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Azerbaijan threatens Armenia with 'military force'

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posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 12:16 PM
If there wasn't enough trouble in the world...

Azerbaijan threatens Armenia with 'military force'

Azerbaijan says it has "the full right" to resort to military action in order to liberate the Nagorno-Karabakh region, which it lost to Armenia in the 1990s.

Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev said on Friday that if an upcoming meeting with his Armenian counterpart ends short of a deal on the matter "then our hopes in negotiations will be exhausted and then we are left with no other option" than to reclaim the territory by force, the Reuters news agency reported.

"We are doing that because we never excluded and we do not exclude that option. We have the full right to liberate our land by military means," he added.

Azerbaijan lost control over the region in a rebellion by local Armenians, who were supported by Yerevan's military. The conflict killed tens of thousands of people rendering more than a million others homeless.

"That meeting must play a decisive role in the process of negotiations," the Azerbaijani president noted as he was preparing to attend talks with Armenia's Serzh Sargsyan in Munich on Sunday.

The international community has refused to recognize the de facto rule of the ensuing Nagorno-Karabakh Republic.

Basically, give us what we want now or we invade you... War have high chances of breaking out next week...

Will the nobel peace prize winner come to the rescue? Or he won't care because it's brown people killing each other? Or will he give help to whichever side to push US empire even closer and closer to Russia?

This could be another Kosovo?

(if Maloy is somewhere on ATS, I would be happy to hear his point of view)

[edit on 21-11-2009 by Vitchilo]

posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 01:27 PM
LOL, did you just say that brown Obama won't care because brown people are killing each other???

I mean, if you said Cheney I'd be right behind you, however, I believe Obama cares about "brown people" more than white people!

posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 01:31 PM
reply to post by breakingdradles

IMO he doesn't care about anyone, just his bosses. Obama doesn't care if it doesn't push his bosses agenda, which is total control of the planet.

posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 02:13 PM

Originally posted by Vitchilo
reply to post by breakingdradles

IMO he doesn't care about anyone, just his bosses. Obama doesn't care if it doesn't push his bosses agenda, which is total control of the planet.

I'll go with that.

I just figured he did due to his many years at Acorn, who does.

posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 04:28 PM
What no one has said yet....

Armenia is backed by Russia.

Azerbaijan is backed by Iran.

New player in the mix???

A wedge between Iran and Russia???

posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 07:30 PM

Originally posted by mrmonsoon

Azerbaijan is backed by Iran.

New player in the mix???

A wedge between Iran and Russia???

Absolutely incorrect. Iran is aligned with Armenia, not Azerbaijan.

posted on Nov, 22 2009 @ 09:59 AM
Basically this is an effort by Azerbaijan to exert some pressure over Armenia before the upcoming visit, and to demonstrate that Azerbaijan is not willing to improve relations with Armenia yet. So in other words the meetings between the two presidents is unlikely to yield any progress because it will already already start on a negative note.

War is very unlikely at this point for many reasons, and it is my opinion that this conflict will remain frozen for many more years. For one thing, Azerbaijan is as likely to lose a war today as it did in the 90's - assuming the fighting is limited to Armenia and Azerbaijan and neither is backed by outside allies. And in an unlikely case of such conflict, both sides' partners will probably not directly intervene because of a small desolate piece of land. Armenia in this case is a traditional ally of Russia (and Iran to a lesser degree), while Azerbaijan is allied with Turkey (and has recently been exploring relations with the US).

Fact is that Armenia is more moraly attached to the Nagorno-Karabakh region, while many Azerbaijani soldiers could not care less about it. For example in the last war, Armenians very morally motivated to fight, while many Azeries deserted from the army or retreated. The situation has not changed much. In case anyone doesn't know the story of Nagorno-Karabakh - basically it is ethnically and historically Armenian land that was given to Azerbaijan during border redrawing in Soviet era.

Now the major event to explain the aggressive talk by Azerbaijan, is the recent shift in relations between Armenia and Turkey. For more than a decade Turkey refused to trade and have political relations with Armenia, because Azerbaijan was its ally. A few weeks ago the leaders of Armenia and Turkey met in a historical event, and officially opened political relations, which gave a major boost to Armenia in terms of trade.

