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Originally posted by PSUSA
Well said. I know exactly what you are writing about. I disagree with you about Paul, but the rest I understand. I dont see Paul as the "prince of this world" and really don't understand the problem some have with Paul. But maybe you're right.
those letters were selected into the bible by the politicians
Those letters were chosen by those politicians for a reason.
Originally posted by oliveoil
I get what your saying but this seems a little to vague. Paul is unsure he has the Holy Ghost.
1 Corrinthians 7:40 Paul is saying And I THINK I also have the Spirit of God.
Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by badmedia
those letters were selected into the bible by the politicians
Those letters were chosen by those politicians for a reason.
I'm just wondering who do you think selected Paul's letters, and for what reason do you think they had?
Originally posted by badmedia
reply to post by pthena
I am very much bound to the law. Meaning, I believe the commandments must be followed. Jesus doesn't change the laws.
The problem was, nobody understood the commandments. Because they did not understand, the people were unable to determine the difference between gods law, and the laws and traditions of men. They had no clue the true spirit of things.
So it's not that Jesus gets rid of the law, or that he changes the laws. He doesn't, he clarifies and shows people what is god's law and what were the laws of men(society).
Wisdom is to take the knowledge, experiences and understandings and then make the correct choice.
As the reason why you were put on this earth in the first place was because you were capable of evil and knowing evil, the only way back out is to make the correct choice and do not do evil. You can think of it as a school
Jesus shows you the path and way to do that.
Also, I have to mention - Please be careful that I do not deceive you. I am not trying to do so by any means, however maybe I am not doing the best job explaining myself and so forth. In the end, I am of no authority and nothing I say should be accepted at all. I would rather shut up than deceive someone.
It makes me nervous and uncomfortable if people praise or thank me in any manner to be honest. All I can think is - omg, what have I done wrong? Please don't turn me into a Pharisee or let me wake up in the seat of Moses.
Originally posted by pthena
As free from the Law, I'm trying to figure out still the relationships between specific good rules and the general 'Love' command. I have a hard time referencing specific texts, but James wrote something about a Law that makes free. This probably isn't my best time of day either, mornings I'm more with it.
Without some rules, we may hurt out of ignorance, I want to avoid that.
You said before that you were not to have authority. I was thanking you as a brother, you can see that I have my own beliefs and theories, there isn't much I really know with certainty.
Since you have been free with your experience, maybe I should reciprocate. Back in 1973,4 Jesus appeared with another man. Like a window opening in front of me. Jesus said, "If you are mine, then I am yours. Fear not" I didn't ask who the other man was, so I don't know. Not a very detailed calling, so I've been doing the best I could. Sometimes I would give up and pretend to be an atheist or something else, but Jesus never let go and I didn't. So I know Jesus lives. I know that I need not fear. And I am his, and he is mine. I have seen many signs that God loves people. Apart from that I believe some things, think some things, and guess about others.
Like you, when I read the words of Jesus recorded in the Gospels, I recognize my Lord.
Originally posted by badmedia
It's cool, I just wanted to make sure I was being crystal clear. I won't even talk to my wife about these things, simply because she will just accept what I say and repeat it. It makes her mad, but she is better off without me telling her things as acceptance is the enemy of understanding. Here I don't really have to worry about it as much, to everyone here I am just someone on a forum etc. But not making myself into any kind of authority is that important to me. I would soon keep my mouth shut than to knowingly allow it to happen.
I've never meet Jesus. When I think of Jesus, I think more in terms of "the truth, the way and the life". Meaning, he represents those things so well they are basically interchangeable to me.
To me, it doesn't even matter if he is real or whatever. You could flat out prove to me that the entire story of Jesus was made up, and I would not change in my opinion at all. To me, either way whoever wrote the story would have had to have known the father, as I know that is where the understanding itself comes from.
Originally posted by pthena
First attempt at multiple quote boxes. I probably cut out something about laws. So laws provide a sort of structure to keep us from doing things we would be sorry for later. Like a child before experience has been gained enough to set limits for herself. Later, good limits are internalized, become natural. I think that's what you meant. I didn't think to keep that part of quote before I cut it out. I'm still trying to get quote boxes down.
I read a paper recently by a professor in TN, about how individuality is being suppressed through media manipulation. The result is broken personalities conforming to behavior patterns without being able to stop because their personalities had been that broken.
You wrote once that you found the Father because you were shocked and amazed by how evil/insane things seemed to be. When I try to understand today's politicians and media people, it seems obvious that not much rational thought is involved in what they are saying. They seem to be broken. I'm glad the Father found you. He helps you keep your self. And He refused to take your free will, even when you offered. The Father is protecting your individual self from being lost or broken in this increasingly insane world. Of course you don't want to be any part of breaking some one else's self. That would be bad.
Jesus said often that he was learning from the Father and doing the things he saw the Father doing. He even cast out unclean spirits from people so that they could have their minds back under their own control.
There's probably something you could say to your wife without being authoritative about it. The Father loves your wife too, and wants her self protected too. It's a nutso world, we got to help each other through it.
I never met the Father. But I believe in Him through knowing Jesus. Jesus said something about sheep knowing his voice, and to know one is to know the other. And we're the same flock after all. Some day I will see the Father and you will see Yeshua the son of man.
