Islam4UK to be banned under terror laws.

news.bbc.co.uk...

A radical Islamist group that planned a march through Wootton Bassett will be banned under counter-terrorism laws, Home Secretary Alan Johnson has said.

Islam4UK had planned the protest at the Wiltshire town to honour Muslims killed in the Afghanistan conflict.

Hmm, i kind of agree with this but at the same time i worry about freedom of speech too.

Don't get me wrong, the last thing i want are backward Islamic types insulting our citizens and soldiers, but at the end of the day -they are only words...

reply to post by mr-lizard


I think they were banned as much for their fanatical beliefs - like campaigning for sharia law, wanting all British women to wear burkas, their known terrorist links etc.. It wasn't just to do with speaking out on our military involvement. In fact many people share their views on Iraq etc.

They are back online though who knows for how long.
www.islam4uk.com...

Take particular note of the last paragraph.

'Therefore, we will one day liberate our land from occupation and implement the Shari.ah not just in Muslim countries but also right here in Great Britain. This is something that we believe in, live by and hope that in our lifetime we will witness'.






[edit on 12-1-2010 by unicorn1]

How dare anyone that values our freedom to be in favor of this ban. Once again, a government body has deemed an entire group of people as terrorists and therefore has also stripped them of their inherent right to peaceful protest and freedom of speech.

Who else is going to be considered a terrorist group? What's next -- a statement saying that to be fair to "banned" groups, NO protests will be permitted?

WAKE UP! These ever-growing, numerous, behind every door and window "terrorist" groups are a SCAPEGOAT for removing our freedoms one by one.

There were many more ways, LAWFUL WAYS, to controlling this group's protest than to ban it altogether. And I'm sure their reaction to this will be to just stay home and keep quiet instead.

Give me a break. This is a clear process to two results: removing our freedoms and inciting a reaction from what they are calling a terrorist group.

And to the above poster -- so what if they want women to wear burkas? SO WHAT? Is this really any different that any group that tries to gather public support and interest? When Lance Armstrong was pushing his rubber bracelets on everyone -- how is that really different? They want us to wear burkas and we still (so far) have the right to say "no thank you." But don't you think preventing anyone from making the statements shows weakness and gives them power? If they weren't concerned anyone would listen -- they wouldn't care what they said. I say let them speak and let us show them we are not interested in their way of life but will be tolerant of it in the name of democracy and free choice. Stifling the voice of any group or person will do nothing more than make them even more determined to get their message out -- any way they can.

I read this in the morning and i was thinking about starting a thread on it but much like the OP i was torn on the issue.
Obviously this group was instigating and provoking a reaction from the citizens. The leader says he will not stop preaching for the laws and lifestyle he sees fit. Especially in the hotbed that is the UK right now with all the terroist threats over cartoons or opinions you can empathise that they have had enough and choose to make a stand.
The other side of me is a massive supporter of free speech and freedom to assemble. The thing with this instance is they dont believ in free speech, the wish is to be the censors of society with Sharia law.
So is it immoral to censor an organization that abuses the rights given to the citizens to promote censoriship?

Can i censor a person who is freely speaking about a desire to censor us all?? Theres a moral pickle.

reply to post by mr-lizard


I know quite alot of people who was going to go but not for the march but because they disagreed and was maybe looking for a bit of trouble which this march would have definitely got) so i never thought it was going to go ahead simply because of health and safety reasons.

But im not sure where I lie aswell because I too think that everyone should be able to express themselves but then again what these guys on the march was spreading was just pure hate.

I agree in labelling them a terrorist group.
If their goal is to make everyone live by their laws then that kind of reminds me of the Hitler mentality.
Inflicting one's culture on another is insecure and weak.
Trying to make non-muslim countries muslim is intrusive just like going to a muslim country and trying to make them live like the western world is.
Good for Great Britain!!
Enough politically correct BS....shut them down.

Originally posted by unicorn1

'Therefore, we will one day liberate our land from occupation and implement the Shari.ah not just in Muslim countries but also right here in Great Britain. This is something that we believe in, live by and hope that in our lifetime we will witness'.

Good luck to them then, because it'll take a HELL of a lot to convert a nation built on bacon butties and binge drinking to convert to their silly ways.

No offence, but i rather like the taste of real ale, i like ladies in short skirts and the louder the music the better.

Sorry islam but you'd have a better chance of converting the pope.

No moral pickle for me.
Lots of us actually share their views about Afghanistan etc. But this group is actively trying to make the UK an Islamic state. They are both poisonous and dangerous.
Ha ha Mr Lizard. I'll pass on the ladies in short skirts (men in shorts?).
Bacon butties rule OK!


[edit on 12-1-2010 by unicorn1]

reply to post by unicorn1


I believe this to be my biggest objection to this group as well. They are actively trying to convert laws and social norms of a culture that is not theirs. From my own research, and the people form the UK on here you can tell that the immigration into the UK was not for the purpose to assimilate but to dominate.
I believe very strongly in melting pot societies, i come from one, the most important factor in this is to each their own. If you wish to practice anything that is your right, do not try to influence others, and do not take advantage of a system that is in place that gives you the freedom to practice whatever you choose.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Hooray finally, are there British people marching round the middle east chanting you should all be Christian or you're gonna burn and God will be really miffed.

No there aren't so why do we have to put up with this crap?

People don't tolerate Christians doing it in their town centre, some 60 year old loon stood on a box shouting about Jesus, I'm looking for PS3 games I don't want hear that crap, same with Jehova's knocking on my door while I'm eating lunch.

