Wolves Return to Oregon: Large Pack Confirmed

Originally posted by verylowfrequency
As long as wolves don't attack people, I don't see it as a big problem, but them I don't have a ranch with livestock Perhaps the rancher's should be compensated for their losses as part of the program.

If a person gets attacked by a wild animal, then tough. I know that sounds insensitive, but you generally aren't going to end up on the bad side of a cougar, wolf, coyote, raccoon, or bear unless you put yourself in that position. I remember when Joggers in California were getting attacked by cougars because they were jogging through the woods at 3 AM. The response? Killing lots of cougars all over the state. Gratuitous and non-productive. It's like bombing Gambia's forests because of what that chimpanzee did to that lady.

Compensation for killed livestock and pets is a very solid, very workable idea. South Africa, India, and many other nations with large endangered predators have this system and it works pretty well.

Okay - this is a story about one crazy night in August 2008!

I has just bought a single storey house on Bull Mountain, King City nr Tigard.

Well I was just going outsaide to have a cigarette - smoke outside is so much cleaner lol.

Something literally clean jumped the fence and up onto the roof, I was like ummmmmm WTF was that???

Well I had only moved over here from England in the June and was all wife wife wife... I ran into the road to try and get a better look. I saw this animal looking over the far side of the house, then drop down - I ran to the back where I heard a crash - and thinking our two little dogs had been still in the back, I though Oh no!

Anyhow as I got into the back garden I noticed the 7 ft fence had been snapped back... well I thought what the hell was this animal.

Ok this is where it gets interesting - My wife and I were walking back from the stores, we had just turned the corner from Fisher Road heading back home (Baby in Stroller) and walked about 20 yards and saw a guy stood there motionless... we thought Oooo strange dudey or a mentalist!

Then we saw what he was looking at which was crossing the road - A WOLF!

We could not beleive our eyes! It walked literally 20 ft in front of us into the field across the road!

We were in shock, and as the wolf was on a clear run towards our house - we assumed that the animal on our roof was the wolf.

So there is a little story!

We think a lot of development has been going on in their habitat so they are wandering.

Good post BTW

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by LadySkadi

 

I am a member of several animal rights groups, and I do not believe wild animals should be tagged either.

Well the issue is not that Wild animals are tagged, its the purpose in which people hunt them.

I hunt for food and although you may disagree with me killing a deer, that deer will feed my family for a couple months (an elk will last almost a year). From my point of view that makes it worth it. I am an advocate of conservation but (at least around here) the population of wildlife is thriving.

On a side note: A couple years back while I was elk hunting I was hunted by a pack of wolves. It was not very much fun, but as I put myself in the situation I would have only had myself to blame. Luckily they just watched me and never tried anything. I would have hated to move to extreme measures in order to protect myself. I will say it is a truly different feeling to know that you are the one being hunted. There is nothing as scary IMHO.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

Wolves have been demonized, almost into extinction, and I have much sadness for this planet each time one of the worlds animals in slaughtered into extinction, their territory is encroached upon, and they are hunted out of existence.

I am a member of several animal rights groups, and I do not believe wild animals should be tagged either.

Judging by language, I see relatively few posts by people that actually live and play in the wild. I would guess that most people posting to this thread have never even seen a wolf or any other large predators. I would also guess that many posting here are city-dwellers driven only by Hollywood-caliber images and videos (regardless of source).

It's tragic that environmental political policy is being driven largely by people that have never cared for a herd, pitched a tent or lived in the rough. Such people are unqualified for ecology management in any meaningful way.

reply to post by praxis


Well, as someone that has not only seen many a wolf but has also been stalked by them on more than one occasion I will say that I don't think that killing a wolf is necessary whether you are caring for a herd or not. There are measures that can (and are) be taken to prevent preditation amongst your livestock.

There are times every year (at least in my state) where ranchers basically release their livestock onto public land.

