this is odd

on many websites about masons they explain them selves as good people which they are but they say they dont use the all seeing ey well my great grandfather was a past grand master at the local lodge and mayor of va.beach well at my grand mothers i was looking at his mason stuff and he had a little apron lookin thing and pendant that both had an eye on it. btw i do not no his degree

There's a difference between the so-called "All-seeing eye" symbol (an eye surrounded by rays) and the symbol of the eye in a triangle, denoting the Deity and His all-seeing nature.

The All-seeing eye is not a Masonic symbol per se but as it is a symbol of God's omniscience it pertains to Masonry. The eye in a triangle is not a Masonic symbol at all.

The eye in a triangle is not a Masonic symbol at all.

That would be illuminanti, if my memory serves me correctly.

Which would make sense because the illuminanti are rumored to have had heavy influence in the Masons...

[Edited on 5/20/04 by NothingMakesSense]

The eye is a very famous Illuminati symbolism
They, if they still exist, are supposedly in the upper ranks of the Masons... but I do not believe this anymore.
The Illuminati are scientific, anti-religion.... The Masons are all pro-'Arichtech of the Universe', thus we have a mutually exclusive situation

AK was right, the various permutations of the "Eye" may not be a Masonic symbol, but is recognized as a symbol of Deity (going back to Egypt). The problem is that certain well meaning paranoid schizophrenics see the eye and equate this to being �watched". This of course is ridiculous because we all know it's just not that easy to detect "Big Brother's" worldwide monitoring system. Your grandfather was probably a great and respected man, please take care of that apron.

The Illuminati are scientific, anti-religion.... The Masons are all pro-'Arichtech of the Universe', thus we have a mutually exclusive situation

Well not necessarily. My theory here is that the illuminanti, and again, if they exist, use the Masons as a vehicle to kepp their organization in the background but alive. Yes, their philosiphies are exclusive, but keep in mind the illuminanti are fairly well known for using other organizations as vehicles for thier own means and blending in very well. So I don't think that point matters much until the illuminanti come to the forefront again.

The organization of the illuminanti brings up an interesting point in and of itself: when do you declare a shadow organization such as them dead? You'd only need 1 or 2 people per generation to keep the basic beliefs and traditions alive.

Actually, the All Seeing Eye was never used by the Illuminati as a symbol, but it has been used in Masonry for several centuries in the Third Degree. The Eye in the Triangle, which appears on the Great Seal of the US, was designed by a non-Mason, although he was probably influenced by Masonic symbolism that was practically everywhere in colonial America.
As for being �declared dead�, Adam Weishaupt officially disbanded the Illuminati in 1782. This group did not influence Masonry, although Masonry certainly influenced them. The Illuminati consisted of technically ten degrees, with its 4th through 7th degrees being the degrees of Blue Lodge Masonry, plus a degree they called �Scots Master�, similar to the degree of Heredom in the Royal Order of Scotland.
Also, the Illuminati were not anti-religious. They just believed in the separation of church and state, which led to religious fanatics labeling them as anti-religious. As one writer pointed, when the Illuminati called for separation of church and state, the religious establishment saw destruction of religion. When the Illuminati called for equal rights for women, the religious establishment interpreted it as destruction of the family. When the Illuminati called for free public elections, the Church interpreted it as destruction of the so-called �divine right of kings�, leading to anarchy.
While Masonry basically held the same philosophical principles as the Illuminati, the only actual connection between these two societies was that some people were members of both, including Weishaupt, Von Knigge, Goethe, Mozart, and St. Germaine.
Contrary to the tales of the conspiracy theorists, the Illuminati was not composed of the wealthy elite. They were a revolutionary society founded by the oppressed, who sought to overthrow the Bavarian dictatorship, and establish a democracy in its place, so that they and their families could lead a better life.

Fiat Lvx.




[Edited on 20-5-2004 by Masonic Light]

Are there any factual books about the illumanti? If so, what would make some good reading?
Thanks!!

Originally posted by Are u for real???
Are there any factual books about the illumanti? If so, what would make some good reading?
Thanks!!

