Six Myths About Christianity

This morning while enjoying a pleasant conversation with a fellow ATSer on Christianity and how the different denominations perceive scripture, I got a knock at the door.

Two little old ladies from the Watchtower organization asked me if I would like to know the truth.So I said sure, hang on let me get my Bible.

One of the ladies said oh,that wont be necessary I have one right here.She then handed me a small little pamphlet stating who the Jehovah Wittnesses are.

In it it said that even though most Christians would not say that they are Christians THEY ARE, and they completely endorse the apostle Peter's testimony regarding Jesus Christ.

She then handed me another pamphlet and it said Exposed: Six Myths About Christianity. As I began to read this one, I thought to myself that they are either Christian or they are not. It became clear that these people were not ordinary Christians.

Myth 1) The soul is immortal.
Myth2) The wicked suffer in hell
Myth 3) All good people go to heaven
Myth 4) God is a trinity
Myth 5) Mary is the mother of God
Myth 6) God approves of the use of images and icons in worship

At first glance some Christians would agree with at least 1 of these Myths
but under these myths they state a fact

Myth 1 Fact 1) At death a person ceases to exist.
Myth 2 Fact 2) God does not punish people in hell
Myth 3 Fact 3) The majority of good people will live forever on earth.
Myth 4 Fact 4) The trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention
Myth 5 Fact 5 )Mary was the mother of the son of god not of god himself
Myth 6 Fact 6) God does not approve of the use of images and icons.

Now, I realize that all Christians come from different denominations and have different views as to how the Bible is interpretated, and for the most part they are all orthodox in nature.

However, I do not believe that so called Christians should go around claiming that they have Exposed Christianity.

Their Myths and facts are simply not true and can be disputed.

When I attempted to show them proof, they told me that my Bible was not the inspired word of God.

They asked me if I wanted one of there Bibles called the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.

I told them that If they wanted to debate I would be more than happy to. One on one ,Your Bible verse mine. They told me that they could schedule a bible study where I could meet an elder, And that he would be more Knowledgeable about any questions I may have.

At this point I was livid. I told them both nicely that they should not go to peoples houses asking if they want to know the truth and then not be able to deliver the goods. I went on to say that It is purely up to the individual to decide what is Myth and what's not, Not an organization. Have a good Day.

For some reason I felt extremely sad for them when they left.

I mean what are these people trying to accomplish anyway?

Thanks for putting up with my rage. Any comments?

Mod Edit - All Caps Title.

[edit on Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:04:51 -0600 by MemoryShock]

I had a very strange conversation with some jehovah witnesses regarding whether women should be preachers.

We didn't have the same understanding of the bible, but we all used the same one. I never heard them say the bible was not the word of God.

My ex-wife got caught up with these folks and I studied quite a bit of the literature they were giving her. First of all they visit because they have to, it's part of their dogma to "witness". They do have some odd beliefs, they even remind me a bit of scientology.

I know what you mean about feeling sorry for them. They are devout and they believe faithfully what they are telling you. When I was reading their Bible I noticed that they refer to the Catholic church as "The Whore of Babylon". I thought, "Well that makes sense, if you are building a church you have to knock down the competition".

They have predicted the end of the world 2 or 3 times so far. Like the doomsayers here every time they are wrong they just move the date back. I downloaded some articles about them and showed them to my wife and she quit associating with them. It would only have been a question of time before, like the scientologists, they would have told her she couldn't be with me because I didn't accept their beliefs.

Think of Christianity as a great big tree.

The trunk of the tree is itself Christianity.
The roots of the tree, of course, are Judaism.
And the branches of the tree are the various religions that stem from Christianity. Roman Catholics, Jehova's Witnesses, Baptists, Lutherins, Anglicans, Protestants, etc.

They all branch from the same teachings of Christ, but they ALL INTERPRET Christ's teachings differently.

Does one branch interpret Christ's teachings better or more accurately than another branch?
The answer to that question all depends on which branch you're swinging from.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by jupiter869]

This is new. I don't think I've ever read what happens if you don't just urge the visitors to move along.

I was surprised at their statement that the Bible is not the inspired word of God. It seems to be among their beliefs, according to their website (scroll down to the first item in the table of beliefs and scriptural citations)

www.watchtower.org...

So, maybe these ladies just meant that they preferred their own translation to yours, and expressed themselves poorly.

