Senate Health Bill Price Tag, Rosy Deficit Estimate Assailed as 'Fantasy'

My computer is being a peice of crap and won't let me post the link or quote anything SO I will copy and paste the link

"Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid claims that his health care bill costs about $848 billion in the first 10 years, well under President Obama's $900 billion target."

The link

www.foxnews.com...

Amazing that the MSM doesn't tell the whole story about the price tag. Bold emphasis mine.

CBO and JCT estimate that the direct spending and revenue effects of enacting the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act would yield a net reduction in federal deficits of $130 billion over the 2010-2019 period. That estimate is subject to substantial uncertainty.

cboblog.cbo.gov...

Fantasy indeed.

reply to post by capgirl


Nice post... I flagged ya.

Congress is crazy if they think we are going to buy that 890 billion number.. basically we are paying 10 years for 5 years of healthcare..

This thing is going to be a financial disaster for this country. Those idiots!

Hey, no problem. I have been reading a lot of science fiction lately. It will be no problem from switching from sci fi to political fiction.

I would like to know where the frack these asshats think all of the money is going to come from?

I mean really, the US is going down the tubes, and they think by raising taxes or asking money from the Chinese(they have already said back the # off) anything is going to be solved?

Yes, 10-20 years ago, the US economy could of sustained the idiocy they are proposing. But, just imagine, a depression they have instituted, and now tax and loan burdens that cannot be dismissed?

We are in a world of hurt! But they do not care, the rich and powerful have never cared in the history of the world what happens to the rest of us.

Let them eat cake! "I admire China's set-up"-OBAMA

reply to post by endisnighe


Yah I beg any Liberal to come in here an explain how they are going to pay for this without massive tax hikes or masive additions to the deficit.

If you can prove how it gets paid for beyond doubt, I will call every congress person and show my support. But don't give me this medicare fraud reduction crap, because they have had medicare forever aand if they haven't fixed medicare fraud in 40 years they arent't going to all the sudden going to become Columbo.

I guess they are pulling the money out of their asses. Nono they are getting it from the free money machine that prints the money! I wish I had one of those =(

reply to post by capgirl


"Senate Health Bill Price Tag, Rosy Deficit Estimate Assailed as 'Fantasy'" - By Republicans, reports FOX news.

With the time I just wasted looking at that, I could have been reading funny webcomics about lolcats playing Zelda or something.

reply to post by HotSauce


Not tax hikes.

Just repeal the corporate welfare that the Republicans have been handing out for the last thirty years, end the two Republican crusades, and bam, you've got the dough.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Do you realize that if you raise taxes on any business that it will eventually get passed on to the consumer or the business will just ship its jobs overseas or close down all together?

Any tax on busness becomes a tax on the consumer. Stuff flows down hill.

And ... those two "Republican Crusades" have kept your ass safe the last 8 years, so maybe you should thank Bush and Cheney and the troops.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by HotSauce]

reply to post by HotSauce


Trickle down economics? Didn't we try that once?

Are you arguing against corporate giveaways or shipping jobs overseas? perhaps they're connected?

reply to post by Seiko


They are connencted. We live in a global marketplace with great logistics. If you add any tax to a business you make them less competitive on a global scale. So in order to compete they must cut expenses in order to make their products price competitive or eventually they will go out of business. So eventually they will eventually move jobs over seas to cut expenses. Eventually they will move more and more jobs until there are none left.

If you want more jobs in this country you cut taxes, cut regulation in certain areas so American business can compete on a global scale.

But if you know a better way to make us competitive I would love to hear it as I am sure I am not always right.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by HotSauce]

reply to post by HotSauce


Is there any problem that can't be solved by cutting taxes?

I'm still having flashbacks of ross perot making those sucking sounds and talking about all our jobs going out of the country. That's nafta he kept saying....whoosh...there they go...

reply to post by HotSauce

So eventually they will eventually move jobs over seas to cut expenses. Eventually they will move more and more jobs until there are none left.

Let them go. Who needs them anyway?

As long as we got high paying jobs like WalMart and McDonalds, we will be all right.



You want fries with that.

reply to post by Seiko


Sure you can't make the earth spin backwards by cutting taxes.

Ross Perot ws dead on. Go back and find some of his old speeches. He predicted all of this 20 years ago. I am for NAFTA and he wasn't, and I understand why he wasn't, but I just find it to be inevitable that eventually you would have to compete globally.