What if I went and knocked on their door during meal time and started chatting to them about something they obviously don't care about otherwise they'd already be involved in it. Or if I stand at the side of the road chanting that they should all get rid of their robes and wear Adidas or they're gonna burn in holy fire. The robes are to help with sand and baking temperatures - 2 things clearly absent in Britain so why the hell are they still worn!?

People don't like religion of any kind pushed in their face, if they were interested they'd already be involved. Especially religion from a foreign country that is painted as extremist and/or fanatical quite often in our media.

When are people going to get this? This is no breach of freedom of speech. Marches like these are a breach of our peace


[edit on 12-1-2010 by ItsallCrazy]

Click here for more information.

Yeah, I'm going to have to say that if they're such huge fans of the system they're trying to implement, they should probably move their asses to somewhere its already in place. Radical Islam is an aberration, a blight on normal society, and is hardly the mark of an intelligent, forward-thinking person - go UK, ban their retarded little club.

Originally posted by lpowell0627

And to the above poster -- so what if they want women to wear burkas? SO WHAT? Is this really any different that any group that tries to gather public support and interest? When Lance Armstrong was pushing his rubber bracelets on everyone -- how is that really different?

Well, one is trying to raise cancer awareness, and to generally celebrate life and the accomplishments we're all capable of; the other is trying to support an Islamic state where you wouldn't really be able to celebrate much of anything worthwhile. I also noticed in your post that you were pretty set on the idea that "women can wear burkhas if they want." Ah, 'tis true, they can, but if the UK was just like these people want, I don't believe you'd see much else besides penguins running around. And Allah help you if you decide to speak out, because you see, Islamic law and culture isn't exactly framed on the concepts of tolerance or common sense. From what I've seen and experienced personally, it seems more framed around illiteracy and an irrational dislike of pigs.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Apparently Freedom of Association, a part of the 1st Amendment in the U.S., does not exist in the U.K., god what a hellhole.

I am no fan of religion and definitely no fan of Islam but this kind of government oppression is bad for the soul of a nation.

reply to post by lpowell0627


I am always bemused by people chanting for their "inalienable" rights, or saying there are lawful ways to dealing with this instead of a ban.

Please, point out to me the exact piece of either legislation, a Bill or a Decree that gives people the right to deliberately either cause or call for harm and distress to other people, or to call for the downfall of our society to be replaced by another.

The reason I ask is because I can provide examples of legislation, Bill's and decrees that say people CANNOT cause harm/distress to other people and CANNOT call for the downfall of our country and society. In effect, what these people say and campaign for is tantamount to Treason.

Well done to Labour for finally growing a pair. Too little too late though, as they were the silly leftist bastards who let them into the country in the first place.

reply to post by Bobbox1980


Copuld say the same about your nation, if I felt like being a git, but I won't.

You have the right to assemble and peacefully protest and this Group is free to do so (or was, anyway).

However, you DO NOT have the right to protest in such a manner that is likely to cause harm to property or person, that's called a riot and I believe such things are somewhat frowned upon in the fantastic nation that is the US of A. This is what their Wooten Basset march would have ended up doing and they knew it.

Also, they haven't been banned for the protest at all. They have been banned because there are proven links between them and other banned extremist groups and terrorist organistations.

They also call for the suppression of many liberties we take for granted, the freedom of women and the downfall of the State which is treason. I believe such things are too somewhat frowned upon in the US. I also know, for a fact, that groups such as Islam4UK are banned in other countries, even the US.

So, the moral of the story is: Check your facts before you spout your mouth off, otherwise you look like a right plonker.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by Bobbox1980

 

However, you DO NOT have the right to protest in such a manner that is likely to cause harm to property or person, that's called a riot and I believe such things are somewhat frowned upon in the fantastic nation that is the US of A. This is what their Wooten Basset march would have ended up doing and they knew it.

That's correct, and I wish our government had the stones to ban jackasses like the UK just did. But that won't happen, we've long since crossed the line where it's not appropriate to do anything if it's going to hurt someone's feeling. We've become a nation of nervous, weak-willed whiners who devote no attention to the things that matter and who no longer have the balls to do the right thing because it might piss some people off.

I sent this e-mail to Islam4uk and I am interested in there reply (if I get one) for that matter anyone who feels they can answer these questions without Islam bashing or crying rasist or you have islamaphobia.

Hi,

Whilst I support your right to free speach however much I don't like the message, I wonder how political, idelogicaly and democraticaly do you think that Sharia law for every one in the UK would be implamented?

Would you propose a democratic vote?

What if the majority of people refuse?

If it where to pass how do you see democracy continuing under Sharia law/Muslim rule when there are countries that all ready are under Sharia/muslim rule and there is no democracy?

Under Sharia law/muslim rule would you and I not automatically lose the same freedoms you are using to promote it?

As a non believer how will my use of free speach against Sharia law be treated if Sharia law where to be implamented?

There are about 65 million people in the UK of those less than 2 million are muslim so why try and as your site say " Go forth and procliam Islam whether the disbelivers like it or not"

Should'nt the other 63 million people be give advice,teachings on Islam to draw them to it other than forcing it apon them? Surley by forcing it on people whether they want it or not is hipocrictical of you as in doing so you are denying there freedom to choose whilst proclaiming yours has been taken away by the goverments ruling.



Thank you for reading and hopefully you can answer my questions

reply to post by jpmail


Excellent jpmail
I would be very interested in the reply!

Just wanted to add I found this www.islamtoday.com... it has a huge amount of information about Islam the laws ect and really opened my mind to how muslims should live and how they treat non belivers.

I am sad to add though its rarely been my experiance that Muslims actually follow there own religious laws properly.