Let us agree on something

Politicians are politicians. They are always going to be and it takes one to do a politicians job. The requirements of a poltician are to lie with a warm expression and a twinkle in the eye, to fullfill their personel, lobbyed, and payed for agendas. You show me a politician who has done the right thing legitamatly and with heart throughout their career (Within the last 40+ years, and i will show you what a stroke looks like.
What gets me the most is that these people are obviousy in the game for money and power. We all know that money + power = corruption. So why are so many people backing these politicians up, when over the years it has become far more apparent that they don't give a # about what they're doing with this country as long as they can secure their public image, a large enough following, and an even larger wallet. Oh yeah and their re-elections.
The responsablity has been taken away from the individual politician because people think they're rooting for a sports team. Everyone.....almost everyone just buys right into it. Go democrats, Go republicans. It's like the Giants playing the Jets or Yankees vs. the Mets; either way the score goes, New York wins....
Of course this is just a tiny little piece of the problems we're facing but it's still one of the worse.
We talk about revolution yet most are too scared to figure out where to start.

The day we see a politician that takes in no more a year than the average mid-class citizen, gets prosocuted for any political or fiscal connections with lobbyists, bankers, wallstreet execs, etc. Wieghs decisions with time and care to benefit the country as a whole from the ground up for stability, not from the top down for dependancy. One who will keep their dignity in the face of corruption and hold their purpose strong when offered the opportunity for greed. That will be the day when we have someone worthy of leading this country to the place it should be.
If a bill was presented with any one of those requirements, we would instantly see the official collapse of the democratic and republican partys into a single party opposing it while holding hands and singing...

This wasn't meant to be a rant.
The spelling&grammar could be better also, but....
If you agree and have something to add to this, please do.

reply to post by patent98310

Originally posted by patent98310
If you agree and have something to add to this, please do.

So someone who doesn't agree should not comment?

Originally posted by patent98310
We all know that money + power = corruption.

It isn't so. Money and power doesn't necessarily lead to corruption, but perhaps to influence, but not automaticly to corruption. It is the human factor that includes the vulnerability to corruption in your function.

We humans are the main contributors to suffering in the world. Many of the political ideologies could work flawlesly in realm of robots. We are the cause, not the system. Systems can be changed, yet it won't bring about the happiness, if the basic units are flawed.

-v

[edit on 22-11-2009 by v01i0]

Originally posted by patent98310
One who will keep their dignity in the face of corruption and hold their purpose strong when offered the opportunity for greed.

You won't even break into the system with that kind of integrity.

It's all based on the organizations you join and your connections. I am willing to bet there is NO One in any leadership position...whether corporation, religious, or political, who is not affiliated with some type of professional organization, society, or club.

From the top of the pyramid to the very lowest level, the wheels turn by obligation, favors, and blackmail. This is how things get done.

This evil has permeated every facet of society...and worldwide. It is not just "the elite" or "the politicians".

Many evil things are accomplished when those who are lower on the totem pole want to advance higher or attain monetary favors. The small deeds add up. This is why there will never be justice in this world. This is why it is said that everyone has their price.

alright you took all that way too literal. Sorry i didn't feel like writing everything out with an explanation for an explanation of every sentance.
I'm just saying that it's getting to a point where our politics are laughable. Do we even have expectations of our government anymore?
It's really getting to a sad point in American history.

here i'll fix it:
If you agree, or disagree, and have something to say please do.
Or don't, this site is becoming pretty funny. People end up quoting an unimportant part of the OP and go on about it almost like they skim through it and find parts they can pick at.

seriously, only reply if you read the whole thing.

reply to post by patent98310


I will happily agree with you, and a star and flag for the post. Have you ever looked up the definition of playing politics?

1. the science or art of political government.
2. the practice or profession of conducting political affairs.
3. political affairs: The advocated reforms have become embroiled in politics.
4. political methods or maneuvers: We could not approve of his politics in winning passage of the bill.
5. political principles or opinions: We avoided discussion of religion and politics. His politics are his own affair.
6. use of intrigue or strategy in obtaining any position of power or control, as in business, university, etc.
7. (initial capital letter, italics) a treatise (4th century b.c.) by Aristotle, dealing with the structure, organization, and administration of the state, esp. the city-state as known in ancient Greece.

play politics.
a. to engage in political intrigue, take advantage of a political situation or issue, resort to partisan politics, etc.; exploit a political system or political relationships.
b. to deal with people in an opportunistic, manipulative, or devious way, as for job advancement.

dictionary.reference.com...

some words to ponder....
"science or art"
"practice or profession"
"affairs"
"methods or maneuvers"
"intrigue or strategy"
"obtaining any position of power or control"
"administration of the state"
"to deal with people in an opportunistic, manipulative, or devious way"

This is why politicians attempt to stay in office for life, they get really good at manipulating things and people, and they make tons of money, and they wish to keep that position for as long as possible. Funny thing is, most politicians are also attorneys, and this is a crime, and against the Constitution.

For those who are curious about what I just said, here are some links that will make you angry....

The Original 13th Article of Amendment

THE LAWYER'S SECRET OATH

The Bankruptcy of The United States

Some politicians are Knights, too....