This very much angered Azerbaijan, to such an extent that its leader threated to restart the war. But all it is - is talk. Azerbaijan is not in a position to do anything right now, especially since they are less likely to receive backing from Turkey. Azeri President Aliyev is not psychopathic or impusive, like a certain leader from Georgia. Ultimately he cares more about business, and the billions his country is making selling oil and gas.

Now one interesting possible future turn of events to watch for, is an effort by Azerbaijan to find new allies, since Turkey grew tired of them. US has been growing more and more interested in the region, but so far Azerbaijan has been cautious to get involved in US's Great Game. This may push it over the edge, and it may become a US client state, in which case things may get very interesting. For one thing Azerbaijan is right on the border of Iran and Georgia, and for another it has access to the oil/gas rich Caspian Sea (the "jewel" of Central Asia).

posted on Nov, 22 2009 @ 10:20 AM
Are you all familiar with the Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce?

The United States-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce (USACC) is an "independent, non-profit American organization, whose purpose is to facilitate business and cooperation between the American people and the people of Azerbaijan," its website states. USACC is a nonprofit corporation in the District of Columbia and is recognized as a 501(c)(6) tax-exempt organization under the Internal Revenue Code.

Members have included:

James Addison: Co-chairman of the Iraq Study Group, connected to the Carlyle Group, family law firm Baker Botts defends Saudi Royal family in 9/11 law suits.

Brent Scowcroft: Close friend of Bush family, National Security Adviser to George H.W. Bush, member of the Council on Foreign Relations, affiliated with OILspace, founder of Scowcroft Group.

Dick Cheney: Former Vice President, senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, former head of Halliburton, Project for the New American Century member. Allegedly ran a covert assassination ring. Member of Council on Foreign Relations.

Zbigniew Brzezinski: Protege of Nelson Rockefeller and Paul H. Nitze (for all intents and purposes, Paul Nitze invented the Cold War and the Military-Industrial-Complex), director of the Trilateral Commission, National Security Adviser to George H.W. Bush, initiated funding of the Mujaheddin back in the 1980s. Coined the term "geo-politics", stated that control of the Middle East would be necessary for the dominant world power.

Henry Kissinger: Assistant to National Security Affairs to Richard Nixon, adviser to Ronald Reagan. Member of Council on Foreign Relations and Trilateral Commission. Protege of Nelson Rockefeller and identified as promoting state sponsored terrorism in Cambodia, Iran, South Africa, Bangladesh and "all the South American countries that suffered the dirty war of Plan Condor." Affiliated with Trireme Partners, founded by Richard Perle (Project for the New American Century). Connected to the Carlyle Group and had interest in developing Uzbekistan oil reserves with Maurice Greenberg (former head of AIG); a plan that would lead to collusion between Adnan Khashoggi (arms dealer for Iran-Contra, friend of Richard Perle and investor in Trireme and Carlyle Group), Enron, UNOCAL and the Taliban.

Richard L. Armitage: Deputy Secretary of State during George Bush's first term. Involved in the Valeria Plame affair, member of the Project for the New American Century. Former Halliburton consultant, member of the Council on Foreign Relations. Sat on the board of directors of the Nugan Hand Bank, a drug smuggling and money laundering bank that was a secret CIA front company whose other employees included Ted Shackley and rogue CIA agent Edwin Wilson

Pretty rotten chart of apples! And all for what?

Oil production and forecasts - Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan

posted on Nov, 22 2009 @ 10:31 AM
Thanks to Maloy and Someone336 for all your great input !!

Indeed, the US supporting Azerbaijan could create lots of tensions between Russia and the US... We'll see...

Turkey seems to have a new state of mind, developing relations with Iran, Armenia... they seems to leave the western influence more and more... And I understand them since the EU has been laughing at them for all those years.

posted on Nov, 22 2009 @ 11:43 AM
The Azeri regular army was 56,840 strong organized into five corps headquarters, 23 motor rifle brigades, one artillery brigade, one multiple rocket launcher brigade, and one anti-tank regiment. The military hardware of Azerbaijan consists of 220 Main Battle Tanks, 127 armoured infantry fighting vehicles, 468 Armoured Personnel Carriers and about 270 artillery pieces. The Azerbaijani Air Force has over 220 aircraft and more than 75 helicopters.

