Wolves Return to Oregon: Large Pack Confirmed

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
TY, Wolves are my favourite creature (besides baby hedgehogs).

We cant keep taking over land and have nature take 2nd place.
Its not sustainable, Steve Irwin RIP knew the importance of the eco cycle, I hope he's smiling at this

Except there's nothing natural about wolves having free reign over boxed in cattle.

The fact that a rancher can't do anything about a wolf attacking his livestock is absolutely bogus.

Originally posted by LadySkadi
Genuinely curious as to how wolves are more of a concern, in this case, than cougar or bear populations? At present, those two have been found to be encroaching on more populated areas...

Wolves are comunal Pack animals, their reproductive capacity is probably much higher than solo hunting cougars and bears. Given an adequete food supply they will increase more rapidly in numbers than the other two.

Plus I have to imagine the dietary needs of a Pack are much higher than that of a bear or cougar. They just eat more and more often.




[edit on 21-11-2009 by pavil]

reply to post by praxis


Fact is, attacks on humans by wolves are extremely rare. Virtually doesn't happen, statistically speaking. (Despite what you might see in Hollywood movies.)

Fortunately, human attacks by wolves are extremely rare. How rare?

A reasonable source for information is the world-wide study of wolf attacks on humans done by the Norwegian Institute for Nature Research (NINA) in 2002. The finding of the report was that during the 100 years of the 20th century there were between twenty and thirty attacks in North America (including Alaska and Canada, which have relatively high populations of wolves). Of these, three were fatal, all because of rabies.

No attacks have been recorded in Yellowstone since the reintroduction of wolves more than a decade ago. For comparison, during the 20th century there have been 71 fatal grizzly (brown) bear attacks in North America. Each year in the United States, 16-18 people die from dog attacks.

www.yellowstoneinsider.com...

It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. There are ways for ranchers and wolves to coexist.

www.defenders.org...

[edit on 11/21/09 by kattraxx]

Well I'm a Wisconsin redneck.This is the way it is out here:
I work sometimes on a dairy so I know a thing or two about farming.For every heifer calf born there are usually a couple bull calves,vealers.Not sure why,but heifers are less likely,so they are prized,especially with the fancy,expensive artificial insemination.These champion bloodline Heifers are depended upon to restock the herd when the older cows get shipped.There's a LOT invested in EACH calf.That said,hope y'all understand the three 's's.
Shoot,Shovel,Shut up.Same with the beloved pet dogs seen in the pasture.One shot.And these guys are occupational killers, great shots.We kid each other when a missing dog ad appears in the local paper,"Hey you made the funny pages..."
And don't forget the DNR also brought lymes tick infested turkeys for the enjoyment of the city workers who sleep out in the country.Also mutiflora rose,another brilliant DNR introduction we try and try to eradicate...
So yeah,wolves are beautiful intelligent creatures,elegant and wise,no doubt.I sure am glad the choice is not up to me,as I am not the actual livestock owner and I hate killing.

reply to post by LadySkadi


It's a really tough question. I can see why the ranchers feel the way they do. I don't have stock but have talked to people who have lost more than a few to cougars & coyotes and would probably like to see them wiped out too. Having a llama in the field seems to do wonders. I don't know if it would help with wolves though?

I'm the kind of guy who would like to see it work somehow. Before there were penned animals around here, there were old timers who handled it a different way. What can I say, I have a bit of a yearning for those days.

More politics to consider... the laws and agendas of neighboring states and how they affect populations in Oregon.

Wolves Face New Threats as Federal Protections Stripped
Plans to exterminate hundreds of wolves set to move forward, Oregon wolves at risk...

For the second time in just over a year, gray wolves have been removed from the Endangered Species Act list of protected animals. Today’s notice in the Federal Register finalizes a decision made in April by Interior Secretary Ken Salazar and opens the door for widespread hunting and killing of wolves throughout the Northern Rockies region. During a 30-day period last March when the species lost federal protections, over 100 wolves were killed. Twelve conservation organizations, represented by Earthjustice, have filed notice of intent to defend wolves in court.