Look for Robinson's Proofs of a Conspiracy. Not only is it informative regarding the illuminati, but it gives a nice historical background on freemasonry as well. It is long since out of print, you should be able to find the text in its entirety on the web.

Go here to check out proofs of a conpiracy:
www.the7thfire.com...

Another good book regarding the illuminati is World Revolution: The Plot Against Civilization by Nesta H. Webster.

I recomend ordering both online as finding them in book stores is like looking for a needle in a hay stack.

Khonsu, I am surprised at you!

Both "Proofs of a Conspiracy" and Nesta Webster's work are baseless libel against both the Masonic Order and the Bavarian Illuminati (as Masonic Light has indicated, the B.I. were perfectly decent people). Additionally, I believe you will find Ms. Webster to be a rabid anti-semite.

I agree that a lot of information in both books is rubbish, but they are all in all much better sources of information than such books as "the illuminati 666" and the like. So in that respect I endorse them. IMO all information regarding the illuminati should be taken with a grain of salt anyway. If you know of any good sources of information please share as i've been hard pressed to find accurate plethoras of information regarding this society.

Why, of course, my good man... nothing could give me greater pleasure.

Those interested in the Bavarian Illuminati might be well-served going here.

Some refuting of Nesta Webster's work can also be found here.

Or perhaps a little on Ms. Webster's career?

Here's a little on John Robison.

The two websites from which you can find these links are freemasonry.bcy.ca and www.masonicinfo.com. Both are very good if you want to know the truth about these issues.

Hey guys new here to the site, but not to conspiracies and events of that nature...if you want to know more about the illuminati do research on "Moriah Conquering Wind" that is the latest name these International Bankers and "world leaders" have given themselves.

Originally posted by Are u for real???
Are there any factual books about the illumanti? If so, what would make some good reading?
Thanks!!

If you�re interested in the Illuminati, Robinson�s book is must-read. Not because it is factual, but because it showcases the mindset of the Illuminati�s opposition. Robinson was not himself a Jesuit, but was duped by their anti-Illuminati propaganda anyway. A good page with factual information on the Illuminati can be viewed here:
freemasonry.bcy.ca...

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
A good page with factual information on the Illuminati can be viewed here:
freemasonry.bcy.ca...

Ah-ha!

Beat you to the punch for once, ML See my above post.

AK, you have to admit, ML stomps us all when it comes producing clear concise posts on the most arcane of topics. *Takes a moment to polish ML's crown* Yes, you certainly drew faster on this particular showdown, but if the chips were down, and you had only one post at a thread, ask yourself, "who do I want to take it?". Geez, this is starting to sound like one of those mindless weaponry posts.

True, true...

I'd have to let ML take that shot... but me, I prefer the "shotgun" approach... keep posting, and hope that something sinks in.

That, of course, combined with my constant rambling, tangential topics, and parenthetical talk... like the time I was catching the ferry to Morinville (which is what they called Shelbyville at the time). I had tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, you couldn't get white onions, because the Kaiser had stolen them all, so you had to get yellow ones. Now, I was trying to catch the ferry to Shelbyville, which cost a nickel. Now, in those days, nickels had pictures of bees on them. "Give my five bees for a quarter," you'd say. Anyway, the important thing is that I had an onion tied to my belt (which was the style at the time)...

Thanks folks for the excellent websites to check out! Let me start wiht these sites and then I will come back and ask for more reading material.

Seems like you folks are very well informed about this subject matter. If I have questions in the future, I will look to ask you folks.

Thanks again!!!

Originally posted by AlexKennedy
... like the time I was catching the ferry to Morinville (which is what they called Shelbyville at the time). I had tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, you couldn't get white onions, because the Kaiser had stolen them all, so you had to get yellow ones. Now, I was trying to catch the ferry to Shelbyville, which cost a nickel. Now, in those days, nickels had pictures of bees on them. "Give my five bees for a quarter," you'd say. Anyway, the important thing is that I had an onion tied to my belt (which was the style at the time)...

AK, with a gift like that story, you should consider politics

MM~~aaah, a weopns thread or a dirty harry movie.
You guys amaze me, truly.