Former evangelist: Religious right is 'trawling for assassins'

reply to post by Raist


But aren't the nutjobs the concern here? Sane people don't go off to murder politicians, it's the crazy that think they have a right. And it's the crazy that are going to take this in the context that it's written and see it as a trumpet call.

So to everyone claiming this is a threat should this be considered a threat as well?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It is about the burning effigy of Obama. Seems like a threat to me or at least it could be taken as that.

See the point is if you try you can turn anything you want into something it is not intended as.

Raist

Double post.

[edit on 11/20/09 by Raist]

reply to post by whatukno


Again the nut jobs are going to read whatever they like out of anything they see.

That is how they are that is what makes them nut jobs.

Most people would not have thought anything about the verse and the stickers had the story not been done turning it into that.

Check out the post directly below yours again. The same thing can be said about that.


Also what about things that are considered art by the secular world but often considered offensive by Christians such as “piss Christ”? See how some see things differently than others. One side sees it as art another might see it as an attack on their beliefs.

Nut jobs will always be nut jobs they will do crazy things because that is who they are not because of something they see. They may use that as an excuse like many have killed in the name of God when he has not asked them to do so (the crusades). People are just crazy in many ways and will make things to fit their own views.

This is why you see it one way and I see it another. We are different in our thoughts and beliefs. We see things on differing levels (at least on this topic for sure) and chances are always will.

Raist

reply to post by Raist


See, this particular verse however is about killing an unjust leader. That is the point. Nutjobs will take that as a green light to try and do something crazy.

reply to post by whatukno


No this verse is about his days being short in office (as used in the bumper stickers). If you take it as killing someone than you are taking it as that. That is not what is intended though.

Like I said any nut job or secular person will read into it what they chose.

Again nut jobs will take anything as a green light to do as they chose. But if you insist on seeing this as a green light you go ahead and believe it. We will agree to disagree here because I will not see it as that.

It might be you are seeing it as a green light because you are of a secular world. I see it for the intention giving because I understand the intention and the meaning. I am not saying that makes me better I am just saying I understand it.

Again though nut jobs will see a green light where they chose. It is funny so many on here condemn the taking of freedom of speech but so many are against this claiming it might lead to someone trying something. There are many ifs in life if we must work laws around ifs we all will be prisoners of our own making.

Take my advice for what you will but I suggest lightening up or you will stress out on things that are less important than you believe. My friend you seem bright enough to get what I am explaining it only takes opening up the understanding that nuts will find what they want from anything in the world; it could be anything like the art thread I gave a link to.

Sorry it took so long to get back to you but I was working today and just got home.

Raist


[edit on 11/21/09 by Raist]

Double post.

[edit on 11/21/09 by Raist]

reply to post by Raist


I also think it all boils down to motive and intent and Raist how do you know what the intent was? To me the intent is clear.

I also can see how the religious among us would want to spin the bible quote to keep it from having an evil intent.

I realize how uncomfortable it must feel to think that some Christian brethren would wish evil on a sitting president. But if they wanted him out of office it would have been very simple to have said "vote him out of office"

But they didn't say that, did they? IMO they want Obama dead but they didn't have enough guts to put it in plain language, so they used dumbass
rhetoric that is so transparent any retard can see thru it.

God, please keep us safe from your followers.







[edit on 21-11-2009 by whaaa]

reply to post by whaaa


I am not saying some do not want him dead, I would guess many do.

I would also put money on the fact that many of those call themselves Christians (if I were a betting man). But calling oneself by a name does not make it true.

See I could call myself a Jew or even Islamist, but that would be a lie. Even if I call myself by a name (Christian) does not mean that I will always follow the rules set forth for me to be or walk the path of Christianity. I see many Christians (including myself) that sin often, as sin is in our human nature.

Perhaps the nut job really is a Christian but are weakened enough in their walk due to mental instability that they do want him dead and would try to make it so. Should we ban any forms of speech written or spoken that might lead someone to do something because they read into it intent that is not there? We might as well shut down most all forms of media and completely turn it all over to the government in that case.