“Rather than pursuing real solutions for living with wolves, Secretary Salazar has signed off on a policy that would bring the species right back to the edge of extinction,” said Sean Stevens, a spokesperson for Oregon Wild, one of the groups challenging the delisting in court. “Here in Oregon we have a state management plan for wolves, but if rampant killing is allowed in Idaho and across the region we might not have any wolves to manage in few years.”

Both Idaho and Montana have announced wolf hunting seasons with quotas yet to be set. Additionally, Idaho wildlife officials have announced a plan to exterminate over two dozen entire wolf packs. In total, state management plans could allow 1,000 wolves to be killed out of a total wolf population of approximately 1,600.

Oregon Wild - May 09

ETA: bolding mine




[edit on 21-11-2009 by LadySkadi]

[edit on 21-11-2009 by felonius]

reply to post by praxis


We have coy-dogs (coyote/feral dog hybrid) here in my part of Texas. They are easily taken care of. If your in the bush (or near it), be armed. Dont let the kids outside alone without LARGE Multiple dog protection.

I'm no tree hugger but I am a hunter and understand the cycle...and respect it.

Foolish? No. You have to keep balance or you'll have rabbits and deer all over the place or getting diseased. If you live rural, act rural. We are animals too. We keep our spot by earning it.

The one thing here nobody has thought to bring up is the problem with reintroducing the wrong species of wolf, as the Idaho F&G has done. Idaho and Oregon were originally populated with Timber Wolves. I've spent a lot of time around Timbers, and they are fairly small, social animals that will eat anything they kill. The wolves that were reintroduced are Gray Wolves, which are much larger, reproduce faster, more aggressive, and will only eat the soft organs of a kill and leave the rest. They are decimating the elk population of Idaho and will do the same for Eastern Oregon over the next few years.

I'm glad everyone here likes wolves, so do I. But when the government ties the hands of people so they are unable to protect their livelihood and then completely botches the reintro program, there's a serious flaw in the plan.

Just so you know, Idaho has allowed hunting of wolves to help control the population. It's been 13 years since they were released, and it's been nothing but trouble the last few years as a result.

Wolves kill 19 lambs in Baker City

I grew up in Baker and all I can say is it gets kinda frustrating listening to people drool over these wolves. I would also point out that the ODFW has ignored wolf sightings in the region for years.

Besides livestock, the elk and deer have been having a rough go of it as of late because of the harsh winters.

Hmmm... lets throw a THIRD apex predator into the mix.




[edit on 21-11-2009 by ManWithGrace89]

I can't WAIT to go hunting up there!!!

A 60 cal and RPG

reply to post by Janky Red

Hunting for what?
Thing is, you cannot hunt for wolves in OR (legally) as you can in MT and ID. As for deer and elk, as has been mentioned, the numbers are very low (I have family members who hunt in Hells Canyon area and they haven't had much luck in the last few years...)




[edit on 21-11-2009 by LadySkadi]

Originally posted by Taliesin
The one thing here nobody has thought to bring up is the problem with reintroducing the wrong species of wolf, as the Idaho F&G has done.

SNIP

I didn't actually know that ID reintroduced a non-native species of wolf for the area. Since OR didn't officially adopt a reintroduction plan, the wolves we have now have come into the state from ID (according to Fish/Wildlife)...

Interesting reading on the Idaho wolf reintroduction: here



[edit on 22-11-2009 by LadySkadi]

More food for thought...

Washington gets its second wolf pair and an interesting tale from Yellowstone.

After reintroduction, elk populations dropped from around 18,000 to around 6,500. This year, the numbers are slightly over 7,000. Various explanations were given, from drought to over-hunting, but wolf predation on calves was seen as the most likely cause. However, the new study says scat evidence and radio-collar tracking shows relatively few elk calves have been killed by wolves.

The real culprit?

In the absence of wolves, elk migrated down to large meadows where they could forage on grass throughout the winter. Reintroducing wolves forced the elk into the mountains, where scarce food (elk that could graze without the presence of wolves ate 27 percent more food) isn’t enough to keep pregnant elk healthy—and fewer calves were born as a result.

The moral of the story? Since wolves were eradicated from many of the western states nearly a century ago, local ecosystems have seen some dramatic changes—from inflated elk populations to changing riparian zones. As Northwesterners move forward bringing wildlife populations closer to historic levels, we’ll see some exciting—and possibly unexpected—transformations in Cascadia’s natural heritage.