The little table should clear up most of the "myths" claims. The key theological point where JW's differ from most others who call themselves Christians is probably their translation of John 1: 1, "... and the Word was a god." They take that to mean that the Christ was created, and so is inferior to the Creator. Thus, no Trinity, and Mary's son was not God.

Their affirmative claim about the Trinity is arguably tenable. The Council of Nicea produced most of the Nicene Creed, but had little to say about the Holy Spirit. Some decades later, the Council of Constantinople added most of the Holy Spirit material. So, you could say the doctrine of the Trinity wasn't settled until the Fourth Century, when these councils were held.

www.newadvent.org...

Nicene Christians would presumably rebut that the Holy Spirit is Biblical, and that it is of no relevance when the official Church finally got around to formalizing a summary of the doctrine.

In any event, thanks for the first-person account of an experience I shall never have myself .

It really annoys me when one Christian sect denies another Christian sect - - over nitpicking dribble.

If you believe Christ is your savior - you are Christian.

Here is a good site to read: Religious Tolerance

www.religioustolerance.org...

reply to post by eight bits

was surprised at their statement that the Bible is not the inspired word of God. It seems to be among their beliefs, according to their website (scroll down to the first item in the table of beliefs and scriptural citations)

I was surprised too.

I have nothing against these people except the fact that they came to MY door
putting MY religion down, saying that what I believe is in is a myth.

I mean come on now!, I don't go to other peoples houses telling them that there gonna burn in Hell.


The Bible I use is the KJV Which she did not recognize as inspired.
I also use the ASV which is based on the same text style as the NWT.
Why do they use there own translation of the Bible? Why don't they just use the real Bible? eeerrrr.. (lol)

Originally posted by jupiter869
Think of Christianity as a great big tree.

The trunk of the tree is itself Christianity.
The roots of the tree, of course, are Judaism.
And the branches of the tree are the various religions that stem from Christianity. Roman Catholics, Jehova's Witnesses, Baptists, Lutherins, Anglicans, Protestants, etc.

They all branch from the same teachings of Christ, but they ALL INTERPRET Christ's teachings differently.

Does one branch interpret Christ's teachings better or more accurately than another branch?
The answer to that question all depends on which branch you're swinging from.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by jupiter869]

I think of Christianity as more of a giant cesspool. The oldest dead forgotten sewage on the bottom is Judaism, the stuff in the middle starting to settle is typical christianity and the stuff at the top which swirls the most and has the most vile stench would be of the evangelical variety.

Originally posted by oliveoil
Their Myths and facts are simply not true and can be disputed.
When I attempted to show them proof, they told me that my Bible was not the inspired word of God.
They asked me if I wanted one of there Bibles called the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.
Any comments?

The main difference between the JW Bible and what is used today, is that they enter the name Jehovah in some places, where they think it was left out. They do not want to discuss how they arrived at their conclusions of there it was left out because then it would come out that, using their own argument, one would have to agree that some places where Jehovah was meant, actually applies to Jesus, which they will not tolerate.
The Catholic Church worships the Great Whore. I have to think that the church is not the whore, itself. She is a goddess who oversees the oath (taken by the ordinary church goer, and on up the chain) of fidelity to the men who rule from the Vatican.
The roles of who holds the delegated authority of God may be fluid, beyond normal comprehension, making an enforced creed, itself, an abomination.
The word for torment in relation with the Lake of Fire, has to do with trying. One way of looking at it is that the fire itself performs the judgment.

reply to post by jmdewey60

They do not want to discuss how they arrived at their conclusions of there it was left out because then it would come out that, using their own argument, one would have to agree that some places where Jehovah was meant, actually applies to Jesus, which they will not tolerate.

I was doing some research on them. They believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. and that only 144000 people are gonna be saved. How did they get that?

reply to post by oliveoil


They got that number from the Bible. In the Revelations 7:5, it states 144,000 from the tribes of Israel were sealed. Then it goes on to say which tribes they are.

As for:
Myth 5) Mary is the mother of God

Some Catholics have incorporated worshiping Mary as a mother of God and as a co-redemtrix. The Vatican idolize Mary as if she was greater then Jesus, when in the bible it does not even give her praise. The bible teaches that salvation, and the kingdom of heaven are only received through Jesus.