My question to you is what problems have ever been solved by raising taxes? If you give them more money they just piss it away and come back and take more.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by HotSauce]

reply to post by jam321


LMAO.. good one. But trading money in house does us no good when we bought everything in the WalMart from China and China barely bought anything from us. You cannot have endless years of more money leaving the country than comes in, eventually you will go broke.

reply to post by HotSauce


Then the problem is in money management. Neither raising nor lowering will solve that problem. So lets find out why our money is being thrown away.

The new health bill is a hidden tax on the middle class, I'm against it. I am however having a hard time feeling sorry for the corporations and rich here.

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

Do you realize that if you raise taxes on any business that it will eventually get passed on to the consumer or the business will just ship its jobs overseas or close down all together?

Then let them. If a company is going to blackmail the American people - "give us your money or we'll try to dick you over" then we don't need them. They can piss off to Somalia and enjoy a nice little government-free tax haven, if they really want.

Any tax on busness becomes a tax on the consumer. Stuff flows down hill.

I don't think you really understand the history of business in this country. Don't worry, it's forgivable, it's nothing a little education won't fix up. First off, the historical top tax rate for businesses tended to hover between 70% and 88% (FDR spiked it up to 94%, but he had some Nazi ass to kick). We were doing just fine with this high tax rate. Reagan then dropped it down to 28%, and anyone who actually lived in the 80's can tell you, it was a real crapper of an economy. Republicans then wailed their little heads off when Clinton bumped it all the way, way, way up to a whopping 39%.

Strangely, our economy was doing pretty good right up til the 80's. The OPEC embargo bit our butts pretty hard, but that was a burp, not a downturn. All of a sudden, the Reagan Administration couldn't afford to do anything other than sell narcotics to fund terrorism. The result was that the whole country suffered, entire sectors of the infrastructure were sold off to private interest, and, as anyone who actually lived i nthe 80's can tell you, the whole situation pretty much sucked.

Now that's the history lesson. Basically consumers end up paying more when tax rates are low. These corporations are sucking up massive resources, they're sucking up political and legal time, and they are getting subsidies - your tax dollars - in order to do so. At the same time, the aneimic government is having to sell parts of itself - you know, stuff funded with your tax dollars - to these same corporations, at a loss, just to keep itself slightly functional. And at the end of the day, they have tax rates so low that many of them actually end up not paying taxes at all. In other words, they are getting a free ride off of your wallet, and you're defending their right to do so.

There are numerous methods to avoid "trickle down" taxation, and most of them are already in place - a corporate profits tax strongly discourages this practice, as the more money they bilk you, the consumer for, the more money they're forking out as taxes. Another option is the VAT, which does add some price to the consumer's product, but usually less than a sales tax would.

Another option is public burning of CEO's who pull this crap. it's not for everyone, of course, but we should at least give it a try with Lee Raymond.

And ... those two "Republican Crusades" have kept your ass safe the last 8 years, so maybe you should thank Bush and Cheney and the troops.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by HotSauce]

Yeah sure. Just so you know, I've been keeping you safe from tiger attacks for the last decade. Don't believe me? well, have you been attacked by a tiger? There you go! You're welcome, feel free to donate money.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by TheWalkingFox]

[edit on 20-11-2009 by TheWalkingFox]

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

And ... those two "Republican Crusades" have kept your ass safe the last 8 years, so maybe you should thank Bush and Cheney and the troops.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by HotSauce]

thats right and cost more than the fantasy we are debating here

Thanks troops

and Screw the chickens who sent em!

reply to post by Seiko


Part of the problem is money management.

Lowering taxes wont fix mismanagement but it gies them less to mismanage. Maybe.

Taxes are a tricky beast because raising taxes doesn't always have the intended consequence of more revenue. If businesses cut jobs because demand goes down because people are over taxed then you end up with less revenue. Which is kind of similar to what we see happening now. Raise taxes in NY people move their families and businesses out of NY. Less revenue.

Nobody is saying feel sory for the rich. Most busness owner are not that rich. But even those that are.. we need them to have a desire to invest or we are screwed.

The new health bill is a hidden tax on the middle class,

Yes this is right.. It is a tax hike on the rich and the middle class

Lets step back.. you still have to buy insurance and the cost will most likely increase. On top of that you and your employer will be taxed. It is like taken it from both ends and then saying than you sir may I have another.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by HotSauce]

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

Then let them. If a company is going to blackmail the American people - "give us your money or we'll try to dick you over" then we don't need them. They can piss off to Somalia and enjoy a nice little government-free tax haven, if they really want.

You know I think if Obama pushes through all these new taxes then many more will move out of the country. Then you will really be screwed. The 3% rich and corp pay over 50% of the taxes in this country. So let them leave and then see how things work out for you.