I am not saying some might not take this as a sign, but those who actually put this out I doubt very seriously intended it to be taken that way. I guarantee that no one in my church is praying for Obama to be killed or even hurt. I do know that all have prayed that he be enlightened in his leadership and follow God’s will. Many have prayed that he change his views or thoughts and ideas, not that God change them but that Obama himself would. In fact I don’t know anyone that wants him killed that I consider a Christian. I do know some who say they believe in God (the Christian one) but follow none of the Christian rules set before them and live a completely secular life, that do want bad things to happen to Obama.

My point is still that anyone can read what they chose from anything out there. Regardless of what someone “might or might not” read in something we cannot risk losing our right to freedom of speech. I am a Christian first but that does not mean that I do not believe in letting people speak their mind, God never took away the choice to sin he left it in our hands. We are either going to do bad or we are going to do good. We are free to chose which ever path we want, the only problem comes when our life ends.


Raist

reply to post by whaaa


I would be more intent on praying that God keep us safe from TPTB if I were you lol.

They will help the nut cases decide quicker when it is time to take out certain people. Obama is one of the safest people on the planet ATM TPTB will allow his death when they are ready.

BTW I must go for the night I am tired and will return around the same time tomorrow.

See you then.

Raist

[edit on 11/21/09 by Raist]

Originally posted by Raist I guarantee that no one in my church is praying for Obama to be killed or even hurt.

Whoa, You have the ability to know what is going on in other peoples hearts and souls?

Then you must be some sort of God yourself or at least have God like psychic powers. I had no idea that you were so special.



Well, I am a betting man and I would lay odds that your guarantee is worthless as teats on a bullfrog.

Sorry, when folks make such outlandish claims it's very hard give any credibility to anything they say after that.











[edit on 21-11-2009 by whaaa]

reply to post by whaaa


Well considering my church is very, very small and I know the members there better than I know my mother, father, or siblings I stand by this claim. I have prayed with them many times and they we have spent a great deal of time together.

They are more of a family to me than my own family. The only family member that had any kind of real closeness to me was my grandmother who was a big part of my church. In fact just this month when she died everyone in the church took turns being there for her. Most of them even spent time caring for her in her last few days. She never had a moment where there was not a member of the church by her side. In fact most of the time there were multiple members there with her.

I know the members of my church so well I stick by my statement. We have all shared very intimate details with each other as we are like a family. Again we a small very close nit church, I would not make such a statement if I were in a larger church. I can get help from any of them any moment I need it and they can expect the same from me.

Many of the members have known me since I was very young. One was a teacher of mine; another delivered the mail not to my grandmother’s mail box but brought it inside her home for her. As you can guess this church is also in a small town. I grew up with other members and went to school with them. When I say we are a family I mean it, we are a family. More so than many blood related families.
I still stick by the statement that not one of them has prayed for his death or for him to be hurt. I guarantee though they have prayed that he change his views on some things like I already mentioned though. I also know that we all even prayed for his health, after all you cannot change if you are dead.

Raist

I feel a set up here. Remember that Nero burned Rome and blamed the Christians. The Christians were persecuted for years after this for being traitors to Rome.

See, I could see your point if they put in the bumper sticker
"I hope he has one term". Then put Psalms 109:8

But to put it as it is, leads one to have to look it up. Once they do they aren't going to stop reading once they get the first sentence they will keep going getting the real message.

And while the sane won't see this as permission to do something rash. The insane will.

reply to post by whatukno


I am not sure how many times I must say it though. The insane will find anything that fits their view as a go on doing something the rest of us understand as wrong.

To point to just this is being a bit close-minded to me. The insane see things in different ways they hear songs telling them to do things; they see movies that tell them they are like the lead character. Look at how many even act on this board. There are those, we have all seen them, that freak out thinking that tomorrow the government is going to bust down their door step on their necks and haul them off to a camp. You even have the people that believe that the Dems and Obama are going to take their guns before 2012 gets here.

These people are not normal (I know who is normal and who is to judge that) they have some serious issues. But the truth is it does not matter what the trigger is only that they are easily triggered.

