Kalifornia Re-Institutes Slavery

reply to post by Detailed Perfection


Excellent, someone that cares to make a difference, in regards to running. Since you run your own business the W2 feasco would not affect you. I was talking in regards to the state taking more taxes than is stipulated by code so they can cover budget shortfalls and then maybe paying back with IOU's like they did last year.

You do know what I am talking about? I am sure you do, I am sure almost every Californian does. I was born in CA, Atwater to be exact, on the base there. I felt bad leaving my home state again this last time. Just could not put up with the ridiculous nature of the government and the crime (13 appliance thefts on one project-police could not spare any officers to patrol the area). I worked for a land development company as a site super and almost went to work for Fresno as a building inspector. Once I did the initial interview and asked questions about the position I told them I was not interested in working for government once I got the information.

Anyway, hope your state can pull out of the quagmire it has put itself into.

Originally posted by Majiq
First of all I can't see how having the employees come in on furlough fridays in exchange for an alternate day off later in the year can be equated to slavery.

Furthermore, have you been in a DMV lately? If these people would get off their a$$es and work at a snails pace at least then they wouldn't be so far behind as to have to work these days.

Well Majiq, in case you missed the original post, the Ukraine makes it clear that "alternate" day is about as likey to materialize as Santa Claus.

How exactly do you think the DMV is going to let all those workers go on furlough in the future if it is incapable of letting them go on furlough today?

Grade school logic says they can't.

Not unless they hire more workers!

But they can't hire more workers because they are broke!

I believe there is a difference between wage slavery and actual slavery, both are bad but the second is a crime against humanity. I really don't like what the State of California has done here, and I'd have some very serious questions for the union rep for those DMV workers! However I do not think it is a particularly communist act. In a free labor market such as the United States, the worker sells their labor to a firm of their own free will. If the California DMV is becoming a less desirable place to work, the workers who can attain better will vote with their feet. The workers who cannot find better employment, and this is one of the very cruel things in capitalism, simply will have to suffer through it. That is the capitalist system, survival of the best and brightest.

If for a second however you believe that this less-desirable work condition constitutes slavery, or even a horrible abuse of workers, take some time and read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle". Better yet Americans, take a trip to Milwaukee and go see the Black Holocaust Museum. It is morally disgusting to hear the situation in California being equated to the horrors of the past. It is wrong, to be sure, but you are comparing a mole hill to the biggest mountains in your nation's history.

Originally posted by ProjectJimmy
It is morally disgusting to hear the situation in California being equated to the horrors of the past.

LOL

What I find morally disgusting is CA withholding furlough time for the promise of furlough time in the future.

Something that logic and history tells us will never be granted. I find it morally disgusting that the CA state government is operating exactly like a former Soviet state.

reply to post by endisnighe

Taking a furlough? This has to do with being FORCED to work for free. Or did I miss something?

You missed the part that if they don't like it they can always quit and go try and find another job. Does that sound like slavery?

And you bringing up the expanded explanation of my quote reference only helps in my analogy.

They don't equate, they don't compare by a long shot. Marching people off to death and having to work a few days in exchange for paid days off latter does not equate at all, it's offensive to the memories of the victims of the Holocaust.

Who was it just earlier saying I want to bring back slavery?

You are the one that wants to replace the 13th Amendment, I would think you would be fine by this. (Oh that's right, it's not really slavery, so you wouldn't be fine by this would you? My mistake)

And here you are saying this is fine! Hypocrite much?

Yes, yes you are, but I won't hold it against you or anything.

As long as it goes to YOUR agenda ANYTHING is on the table! Even slavery! What a joke.

Well, this isn't about MY agenda. It's about California's agenda.

Originally posted by endisnighe
To all the people saying that because of the DMV are pathetic, sloven ingrates and deserve it, what do you do?

I will make sure to piss on you when your Fascist Government forces your company to make you work for free.

The old poem of They came for the communist first comes to mind.

Well it has happened to me, just last summer as a matter of fact. My vacation time was scheduled for the beginning of July, and I had to work because we were behind schedule. Didn't get my vacation time until the middle of August... Those Commie bastards...

reply to post by mnemeth1


You cannot be serious, please tell me you are joking? You laugh in the face of the horrors of slavery because of furlough time at the California DMV?

Watch out, if they change the special sauce on the Big Mac you'll probably think Stalin has come back to life and put gulags in Cleveland! Your priorities are disturbing, and your saying that California is now the same as a former Soviet state is utterly laughable. I've been to both and let me tell you, Hollywood is a little different than Pripyat. You keep forgetting what everyone here is trying to drill into the debate: Workers can quit, if they are qualified they will get better jobs, this is capitalism. California is not communist because it is capitalist.

Settle down a bit and realize what you are saying here.
I'll just ask this simply then: Do you, actually believe that what is going on at the California DMV is worse than or at parity with the enslaving of minorities in American history?

Secondly, do you actually believe that the current government of California is morally worse or at parity with those of former Soviet nations?

Originally posted by ProjectJimmy
Settle down a bit and realize what you are saying here.
I'll just ask this simply then: Do you, actually believe that what is going on at the California DMV is worse than or at parity with the enslaving of minorities in American history?