Armenia has 102 T-72 tanks, 72 heavy howitzers and 204 armoured vehicles (most of them infantry fighting vehicles and Armoured personnel carriers). Armenia has up to 700 armoured vehicles. Its artillery comprises 225 pieces of 122 mm and larger calibers, including 50 multiple rocket launchers. Armenia's Military is presently expanding , Its active forces now number about 60,000 soldiers, with an additional reserve of 32,000, and a "reserve of the reserve" of 350,000 troops. Armenia is prepared to mobilize every able-bodied man between the age of 15 and 49, with military preparedness most of all focused on potential attacks by Azerbaijan and Turkey. The Armenian Air Force relies upon the 18 MiG-29s of the Russian 102nd Military Base at Gyumri, its own smaller fleet of 15 Su-25 ground attack planes, a single MiG-25 jet fighter and twelve Mi-24 gunship helicopters (out of a total of 35) for the defense of Armenian airspace

there are 20,000 soldiers defending Nagorno-Karabakh. the Karabakh army's heavy military hardware includes: 316 tanks, 324 armored vehicles, 322 artillery pieces of calibers over 122 mm, 44 multiple rocket launchers, and a new anti-aircraft defense system. Battle of Susha Mardakert and Martuni Offensives Battle of Kelbajar 1993 Summer Offensives

The War was fought 1988-1994. The Armenian side saw 4-6,000 dead and 25,000 wounded, the Azeris saw 11-16,000 dead and 60,000 wounded. It really didnt make any sense for Georgia to start a war with south ossetia knowing the russians were there... so even tho it may not make sense for the Azeris to do so, they just might. the worst that could happen is they end up back where they are now.. with an armenian island in the middle of thier country.. they have US modernisation and training amongst theyre special forces and air force.. maybe theyre feeling spunky...

posted on Nov, 22 2009 @ 02:28 PM

Originally posted by migblitz

Originally posted by mrmonsoon

Azerbaijan is backed by Iran.

New player in the mix???

A wedge between Iran and Russia???

Absolutely incorrect. Iran is aligned with Armenia, not Azerbaijan.

Actually you are very mistaken.

When Armenia was battling it out with Azerbaijan over the enclave, they kicked their butts so bad, they threatened to take over the entire country.

Azerbaijan put Iranian troops on a main bridge separating where the Armenian troops were and the rest of Azerbaijan.

The point was if they killed Iranian troops, it would have brought Iran into their battles/war.

Also, Armenia is part of "the russian federation.

posted on Nov, 22 2009 @ 04:05 PM
Very interesting document : Congressional report on Azerbaijan - US relations

There's interesting info in there...

The military budget was about $800 million in 2007 and $2 billion in 2008. The legislature approved a $1.5 billion military budget for 2009 (about 10% of all budget expenditures), but President Aliyev stated in January 2009 that military spending would be $2.3 billion.

They tripled their military budget in 2 years... INSANE. They are planning something...

Azerbaijan has viewed Turkey as a major ally to balance Russian and Iranian influence, and Armenia’s ties with Russia.

And indeed Iran and Russia are supporting Armenia...but Russia and Azerbaijan do have let's say... not-so-cold relations.

Azerbaijan’s State Oil Company (SOCAR) and Russia’s Gazprom gas firm agreed in July 2009 that SOCAR would send 1.7 billion cubic feet of gas per year to Russia beginning in 2010. The gas would be transported by a 140-mile gas pipeline from Baku to Russia’s Dagestan Republic that was used until 2007 to supply Azerbaijan with up to 282.5 billion cubic feet of gas per year. SOCAR indicated that the volume of gas transported to Russia could increase in future years.

They have a big gas deal together...