I've heard of cattle being killed by:

1. Wolves
2. Bears
3. Coyote
4. Cougars
5. Moose
6. Elk

However the most common cause is disease.

That's right, moose and elk also charge and kill cows.

Perhaps prevention is better than annihilation?

What can you do you ask? Well an electric or barbed wire fence is a good start.

[edit on 24-11-2009 by DaMod]

Originally posted by praxis

Judging by language, I see relatively few posts by people that actually live and play in the wild. I would guess that most people posting to this thread have never even seen a wolf or any other large predators. I would also guess that many posting here are city-dwellers driven only by Hollywood-caliber images and videos (regardless of source).

I'll speak for myself. I live in the city, though I'm quite familiar with the wilderness. I'm not a hunter, rancher or farmer though I have family who are or were. I've heard both sides of these arguments, my entire life. My grandfather was one of those "old timers" who believed in wiping out predators to protect livestock and land. There are plenty of predators out there so protecting livestock (and the population) is always a concern, it doesn't change over the years, only the face of the threat changes. It's cougar, it's bear, it's water shortage, it's territory, it's the environmentalist, it's ELF, whatever... Fact is, people are living in and around the wilderness and co-existing is fact of life.

It's tragic that environmental political policy is being driven largely by people that have never cared for a herd, pitched a tent or lived in the rough. Such people are unqualified for ecology management in any meaningful way.

There is no denying that in OR, environmental sentiment and policy is often set by agenda and agenda is often determined by the population in the west (i.e. Portland/Metro area) so in most cases, it is probably true that the public is unaware of, or does not care about rural concerns. Remember the Spotted Owl? Put a lot of loggers out of business, effectively destroyed an industry. Saved a species. Many years later, new opportunities have surfaced to take the place of an industry that was cut or lost. People adapt. Change happens and it is not "all about us"... What is tragic is entire species being wiped out because people cannot be bothered to think of new ways to co-exist and instead, choose an effective, deadly answer... it's a knee-jerk response to an age old problem. It's almost 2010, not 1945... there are alternatives to slaughter and species extinction.




[edit on 24-11-2009 by LadySkadi]

reply to post by LadySkadi

Thank you for sharing this news with us.

I was absolutely delighted to hear that a new pack had been spotted in Oregon again after a number of years absence. I just hope they won't get secretly hunted again.

I absolutely love wolves, they are my favourite animals, beautiful, strong and protective.

I have always wanted to own a real Wolf *sigh*

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bd3f3422562a.jpg[/atsimg]


[edit on 2-12-2009 by Eevee]

Originally posted by praxis
Judging by language, I see relatively few posts by people that actually live and play in the wild. I would guess that most people posting to this thread have never even seen a wolf or any other large predators. I would also guess that many posting here are city-dwellers driven only by Hollywood-caliber images and videos (regardless of source).

It's tragic that environmental political policy is being driven largely by people that have never cared for a herd, pitched a tent or lived in the rough. Such people are unqualified for ecology management in any meaningful way.

This is why people should never judge because they find out how wrong they are.

I lived in the woods as a child with camping and hunting wild game, or I was always in the woods playing war with my brother, and there's a distinct difference between myself and most people.

My stepfather was a Marine during Vietnam and he taught me conflict de-escalation using animals, as metaphors, as well as teach me respect for nature.

Animals are to be respected, beautiful, and to be respected, from a distance.

I have zero fear of animals, and in fact I have more respect for animals than I do for mankind, because mankind is the most dangerous predators of all mammals because mankind is cruel and will kill just for the sheerest of stupid reasons.

Wolves were at most of the places where people are attacked first, they are defending their territory, and or their offspring, in other words just acting according to instinct, using what God gave them to survive, and mankind has encroached on their territory whether mankind was intelligent or ignorant enough to realize it or not.

While I sure can see the farmers perspective of losing their sheep to the wild wolves, they can as well build bigger, stronger, and more protective enclosures.