Myth 6) God approves of the use of images and icons in worship

Again, the Catholic and some other Christian denominations put up false images and engraved idols of Jesus and Mary. I used to go to a Catholic church as a kid, where they told you to go and pray to the foot of Mary. As a child I did not think twice. If they told me now, I would tell them what is wrong with doing that.

Beware of Mary and the rosary. It is kind of useless when you are praying to Mary more then Jesus and God.

When people from one of these wacky sects show up on your doorstep, The best thing to do is to hide under the furniture until they go away.

If that doesn't work and they see you hiding under the couch and you HAVE to answer the door, take all of the literature they are willing to give you, ask for copies for your friends and relatives. Tell them you will call them when you are ready to speak with them further.

When they walk away, toss all of their junk in the trash and never call them back. That way they won't be able to give it to any of you're weaker minded neighbors. You just might save a soul.

If they show up again, tell them they must have talked to your evil twin.

It seems they've learned to avoid my favorite tactic for dealing with them;

I offer to get my bible to speak with them. When I return, I blow the dust from on top of my Bible into their faces. (I'm Catholic so there is PLENTY of dust on MY Bible) While they are coughing and blinking, I grab them by the seat of their pants and heave them off my front porch.

(Now you know why we Catholics let our Bibles get so dusty)

Apparently, they've been warned about me.

reply to post by reasonable

I think of Christianity as more of a giant cesspool. The oldest dead forgotten sewage on the bottom is Judaism, the stuff in the middle starting to settle is typical christianity and the stuff at the top which swirls the most and has the most vile stench would be of the evangelical variety.

Wow, you sure do have some angry feelings towards these groups.

I take it that Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny skipped over your house when you were a kid.

The JW positions were common in new Christian groups that arose in the wake of the Millerite Movement in the early 1800's...

Although they claim apostolic origin, JW's were actually an early spin-off of the group who formed into the Seventh-day Adventists.

All the issues in there theological systems arise from their view of who Jesus is.

JW's Christologically are Arians...
...SDA's were originally Arians but changed to coincide with the New Testament writers that He was the 'I AM' who appeared to Abraham and Moses, the Shekinah that resided in the Sanctury who become human.


Myth 1 Fact 1) At death a person ceases to exist.
Sometimes called 'soul sleep', this view is essentially a knee-jerk reaction to 'immortality of the soul'.

IMO neither view is a correct reflection of the views expressed in the biblical manuscripts.

Jews in the first century held several views on the transitional and post-mortem state of man...
...this was somewhat clarified for Christians with Jesus resurrection.

The idea of an 'immortal soul' has its origin in Homer and later developed by Plato...
...these ideas were introduced into Christian ideas as the church became more Gentile.

Actually, the Bible is unclear about what happens post-mortem to unbelievers...
...but it seems that believers whose spirit are united to the Spirit of Jesus...
...are 'with Him' and are later given transphysical bodies at the 1st resurrection.


Myth 2 Fact 2) God does not punish people in hell.
The idea of an eternal hell also came from Homer and Plato.
'Ghenna' translated 'hell' in the KJV was Jerusalem's garbage dump.
Worms ate the refuse and fires burned off the methane...
...it is a metaphor guys!

The only example of 'eternal fire' is recorded in Jude 1:7 "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Sodom and Gomorrha were destroyed by 'aionios pur', literally 'eternal fire'.

Gamora (Gomorrha) can be seen on Google Earth at 31 19 38 N 35 22 36 E...
Sodom at 31°11'47.62"N 35°23'47.34"E

There is no 'eternal fire' at this location now...

So the term 'eternal fire' must mean 'complete destruction' by one who is 'eternal' and not a reference to a fire that never stops burning.


Myth 3 Fact 3) The majority of good people will live forever on earth.
Again this is sort of half right...
...Revelation speaks of a heaven and earth coming together on a renewed earth.

Myth 4 Fact 4) The trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention
It was 'implicit' in the Hebrew thought and 'explicit' in Christian thought.
There is amble evidence that God expresses Himself to humans in three forms...
...but then it could just be the way a multdimension being appears to us in the four dimensions we perceive.

Myth 5 Fact 5 )Mary was the mother of the son of god not of god himself.
The RC church position shares some feature with Babylonian Ishtar and Tamus.
The JW view arises from their Arian presuppositions.

