good.

It really is a tech advantage, but just as much so an organizational advantage.

I like this though....it's A-team....blow up everything, but no one gets hurt.

Good Job

Peace

reply to post by mopusvindictus



Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq again, somalia....

these are not highly technologically advanced countries, and they have faired just fine against the technological juggernaut which is the US.

Reliance on tech is a weakness, not a strength.

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


Please, English is my second language, and I really appreciate when people correct me, I can always learn more. So I hope you will not mind.

Here it is:

"You're correct" is a shorter version of: "You are correct" ("I'm, You're, We're, They're")
"Your correct" means nothing, as "your" is a possessive pronoun, here they are:
"My, Your, His, Hers, Its, Our, Your, Their". That means something belongs to somebody.

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


Great name btw.... Thomas Covenant... I Love it!

You could survive, you have the terrain to hide out in this country just like Afghanistan or Vietnam respectively...

But survival isn't a WIN is all i'd say...

Thousands of rouge guys you can't flush out of the Rockies for example isn't exactly the kind of life most of us would imagine...

For the rest just like in Afghanistan the Hummer sits outside, the fake govt is in "power"

And under those conditions you will have like they do, legal or illegal.... a supply of ammo and fire power to survive via supporters...

But that is a far cry from taking back control...

To do that I simply maintain, your going to need to HACK the Media, kill their Radios and jam the missiles and drones and choppers from the sky....

Microwave weapons and EM is all I see for the Win in that kind of fight...

It is actually our Army's greatest weakness and our biggest fear, the reason we concern of Iran for example having an A bomb.... they don't need to hit the USA they need to air burst 2... One over our nearest fleet another over Iraq and it's a ground fight... (there are other ways) like a burst over Europe...

But we think of a Nuke as a city destroyer, in reality, the right kind with the right altitude and large enough EM pulse you can take down America for all intents and purposes... or a whole fleet etc, etc...


Even miniaturized, a single city zone....

would would be left?

No computer access for the police? No working car engines? Few if any radios?

You could never hold the population in check...

Afghanistan...

Sure they are alive...

But have they had A LIFE?

We hold them in check not developing with no society with less men than the biggest rock concert has gathered....

They could do the same here indefinitely.... "we lost Philadelphia" General "okay.... Shut the Power...."

Your screwed it's over for all intents and purposes of having a normal life, you survive but win nothing, not your freedom, not anything...

They have the Will

They defend their own land...

But what can they do< burst out once a week from behind a rock loose a few more men, make it costly?

Nope...

Without the Electronic capacity this can stay this way forever...

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Read what I wrote above...

I agree, reliance on tech is a weakness... it's the weakness you need to exploit for victory...

You refer to these people as having WON

But they never did, we are free to lob cruise missiles at will

A WIN, in America would be gaining control of the Govt, returning things to the people...

Loose gooses in the woods..."holding on"

That's not winning, that's survival, that's not returning HOME

All respect to those who survive under those conditions...

That's NOT what your in the fight for, your in the fight to Get your Life and Freedom, until you can expel the enemy for real and for good, your just a Fighter...

When you have a genuine counter measure readily available to things like stealth fighters, cruise missiles and choppers... then you have something...

Until then your a brave soul hiding in a Cave or behind a Tree, respectable... but not a Victory in a revolution or war.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


I dont think anyone wins in a war. Sometimes the objective is obtained, sometimes it isnt. If the objective is to wipe out all dissenters, and I stay alive in a cave, they are not obtaining their objective.

Freedom is life. Living in a modern society is a convenience. Conveniences are not rights.

[edit on 13-1-2010 by captaintyinknots]

reply to post by dashen


Wouldn't wish to comment on HOW exactly, somehow I think that would be crossing a line... I'd just say that part in the end is easy...

The real obstacle would be how to power it...

I would have to say, the real reason alternative energy is held back is that they simply do not want free electricity or good portable electricity available to the public...

Any device you build needs the right Battery...

A dare say

The Arrow of this Century

Will Look a Lot like a Duracell with a kick to it...

reply to post by captaintyinknots


True True and that hope being what it is, I do not wish to dash or put it down...

But that's an ugly outcome...

I'm talking about History

I'm talking about periods of Time in which the establishment has held a strong upper hand until....such a time as the people found a way to fight back, like the story of Robin Hood I used as an example...

They simply could not pierce the Armor.... until, innovation led to better bow strings...

This is US today, right now...

If you want the people to have control over the establishment...

Your going to need a small Battery that can put out a lot of juice...

If someone finds an easy way to produce zero point energy in a portable device, the People of Earth go free until another time...

reply to post by mopusvindictus


That's why I stated that they would have to be in bunkers. They would be the ones losing the most. Their freedom.

The revolutionaries would be back to the early 1900's.

I could think of numerous movie scenarios what the US would look like.