Secondly, do you actually believe that the current government of California is morally worse or at parity with those of former Soviet nations?

If history is to be our guide, I'd say its on parity.

The CA government is extorting work out of its employees for no cost. Its clear the government is financially insolvent. They must either lay those workers off and simply eliminate the bureaucratic overhead that makes those employees necessary, or it must pay the workers.

As the Ukraine shows us, the idea that they will somehow be able to give those workers future off time for the work they are doing now is ridiculous. If they can't afford it now, they will not be able to afford it later when things are even worse than they are now.

The state of CA is morally equivalent to the Ukraine.

There is no difference between what the Ukraine is doing and what CA is doing.

None.

reply to post by mnemeth1


I love how you dodged the first of my questions there, as for your second:

What you are working off of here is the idea that somehow everything that former Soviet states do is still for some reason Communist, and evil. Ukraine specifically is actually a capitalist economy and a pretty good one at that. It has the 29th biggest GDP in the world, and their system is nowhere near broken or dying. They had a 36.8% growth in average salary in 2008 while inflation was flat. Even today they have an amazingly low unemployment rate of 2.5% (all statistics courtesy of the US CIA)

They are far from the most evil in fact they are one of the best nations to come out of the former Soviet Union. Freedom House labels them a Free Nation, and the Council of Europe has "no concerns" with civil rights in Ukraine. Contrast this with Uzbekistan where people are boiled alive as a form of execution for labor organizers, or Kyrgyzstan, where torture, including screwing wood screws into the bones of the arm, is used to break striking workers.

In short, you are very wrong. You're still seeing the Red Menace of Communism around every corner. You are not being "guided by history", or logic, or fact, but hysteria and emotion. You can run and panic and rail all you want that the sky is falling, the system is failing and America is all wrong. The rest of us are going to keep on making the world go round, including the guys at your local DMV.

This isn't a real debate because there isn't a real issue here. You're just making up scary dragons out of windmills for you to slay. I'm done with this thread, cheers mate!

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Well Majiq, in case you missed the original post, the Ukraine makes it clear that "alternate" day is about as likey to materialize as Santa Claus.

Yes I did read the OP and I feel that something happening in the Ukraine doesn't make anything clear. By your logic I can say that the example I gave you of what happened to me last year makes it clear that they will get their days off.

How exactly do you think the DMV is going to let all those workers go on furlough in the future if it is incapable of letting them go on furlough today?

Because they made the mistake almost a year ago of giving the employees every Friday off, not just furlough Fridays. It caused everything to get backed up so now they will have to work every Friday to make up the work. Once the catch up furlough Fridays can be made up.

Grade school logic says they can't.

Not unless they hire more workers!

But they can't hire more workers because they are broke!

Or they could have the employees they currently have come in on Fridays to make up the work.

reply to post by endisnighe


I live in Texas, not California, sorry if my posts made it sound like I was in California dealing with this type of issue first hand. Also, thank you for the recognition of taking a stand and running for office. I have been trying to enourage people on ATS to take a stand and run for office in their communities for months. It's one thing to sit behind a keyboard and anonomously post about demanding change, it's quite another to take a stand and make those changes.

To the other poster arguing about the DMV employees never being able to collect their Furlough time that will be building up ...

The Cali DMV operated for nearly a year on a 4 day work week. Once the DMV has control of their backlogged workload and everything is running efficiently again, I'm sure these people will be allowed to collect on their built up Paid Time Off. Will they be able to take weeks off at a time? Probably not, because they'll just be pissing in the wind and creating another mess. But they will most deffinately be able to take a day or two here and there.

A member of my family works for TDCJ (Texas Department of Criminal Justice) in the prison system and they work the same deal that's being offered to the DMV Employees. In fact, she's built up so much PTO time that she can take off of work, with full pay & benefits, for 9 months. She's been working for the TDC for more than 25 years though, so she has had a lot of time to build it up. She and her husband are always taking a few weeks off at a time to go to the coast.

We have a local company here that offers their employees:
- Paid Insurance
- Competetive Wages
- 401K
- Overtime Pay
- Paid Time Off (Builds up every day)
- Paid Vacation
- Paid Holidays
- Paid Sick Days
- Tuition Reimbursement
- Unlimited Advancement regardless of educational background.
- Even the lowest paying job at the ompany makes $1.50 more than minimum wage and everyone is given a performance raise every 6 months. It may only be .10 cents or .25 cents and hour .. But it makes an employee feel good to be noticed and rewarded for doing their part.
Every year they have a company party for Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas. They give away door prizes, hand out gift cards and cash at the parties.
Annual company picnic at the park with free food and entertainment.
The company broadcasts it's own radio station and allow the mployees to set the playlist through their Local Area Network from their computers.

It's probably the most relaxed and laid back working environments I've ever seen. It's a multi-million dollar company, but the owners are the most down to earth and friendly people you'll ever meet.

My mother-in-law called me today and told me that they are looking for a machinist. I've been thinking about applying to help offset my campaign costs while I run for office.