This is the difference from when sheep were herded by a single shepherd with a sheepdog and a sling, and the over-commercialization and bastardization of society in having your meat sitting waiting in the local Winn Dixie.

It happens, it is not the wolves fault that mankind has shoved them out of their territory.

Mankind is the most selfish, dangerous, and obnoxiously unthinking species.

Have you not read the Jungle Book, or watched the Disney cartoon movie?

Bare Necessities


Kaa and Shere Khan


The lessons of the story are really inspiring and as well practical in the Kaa and Shere Khan represent the selfishness of mankind, while Mowlgi represents the innocence of a reborn but abandoned joint relationship of mankind and nature that Kipling thought a lot of and represented in almost all of his books, because as I said, mankind is the most selfish of all mammals.

Being an adult leader in the Boy Scouts of America, being an Akela in Scouts, and knowing the wolf Akela represented the leaders of all mankind, this wolf took in the innocent child abandoned by his own mother, representing the loss of our own origins in our past respect with nature.



LadySkadi, I thought you might like some of these links, even though they are sad.

Wildlife Services blasts away Basin Butte wolf pack at Stanley, Idaho

From Link Above :

November 27, 2009 —

Ralph Maughan Is there an explanation for this in the middle of the scheduled wolf hunt?

Right in the middle of the wolf hunt and in the zone where there is the highest quota, Wildlife Services took to the air this week in their gunships and blasted away the long-standing Basin Butte Pack at Stanley, Idaho.

This is one of 26 wolf packs Wildlife Service has labeled as a “chronic depredating” pack, which seems to mean a pack that at one or more times killed some domestic livestock.

It doesn’t mean killed recently, however. All the livestock left the area for the winter in October.

This pack has lived around Stanley, mostly in Stanley Basin for about 5 years now.

Even summer and part of the fall thousands of cattle and sheep are trucked into what many regard as Idaho most scenic valley.

Every year or so the pack kills a calf or two.

Amazingly it stays near the town of Stanley, even within city limits.

If this was a pack that was going to be taken during the wolf hunt, this would seem to be it.

Idaho’s Wolf-Hunting Season Extended Three Months

From Link Above :

Idaho’s wolf hunt will be extended through March 31, or until each hunting zone reaches its quota, the state’s Fish and Game Commission decided at a Thursday meeting in Coeur d’Alene.

Low hunter success rates in some zones, including the Idaho Panhandle, prompted the three-month season extension for the wolf season, which was scheduled to end Dec. 31.

The longer hunt drew immediate criticism from the Northern Idaho Wolf Alliance of Sandpoint, whose members said it would lower wolf pup survival rates.

reply to post by LadySkadi


LadySkadi,

I thought you might like this article I just found today.

Wolf Recovery At Crossroads in the Southwest

Quote from Article Above :

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. – A decade has passed since the federal government began returning endangered Mexican wolves to their historic range in the Southwest. It hasn't worked out — for the wolves, for ranchers, for conservationists or for federal biologists.

And that has resulted in frustration and resentment by many involved in the reintroduction program along the Arizona-New Mexico border, a landscape of sprawling pine and spruce forests, cold-water lakes and clear streams.

"I believe in being a good steward of the land and preserving it for generations to come, but this is ridiculous," said Ed Wehrheim, who heads the county commission in Catron County, in the heart of wolf country.

"I've had ranchers' wives come to me just bawling because everything they and their parents have worked for is going down the drain."

Four ranches have gone out of business since the wolf reintroduction began and another four are expected to do the same before next summer, Wehrheim said.

Do you feel their statistics meet the actual problem, or are they inflated numbers?

Federal Statistics Website

Bumping.

I just read that the Alpha male has gone missing.

reply to post by DaMod


I could care less if you hunt deer, if it is for food, it's your right to do.

If you're killing out of survival, or even to keep hunting skills, it is fine by me.

Meaning, you are doing it for food, for instinctual habits.