The collapse of the Soviet Union and the NK conflict in the early 1990s contributed to the decline of Azerbaijan’s GDP by over 60% by 1995. The economy began to turn around in 1996-1997. GDP growth in 2006-2007 was estimated at more than 25% per year, which contributed to a rise in consumer price inflation to double digits.

1/4 of the population works abroad because of their high unemployment...

Richard Morningstar, the U.S. Special Envoy for Eurasian Energy,
stated that the Obama Administration supported the “Southern Corridor” program and considered “Eurasian energy issues to be of the highest importance.”

Obama's position... not very different from Bush's position..

Seems to me like this whole thing is a Georgia-South Ossetia-Abkhazia -like conflict... but in this one, no big power went to help one side...

The only sad thing in all this is that Turkey hasn't recognized the Armenian genocide yet...

posted on Nov, 22 2009 @ 04:58 PM
reply to post by Vitchilo

Of course Turkey and Azerbaijan have an alliance...

American-Turkish Council

The American-Turkish Council (ATC) is a business association dedicated to enhancing the promotion of US-Turkish Commercial, Defense, Technology and Cultural Relations in Washington DC.

Membership includes George Perlman (Lockheed Martin), Andy Button (Boeing), Richard Douglas (General Electric), John Miller (Raytheon), Selig Taubenlautt (Bechtel) and Brent Scowcroft of the US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce! FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds has a lot to say about the ATC in a Vanity Fair article:

In her secure testimony, Edmonds disclosed some of what she recalled hearing. In all, says a source who was present, she managed to listen to more than 40 of the Chicago recordings supplied by Robertz. Many involved an F.B.I. target at the city’s large Turkish Consulate, as well as members of the American-Turkish Consulate, as well as members of the American-Turkish Council and the Assembly of Turkish American Associates.

Some of the calls reportedly contained what sounded like references to large scale drug shipments and other crimes. To a person who knew nothing about their context, the details were confusing and it wasn’t always clear what might be significant. One name, however, apparently stood out – a man the Turkish callers often referred to by the nickname “Denny boy.” It was the Republican congressman from Illinois and Speaker of the House, Dennis Hastert. According to some of the wiretaps, the F.B.I.’s targets had arranged for tens of thousands of dollars to be paid to Hastert’s campaign funds in small checks. Under Federal Election Commission rules, donations of less than $200 are not required to be itemized in public filings.

An Inconvenient Patriot

Most interestingly, Joe Wilson met his wife, Valerie Plame, while working at the American-Turkish Council. Makes it that much stranger that US-Azerbaijan member Richard Armitage is suspected in the Plame affair, which may in itself be tied to the Niger Uranium Forgeries. Makes it that much stranger that one of the suspected forger of the yellow cake documents is one Michael Ledeen, possible member of the P2 Masonic lodge, Iran-Contra co-conspirator, member of the Project for the New American Century and suspected Israeli spy, who has also been pushing for military action with Iran for the past twenty years. This may play into this axis being formed between the US, Azerbaijan and Turkey, seemingly against the "growing threat" to Western supremacy in the BRIC Alliance, (Brazil, Russia, India, and China), the Russia-China-India Strategic Triangle and the China-Iran-Russia axis.

Just as Brzezinski spelled out with 'geo-politics'.

We can't forget, however, the U.S.-Kazakhstan Business Association, whose corporate benefactors include ChevronTexaco, ExxonMobil, General Electric, Lockheed Martin and... Halliburton.

posted on Nov, 22 2009 @ 11:43 PM
reply to post by Vitchilo

I think it's because Turkey fully intends to restore the Ottoman empire. With Islam on the ascendancy in Europe and Russia, they want the grand caliph to return to their country.

They are looking at world domination If current trends continue Russia and europe and all of their nukes will be in the possession of Islamic fundamentalists, perhaps receiving orders from Turkey. Hows that scenario grab you?

posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 02:58 PM
reply to post by SevenThunders

Turkey wont stop until they fulfill their all-time wish - panturkism.

This idea take us back to medieval times, and they are still on turkish government's heads.

This concept made the Young Turks (early 20th century) prepare the Armenian Genocide (Which after almost 100 years, is still denied)

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