Knighthood - Swearing the Oath

reply to post by autowrench


Well said! I don't think there is even a reason to lengthen this thread. This is like a well put summary. Good post, autowrench. Starred.





[edit on 22-11-2009 by havok]

reply to post by patent98310


We have a two-party system because of the structure of our electoral process, you'd have to amend the constitution to completely destroy it. I also don't see why the wealth of modern politicians is any kind of proxy for their level of corruption.

I think the problem is the group of people we've selected, not the system itself. Americans are as uninformed as ever, despite public education, etc. When Americans are unable to mentally connect their policy preferences to the logical outcomes, we have a tendency to support candidates who represent contradictory (and basically dishonest) positions.

The only way to fix this problem is to encourage greater problem solving education, reduce the size of government to a manageable/understandable level, and encourage federalism or 'voting with your feet' as opposed to purely ballot box solutions.

Originally posted by snusfanatic
reply to post by patent98310

 

We have a two-party system because of the structure of our electoral process, you'd have to amend the constitution to completely destroy it. I also don't see why the wealth of modern politicians is any kind of proxy for their level of corruption.

This is demonstrably false. There is absolutely no language in the Constitution for the United States that mandates a two party system or any type of party system. In his farewell address of 1796 George Washington gave very dire and specific warnings against political parties. Here, in part, is what he had to say:

"I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the State, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally.

This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but, in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest rankness, and is truly their worst enemy.

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.

Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight), the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.

It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

There is an opinion that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the government and serve to keep alive the spirit of liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in governments of a monarchical cast, patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.

It is important, likewise, that the habits of thinking in a free country should inspire caution in those entrusted with its administration, to confine themselves within their respective constitutional spheres, avoiding in the exercise of the powers of one department to encroach upon another. The spirit of encroachment tends to consolidate the powers of all the departments in one, and thus to create, whatever the form of government, a real despotism. A just estimate of that love of power, and proneness to abuse it, which predominates in the human heart, is sufficient to satisfy us of the truth of this position. The necessity of reciprocal checks in the exercise of political power, by dividing and distributing it into different depositaries, and constituting each the guardian of the public weal against invasions by the others, has been evinced by experiments ancient and modern; some of them in our country and under our own eyes. To preserve them must be as necessary as to institute them. If, in the opinion of the people, the distribution or modification of the constitutional powers be in any particular wrong, let it be corrected by an amendment in the way which the Constitution designates. But let there be no change by usurpation; for though this, in one instance, may be the instrument of good, it is the customary weapon by which free governments are destroyed. The precedent must always greatly overbalance in permanent evil any partial or transient benefit, which the use can at any time yield. "

The people of the United States are not legally nor morally bound to any party system let alone a two party system. If they had to radically amend or alter the Constitution in order to end the two party system then how do you explain the long history of emerging parties in the U.S.? Indeed, the Republican party was not even founded until 1854, years later Theodore Roosevelt started the Bull Moose Party, Eugene Debs ran for President as a member of the Social Democratic Party, and more recently we have the Libertarians, the Green Party, Ross Perot's Reform Party and the Constitution Party to name just a few.

We the people of the United States may, at any time, with out altering or abolishing the Constitution elect a non party affiliated candidate to the office of President, to Congress or may elect one as Governor of a state or Mayor of a city and to the legislature of any given state. There is no law demanding the voters must elect only those candidates affiliated with a political party. Education indeed! Read the Constitution for the United States and come to understand it as that is the Supreme Law of the Land.

Originally posted by snusfanatic
reply to post by patent98310

 

We have a two-party system because of the structure of our electoral process, you'd have to amend the constitution to completely destroy it. I also don't see why the wealth of modern politicians is any kind of proxy for their level of corruption.

I think the problem is the group of people we've selected, not the system itself. Americans are as uninformed as ever, despite public education, etc. When Americans are unable to mentally connect their policy preferences to the logical outcomes, we have a tendency to support candidates who represent contradictory (and basically dishonest) positions.

The only way to fix this problem is to encourage greater problem solving education, reduce the size of government to a manageable/understandable level, and encourage federalism or 'voting with your feet' as opposed to purely ballot box solutions.

We have a 2 party system for lots of reasons... like the land of the free is one of the hardest nations to get on the ballot, and the establishment MSM lackeys treat 3rd party alternate candidates as negligible lepers with crazy ideas about not killing strangers for profit.

The main reason... the power structure is well schooled in "divide and conquer" aka "divide and rule". The old saying "united we stand, divided we fall" holds so true today, as divided nation we are falling into an abyss of bankruptcy, corruption and fascism.

For an immediate solution, I'd replace 1/3rd of congress with regular pot smoking, parking ticket getting, divorced, abortion having regular every day registered independents that don't have to pretend they're flawless... drafted to serve 1 term.. like paid jury duty. The GOP & DNC could get nothing passed without the citizen statesmen approval.

The GOP & DNC should also be charged $$ for ALL self serving air-time, if the douche & turd sandwich are on a so called news show ignoring the questions asked and doing nothing but belching out party propaganda talking points.. they should pay the same as any infomercial... a non partisan citizen jury will levy the fines.

Of course nothing close to this will ever happen, the power structure will pull off more 9/11s, start wars, spray us like insects.. whatever evil it takes to protect their stranglehold on power, all elitist options are always on the table.