Originally posted by badmedia
The furthest I have ever been able to go is to where the only things in existance were me and the father. I could not go any further than that, because "I" would cease to exist. Our "I" and our individuality is actually only possible due to our limited perception/knowledge. If I had gone further and seen the "whole of god", then that limited perception and knowledge would be lost and "I" would cease to exist. 1 day I will do that, but the journey back and the experience is the point of the individuality(soul) in the first place and is something we all do/will do. All things of the father will eventually return to the father, and the physical will "pass away".
I had an experience back in '96 that sounds similar.
I was profoundly depressed and fell into bed, not caring whether I ever got up again. After a few days I felt myself to be as an onion and the layers were peeling away. I was fairly thin by the time I realized that each layer was an experience of my life. That my self is made of my experiences, thoughts, feelings, actions, and words. When I was almost nothing, I saw at the core a bright shining grain of sand, maybe diamond chip. I felt that it was beyond experience, but that I myself am the onion and I live in the layers. And yes, to get closer to the core would be to lose my self, my life. So of course I wrapped back up and rolled out of bed.
The father is within you, just as he is within Jesus. Make no mistake about that. If not for the father within a person, they would have no consciousness, no understanding, no intelligence, no observer and they would not be aware at all. It is only because the father is within you that you have these things to begin with.
If that was the Father within me, then I really should wait until I'm through with life to meet Him closer. In the meantime I try to be like Jesus. He has authority over me.
Once, in my foolishness, I thought, "If he is my brother, then I'm as good as he is." That foolishness didn't last long. He's so much older and wiser. I'm just a kid learning how to ride a bike. I believe he will always be above and ahead of me now and forever.
For now, all I can do is help other people, mostly with charity, because that's not hard to do at all. I think I've helped in other ways too.
God loves people, not religion. Peace
[edit on 11/24/2009 by badmedia]
Originally posted by jmdewey60
I normally just read Hebrews as an authoritative book on how to put the Old Covenant into proper context in light of the accomplishments and ongoing work of Jesus as the Christ. In my own mind, there is a personality behind the book that I feel as a presence, who is speaking the words, but it doesn't say, "I am Paul", for some reason. I think that whoever it is, is speaking with the same authority of Paul.
That might be, that gentiles in general do not appreciate it. Depends on how you look at it, I guess.
Probably what you are most interested in is what Jesus did for the Jews which would seem above and beyond what he did for the Gentiles. Now this is really something I haven't really thought on deeply even though the Elijah Message mentions it. You pushed me though, and I think that Gentiles just might not be able to appreciate it.
Apparently there is something built into the law that foretold the life and work of Jesus. For all I know, there could be more in the Law than the Prophets, that was being fulfilled. I, being a gentile, can look at the general situation, as an objective observer, and gain, maybe not so much an appreciation, as in a feeling, but an appreciation as in a certain degree of insight into the divine mind who would have thought up all this, the system of law and sin and forgiveness, on a bigger scale.
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by badmedia
I am looking for ignorance?
Well if you think everything in the Bible is just made up stories to justify what some priests were already doing for some obscure reason.
I don't think that was the position that Jesus took. Was Jesus seeking ignorance by paying attention to the scriptures? I don't think so. Jesus was on a mission and it had to do with the Old Testament. I don't remember Jesus saying anything like, "I have come to this world to tell you the answer lies within". There is an external God and Jesus made a way for our communion with that God, and it was according to a plan that was made in heaven before he was born. This same plan was in place even earlier than that and predates Moses, who reflects that plan in his law.
I don't know about all that eating from the tree of knowledge business because I was not there and I never made any sort of choice about it. Is this some way to explain life? That we decided to have a crappy existence for the reason of later appreciating a good life sometime in the future? That makes no sense to me. All the little spirits who want to be born in the universe somewhere are all lined up and God asks. "Who wants to go to the Evil Planet?" All the volunteers get sent here for the purpose of attaining some sort of special enlightenment? That's kind of a strange way of looking at it, that we are accommodated in our willful desire to be disobedient?
Wake up? Well thanks for the advice. I don't have any sort of influence on the leadership of anything and I don't take any orders from any kind of leadership.
Give this message to all your church leaders. Wake up and get on the ball.
I don't see the book of Revelation giving Christians a mandate to politically fight the beast. The message is for the people of the earth to worship the One who created the earth.
He may have thought he was Abraham. Instead of God finding Abraham, Muhammad found God? Maybe you can see my problem here. That doesn't mean I can not be persuaded, just that enigmatic one liners don't do much for me. I may be a bit cynical, and forgive my insolence. Thick ears, and all that. Being a prophet has never been much fun, oops, except for the blessed be his name with all the wives. (forgive me for I know not what I write) Remember the two prophets lying in the streets of Babylon, they had a miserable time of it. It could be that the more of a prophet one is, the worse you get for your trouble, Jesus being a case in point. The way I look at it, the closer one is to the prophet, the more difficult it is to understand him. The people who were witness to Jesus preaching got no more out of the experience than we do by reading the Gospels, if it was otherwise, it just would not be fair, right? So God caused them to not understand, if that makes any sense. So if you were able to somehow go back in time to listen to Jesus do a sermon, you would end up standing there saying to yourself, "What the hell did he just say?"
The Lord found him in a desolate land, in an empty wasteland where animals howl. He continually guarded him and taught him; he continually protected him like the pupil of his eye.