What do you think of the Fort Hood ordeal? Was it some nut case that was solo and just flipped out? Or was it more of a planned out sleeper cell sort of terrorism? If it is the nut case thing what exactly triggered his break?

What about L.H.O. (if he was the only shooter) what triggered him to kill J.F.K.? Was it a nut case or well planned out terrorism? There had to be a trigger of some sort. Was it political or religious? What caused it to happen the day it did?

My point is mainly to say there are too man if’s in life. You cannot point to this as a single thing. The issue is that even if this were not here the nut case that wants Obama dead will find a trigger in their own delusional mind. They find it because they seek it. Not to mention most who do things for a religious reason (someone who would kill him because of reading Psalms 109:8) would have already found it because they are a nut case that is following a religious belief. These are the people that “hear” God’s voice telling them to bring harm to another. These nut cases will be nuts regardless of the media given to them.

Raist

Hey, whaaa, I just want to add my 2c. I see three possibilities here
1. This is at the extreme far, worst end of the tastelessness continuum.
2. This call for a shortened term is to a call for assassination as soft porn is to hard,
3. These people are SOS..stuck on stupid.

Maybe it's a combination of 2 or 3 of them.

Now, I'll be the first to admit, I'm no scholar of biblical times, but maybe back then people elected their leaders and the verse just is a call to wait patiently for the next election.... nah.

William F. Buckley acted as an intellectual lighthouse to steer his party away from the treacherous shoals of the John Birch Society. Sadly, with the right's decades long political disdain for intellectualism, there no longer seems to be any intellectual heavy weight to step in (or willing to step in!).

With all the deaths and assassinations that have taken place I guess Christians are responsible for them as well, at least in the secular mind. Far be it that nut cases kill because they want to kill and then find justification regardless of the source.

Forget that most every president has been called the anti-Christ for quite some time, including Obama. Look at the number of threads about Obama being the anti-Christ. Look at the hate so many had for Bush. If a nut job is looking for a go on killing Obama they need not look far as the neo-Nazis and the KKK are not hard to find. Their speech is not only a go for it but their speech is meant as that as well.

Since though we are on the idea that it is the fault of the media a person takes in for committing an act let’s talk about music, movies, books, or even daily TV. If it will be the fault of these bumper stickers and there is a cry about them let us not ban all things that could cause someone (a nut case) to kill anyone. This is what I find funny the number of people who defend those types of things yet these bumper stickers which only might be interpreted as that are suddenly bad.

As for those who might go by the moniker of Christian and would commit such a heinous act I have this. “Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.” So we see here even God knows that not everyone who claims to be a Christian is.

To be sure I do not believe Bush was a Christian despite his claims, I see Obama as more of a Christian than him. Also a point about those claiming to be Christians, they will be known by their deeds. “Matthew 7:16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?”


Raist

reply to post by Raist


I don't think that anyone here has pointed to Christians particularly to do this. I agree with you that only the insane would act on this, but you have to admit the passage is quite threatening.

The utter bastardization of Monotheism.
What part of the Big 10 don't these heretics comprehend?
does 'Thou shall not kill' Elude them?
How about the first 3 commandments regarding the Worship of ONLY the 'One and Only'?
Whether a devotee of Christianity or Islam these are not Monotheists. Their idol worship alone proves that. Whether a Jihadist or a 'Soldier of Christ' these hell bent pagans are destroying the basic tennets of Monotheism.

reply to post by whatukno


That is just it. The verse Psalms 109:8 is not threatening in my view. Even more so not for the way it was being used in the stickers. That is how some are choosing to take it though, much like the nut case would who might act on it.

Now granted the verses that follow are threatening but they are not referenced at all so they have no point being mentioned, as the woman reporting the story was doing.

The verse in question though is not intended to be threatening but is being taken that way. Understanding intent is a big part of judgment. This could also be why much of the time our judicial system is seen as being unjust. People including lawyers and judges have trouble seeing the intent through their own interpretations.

There were some throughout the thread putting blamed on Christians in general, that is normal. My posts while sometimes being directed at people tend to add things for any who might read them. I was not saying you were pointing to Christians in general. I am sorry if you seen it that way. For those people I still have the questions I ask in my other posts.


Raist