WA Cries Wolf, Again

reply to post by LadySkadi


LadySkadi, I absolutely love wolves, one of my favorite creatures of nature.

My soul mourns their loss each time one dies, yet I appreciate the farmers rights as well.

Wolves Howl


Wolves have been demonized, almost into extinction, and I have much sadness for this planet each time one of the worlds animals in slaughtered into extinction, their territory is encroached upon, and they are hunted out of existence.

I am a member of several animal rights groups, and I do not believe wild animals should be tagged either.

I am the Alpha Wolf, I am the Omega Wolf


Save The Wolves

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a8b65b2b6c43.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 21-11-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by Cedik


Dumbest thing I've heard.

two lines

[edit on 11/21/2009 by eldard]

Back to the idea of wolves and ranchers co-existing; has anyone heard of a researcher by the name of Shaun Ellis?

...After he left the Marines he met a Native American biologist at a wolf seminar, and from that meeting he was able to spend seven years living with the Nez Perce Native Americans on their reservation in northern Idaho, United States as a volunteer in a project studying wolves at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. They taught him how to observe wolves, and he was able to get in to a pack of wolves and live among them. He recorded wild wolf howls and gradually learned to identify individual pack members and began to believe that wolves are highly intelligent and instinctive animals that exude trust and balance within the pack's social structure...

Ellis was part of a National Geographic documentary A Man Among Wolves.

Ellis believed that if the local wolves heard howls coming from the farm they would believe another pack had already claimed it as their territory, and keep clear to avoid a conflict. In order for this to work Ellis had to determine the size of the pack and play back recordings of a similar-sized pack. Initial results were encouraging and in the first few weeks after the farmer began playing the recordings the farm suffered no further attacks.

The research is preliminary, but if proved to be a deterrent, it could be a viable option for ranchers to safeguard the livestock. I haven't read of anyone else looking into this, in the US.

Originally posted by kattraxx

Fact is, attacks on humans by wolves are extremely rare. Virtually doesn't happen, statistically speaking. (Despite what you might see in Hollywood movies.)

You reckon those *statistical anomalies* would have felt something like this?

urbanlegends.about.com...

Originally posted by kattraxx
It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. There are ways for ranchers and wolves to coexist.

I disagree.

Even one single person dying for this foolish environmental extremism is one too many.








[edit on 22-11-2009 by praxis]

Originally posted by ManWithGrace89

Hmmm... lets throw a THIRD apex predator into the mix.

Umm we need to get over its our choice who we "throw in"
It was a Apex predator before the introduced lambs and farmers.

The eco systems worked for a reason for millenia, you seem to think its our choice what gets to stay or not?

All we are doing is screwing the whole system up with our over consumptions and that will damage us in the end more than anything else.


My mum hates wolves as she was a peasant/shepheardess as a young girl, but they have now returned to that area and she is glad as she says 'we all got placed to walk on that land'.

The wolf was there before you.

Originally posted by zazzafrazz

Originally posted by ManWithGrace89

Hmmm... lets throw a THIRD apex predator into the mix.

Umm we need to get over its our choice who we "throw in"
It was a Apex predator before the introduced lambs and farmers.

The eco systems worked for a reason for millenia, you seem to think its our choice what gets to stay or not?

All we are doing is screwing the whole system up with our over consumptions and that will damage us in the end more than anything else.


My mum hates wolves as she was a peasant/shepheardess as a young girl, but they have now returned to that area and she is glad as she says 'we all got placed to walk on that land'.

The wolf was there before you.

Amen zazza.

Man has become the most selfish of all mammals, encroaching on the wild animals habitats, and then they panic and wonder why these animals attack, or they put them in zoos as a showcase trophy item.

Man is the largest predator on the planet, and the ecosystem is breaking down faster than the wild animals can keep up, and soon we will not have any of them left, only zoo bred half-breeds who cannot survive in the wild.

It breaks my heart when I see a wild animal dead, because where else did the dog come from but from wolves, wild canines, domesticated, and now some trick repeating animal that barely knows its ancestry.

I would prefer to live on an island with the wild animals with my instincts, at least I know they will try to eat me, and I will return the favor only what I need for survival, whereas man will stab you in the back, cut your throat, and kick you when you're down.