The US is huge. The only way they maintain control is if this never happens. I have a feeling we are going to go into the 2 steps back mode. Meaning 3 steps forward and 2 steps back scenario.

Hate to derail the thread so I will leave it there. Will keep an eye on the thread though, interesting discussion.

I agree to not tangent.... but would they have to be in bunkers?

How exactly do you march on a white house surrounded by Abrams with night vision and Choppers with same?

In any of these Nation States with small arms we fight how often do they actually get even near a ship or base? Sure it happens but it's a rare rare moment...

And a bunker...

Can be a pleasure palace quite frankly...

I don't know my friend, a lot of these guys are weird, control freaks, more than one "elite" for lack of a better word won't even fly, Cheney didn't seem to have much issue with spending half his life inside Mt Weather...

Again... I'm one to throw up the brave survival talk and capable of it too...

None the less, that life basically sucks...

I have to maintain the way to beat them is via technology over bloodshed... Mainly because that's all they have over us...

If you can fry the computers, you have it...



[edit on 13-1-2010 by mopusvindictus]

An EMP attack damages all unprotected electronic equipment within the blast's "line of sight" (the EMP's "footprint" on the earth's surface). The size of the footprint is determined by the altitude of the explosion. The higher the altitude, the greater the land area affected. A Scud-type ballistic missile launched from a vessel in U.S. coastal waters and detonated at an altitude of 95 miles could degrade electronic systems across one-quarter of the United States. A more powerful missile launched from North Korea could probably deliver a warhead 300 miles above America--enough to degrade the electronic systems across the entire continental United States. Furthermore, a nuclear weapon with only a low explosive yield could be designed to generate a strong EMP. In fact, crude weapons with low yields, such as those used against Japan in World War II, would have ample power to generate an EMP over the entire continental United States.

So according to the experts a device no more powerful than Hiroshima could wipe the EC of the USA

What it fails to mention is that the way our grid is set up the rest of the country and much of if not all of Canada would go down too...

Along with that satellite tracking and control, military aircraft, helicopters any car on EC with a solenoid or chip...

Can this be built without a NUKE?

YES

Non-nuclear EMP Weapons The United States most likely has EMP weapons in its arsenal, but it's not clear in what form. Much of the United States' EMP research has involved high power microwaves (HPMs). Reporters have widely speculated that they do exist and that such weapons could be used in a war with Iraq. Most likely, the United States' HPM e-bombs aren't really bombs at all. They're probably more like super powerful microwave ovens that can generate a concentrated beam of microwave energy. One possibility is the HPM device would be mounted to a cruise missile, disrupting ground targets from above. This technology is advanced and expensive and so would be inaccessible to military forces without considerable resources. But that's only one piece of the e-bomb story. Using inexpensive supplies and rudimentary engineering knowledge, a terrorist organization could easily construct a dangerous e-bomb device. In late September 2001, Popular Mechanics published an article outlining this possibility. The article focused on flux compression generator bombs (FCGs), which date back to the 1950s. This sort of e-bomb has a fairly simple, potentially inexpensive design, illustrated below. (This conceptual bomb design comes from this report written by Carlo Kopp, a defense analyst. The design concept has been widely available to the public for some time. Nobody would be able to construct a functioning e-bomb from this description alone).

Ebomb

Not exactly a huge secret...

What you need, is the right batteries to become available...

Obviously to a degree they already exist...

But this is why I believe that we are enslaved to Big Oil and other Energy providers...

Big Batteries inevitably = a return of power to the people...

Look how crazy they get over a hand held Co2 Lazer being pointed at a plane...

What if you could up the power by 10x in a hand held device...

Bye bye USA air superiority in one day...

Another bit of interesting info

Such a high frequency pulse can pass through faraday cages used to ground electromagnetic energy from lightening. However, even if the cages were effective they would still be easily bypassed since any wires running from the devices within them would act as antennae and conduct the high transient voltage. There is also a so called 'late-time EMP effect.' This refers to the observations of EMPs creating localized magnetic fields within electrical systems they pass through that soon collapse sending huge surges through power and telecommunication infrastructure. This sparks a chain reaction in which all devices attached to these lines will be rendered useless by the massive surge. Such FCGs can be made with basic electrical materials, plastic explosives and readily available machine tools and can be smaller than a suitcase. The fact that this weapon is so startlingly simple to construct and can potentially be so devastating to our society coupled with the terrorist attacks of September 11th constitutes a wake up call to our national defense planners. Terrorists have proven that they are serious, now we must prove ourselves up to the task of planning for every contingency, including the dreaded scenario of a weapon that could propel our society back two-hundred years to an age devoid of electricity.

Shielding wont necessarily work...

I have to say...

Isn't it insane that we spend so much in prep for war, yet a single bomb can basically wipe us out? Not literally but back to the stone age for all intents and purposes...