If however you are doing it just for the trophy on the wall, that's just ridiculous.

When I speak of trophy hunters I think of those idiots who go on Safari's.

Just to be able to say they killed a lion, elephant, or rhinoceros.

And usually they do it for the pelt and throw away the meat.

Insane as Hell.

If you want to see a wild animal, either learn to use the skills of instinct, and commune with nature, respecting those animals in their wild habitat, or go to a zoo.

They should ban Safari hunting as it does nothing but commercialize killing.

And if someone does not like wolves hunting their sheep don't build in wolf territory.

The wolf has just as much right to the land as humans do.

Humans need to learn to not be so damn selfish.

We do not own this planet, all species do, and while I realize animals cannot represent themselves in a political setting, except in cartoons, their attacks are their "politics" through sheer self-defense and survival instincts.

Something God gave them.

And something humans breed out of themselves with politics, school, and society.

There are a number of reports that the wolves have now moved into the Jarbidge wilderness in Northern Nevada. I have talked to a number of folks that claim to have seen them as far south and west as the Wildhorse reservoir.

From a couple of thousand miles a way this is all cool and neat. However when they eat your dog, your horse or muck out all the deer or elk in your area it is something all together different. What we are talking about is the apex predator of North America. If there is no threat to them from man then man is going to end up a competitor or worse, as in Eurasia, a protein source. Here we deal with mountain lions all the time. No big deal, most are afraid of humans but they will sometimes end up turning a jogger into kitty pu. Dealt with black bears and been in griz country also. Same deal. Why is it out of the question that wolves will not act the same. Most are afraid but some decide to eat the hiker.

When in Canada I saw wolves, they were following the rein deer herds. Oh and they were not eating the mice and voles that were disturbed by the herd. They are cool animals but would you let your kid play with a hungry 160 pound stray dog?

Update from Wolf News - June 18, 2010

The Missing Male

The alpha male of the Imnaha pack was wearing a GPS tracking collar when he was last observed on May 31st. Since then the collar has gone silent and ODFW has been unable to visually spot him.

It’s not all that unusual for collars to malfunction. The alpha female’s collar stopped working and it took ODFW several months before it was able to locate her.

But the news that the male is missing is worrisome, because this is the only known breeding pair of wolves in Oregon.

Oregon’s wolf plan requires that four breeding pairs be established in the eastern part of the Oregon prior to the wolves being eligible to be removed from the Endangered Species List in the state.

I recently watched a documentary on the flora and fauna of Yellow Stone National Park . It mentioned the remarkable regeneration of the parks biodiversity ,as a consequence of the wolves reintroduction .

In the absence of predators, elk graze in areas in which they would normally feel vulnerable and added to that, they have a tendency to overgraze .
Since the reintroduction of the wolves , the park has managed to reverse the decline in aspen and other trees / plants vital to a healthy ecosystem .

I found this article on the subject:
Presence of Wolves Allows Apen Recovery In Yellowstone

After an absence of 70 years, wolves were re-introduced to Yellowstone Park in 1995, and elk populations began a steady decline, cut in half over the past decade. Also, the presence of a natural predator appears to have altered the behavior of the remaining elk, which in their fear of wolves tend to avoid browsing in certain areas where they feel most vulnerable. The two factors together have caused a significant reduction in elk browsing on young aspen shoots, allowing them to survive to heights where some are now above the animal browsing level

I love the stories of female wolves luring farm dogs off into the forest for a 'romantic interlude'. Bam!

They are beautiful, intelligent animales. They need to be managed, not exterminated.

reply to post by LadySkadi


That's distressing news. I hope the collar just malfunctioned or similar. I hope he wasn't shot.

reply to post by Eevee

I have always wanted to own a real Wolf *sigh*

You cannot 'own' a wolf. Their spirit is to strong to be chained. All you would possess would be a ticking time bomb.

Nice picture, tho,

reply to post by LadySkadi


Wonderful news!! S & F