I don't think either doctrinal position reflects the New Testament understanding,


Myth 6 Fact 6) God does not approve of the use of images and icons.
This is clearly stated in the Decalogue...
...early Christians also seemed to have held this view...
...the current RC view was again due to most Christian converts being Gentiles and including their pagan ikonery into their new faith.

IMO all doctrine begins and ends by understanding who Jesus is...
...this is the flaw of the JW's and the confusion of the RC's and most others.



[edit on 18-11-2009 by troubleshooter]

reply to post by oliveoil

They believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. and that only 144000 people are gonna be saved. How did they get that?

As I understand it, the word archangel refers to only one being, because it means the highest. So you do not find mention of another archangel, besides Michael.

1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be suddenly caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

If you read this to understand that Jesus returns and calls out to those waiting for him, with the voice of the archangel, then it is not so much of a stretch to believe that at an earlier time, he was Micheal, himself.
Daniel calls him the prince. "At that time Michael, the great prince who watches over your people, will arise."
An angel appeared to Daniel, in great majesty that completely overwhelmed Daniel, who spoke of the one, Michael, who helped him. There appeared later, as a man, one to explain to Daniel what the angel meant, earlier. This being who appeared as if it was in the form of a man, said that it was he who was the one who had helped the angel.
So here is this profoundly powerful being who, if he had appeared in his full glory, would have killed Daniel, came, without any external manifestation of his position in the realm of the highest, as a man, to touch Daniel with a touch that gave healing and strength, to calmly teach Daniel what he needed to know. This person was in fact, Jesus Christ, as he was, before he was made not just to look like a man, to to be born, as a real man, the very real man, as Adam our father in the flesh could have been.


[edit on 18-11-2009 by jmdewey60]

Originally posted by FortAnthem
When people from one of these wacky sects show up on your doorstep, The best thing to do is to hide under the furniture until they go away.

"one of these wacky sects"

I just couldn't let that go.

reply to post by oliveoil

When door to door evangelists offer me their tracks, magazines, versions of the bible I say, "Sure if you will take mine and read it tonight". I take what they offer (set it on the shelf next to my front door) and hand them whatever the last true believer gave me (i.e., whatever was last placed on that shelf). Right now I have a copy of the book of morman sitting next to the door just waiting to be regifted.

Saves a lot of argueing and debate.
Makes them happy and isn't that what Jesus would want me to do?

Originally posted by Equinox99


As for:
Myth 5) Mary is the mother of God

Some Catholics have incorporated worshiping Mary as a mother of God and as a co-redemtrix. The Vatican idolize Mary as if she was greater then Jesus, when in the bible it does not even give her praise. The bible teaches that salvation, and the kingdom of heaven are only received through Jesus.

In order:
No they don't
No it doesn't


Eric

Originally posted by reasonable

Originally posted by jupiter869
Think of Christianity as a great big tree.

The trunk of the tree is itself Christianity.
The roots of the tree, of course, are Judaism.
And the branches of the tree are the various religions that stem from Christianity. Roman Catholics, Jehova's Witnesses, Baptists, Lutherins, Anglicans, Protestants, etc.

They all branch from the same teachings of Christ, but they ALL INTERPRET Christ's teachings differently.

Does one branch interpret Christ's teachings better or more accurately than another branch?
The answer to that question all depends on which branch you're swinging from.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by jupiter869]

I think of Christianity as more of a giant cesspool. The oldest dead forgotten sewage on the bottom is Judaism, the stuff in the middle starting to settle is typical christianity and the stuff at the top which swirls the most and has the most vile stench would be of the evangelical variety.

You're harboring a lot of anger there. And I do understand the frustration more and more people are having especially with the outspoken hypocrites of religion. It is those people you need to just close the door on.

NONE of the "Christian" religions teach what Christ ACTUALLY taught. He's shaking his head every time he looks at us try to jockey our own religion on top like it was some kind of sporting event. But among the jockeying and hypocrisy, there are seeds of truth. We all have to weed out the bad in order to find the good.

The idea of the trinity did indeed come to be when you state, however it is simply a way of explaining how God coexists with three different ways of being so to speak. Just because the idea came to be when it did does not make it automatically invalid.

Surely you would not deem gravity invalid simply for being discovered when it was, so why do you use this similar logic regarding the idea of the trinity?