Boy Refuses To Stand For Pledge of Allegiance

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by Seiko

 

He is ten, He doesn't know anything about injustice. Most of the adults on ATS scream injustice everytime they don't get another government entitlement.

It is a disruuption. His teacher had to take time several times to address the issue. I think they should suspend him for disobedience.

Obviously it has been left to the parents and now you have this little brat disobeying his teacher and disrupting class by not following her instructions. What if next week he decides he hates Einstein and refuses to participate in science class as a protest? Is that going to be ok?


[edit on 17-11-2009 by HotSauce]

How is sitting quietly a "disruption"? I refused to give the pledge pretty much from Jr high forward because of "..one nation under god..", teachers recognized my opinion and left me alone. At times a few kids just sat, it was no big deal.

A Google search of define:disruption
S: (n) disruption, perturbation (the act of causing disorder)

A kid sitting silently is hardly an act of causing disorder, if he had a trout and was grill slapping the other kids.. fine.

Every kid should question why they are forced to stand and recite the words of someone else, especially if those words are personally objectionable, false or silly old ideals that our so called leaders have ignored for generations. These days there is liberty and justice for some, and the politicians, oligarchs / banker-gangster DC mafia elite are more equal than the unwashed masses of surfs..

The rest of the sheep kids blindly droning on obeying that out dated meaningless ritual are the ones feeding the disorder that has become the united states govt... more kids should sit in recognition the virtues "the pledge" represents are laughable relative to modern life in the US.

What exactly does standing, making hand gestures and saying words accomplish?.. other than the obvious NOTHING... it's goofy.

Little kids are brutally honest and quick to call BS when they see BS.. they're not tainted by nationalistic dogma and dont let political parties or churches choose their little opinions for them.

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by Seiko

 

No I am not saying he should be beaten into submission but that schools went to hell when they stopped being able to discipline kids with corporal punishment. I received more than a few first class ass whoopins in school and it did me some good.

It is not about his right to protest. It is about doing what he is told to do by someone who is in charge of him. He's 10, what does he know about protesting?

studies show that beating children lowers their IQ. I wasnt beat (hit,) till I was 18, and its traumatizing. Still haunts me and makes my dad look disgusting to me. It was over me not necessarily going to college. Today I have a good job, but hate it. Sorry no good, think of something else.

Refusing to do the pledge, huh. I did that from 8th grade, onward. Some teachers tried to force me to do it. Others just listened to my reason and called it good.

I used to stand for the pledge but not take part in it, as I was a very unhappy student, about what my country had been doing.

And then I realized, It wasnt my country doing terrible things, it was sick aggressive psychopaths who made it into positions of power that do the terrible things.

The idea of America is the best country in the world, with the most freedoms. It was founded on right principals.

But thats the trick of these people, to make us HATE america, even though America is great, it just has many bad people.

Also, this country WAS NOT founded as a Christian nation. this country was built by freemasons. In order to be a mason, you have to have a belief in a almighty god. It didnt have to be christian. so the people who helped create this country we're not afraid or worried about other religions.

That kid is being brainwashed by his parents. He will make a good pet some day. A good slave and a good pet. Not a lawyer.

He will learn some hard lessons on his way.

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by fordrew

 

I think this is a good reason why we shouldn't have stopped giving kids a good ass whooopin' at school. Even if he does disagree he needs to follow the teachers commands. I think he is doing it just to try to dominate the teacher. Too bad he is not in Catholic school so she could bust him up with a ruler. The little brat will probably be in jail by 20.

were you born in the 1800's or something?

As complete outsider from a country that has no 'pledge' , is anyone able to give me the answer to just WHY you Americans have to have a pledge?

What conceivable useful purpose does it have?

What I find so ludicrous is why do children, most of whom are born in the country require some sort of daily renewal of their allegiance to the country they are born into?.. by default wouldnt you think a kids first allegiance (when of the age that such things actually matter... which is usually AFTER their school life is over) would be to their homeland?

I can see it being something of use in a military situation to instill morale (or more like brainwashing servitude through false national pride)...

But for schools, children, spots games, public events... there's another notorious country and regime that did similar things, if on a slightly larger scale about 70 years ago.

So really, why have a pledge?.. it serves absolutely no purpose beyond bolstering 'patriotic' outbursts of aggression when required and silencing of dissent.

...especially in regards to school children of all things.

Edit:- if someone else earlier in the thread has answered this, then just point me to that, I did a cursory read but didnt see anything in particular.


[edit on 27-11-2009 by BigfootNZ]

reply to post by Subjective Truth


So sorry...but your nuts. Mod...dock my points.
Where in the world did you find that this kid was being used by the Gay rights movement? This story wasn't even picked up by gay media untill it was already being circulated around the major networks. And further more - this took place in Arkansas - the most red of the red states. And as unfortunate as it is - the gay rights movement has made very little headway here...I know because I'm a gay Arkansan and a vetran of the movement. This is about a brilliant young mind who knows what's right and what's wrong... sad to say the same can't be said about you.

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by fordrew

 

I think this is a good reason why we shouldn't have stopped giving kids a good ass whooopin' at school. Even if he does disagree he needs to follow the teachers commands. I think he is doing it just to try to dominate the teacher. Too bad he is not in Catholic school so she could bust him up with a ruler. The little brat will probably be in jail by 20.

Now that's just silly. Teachers have not right to issue unreasonable demands, or to demand the recitation of oaths form their pupils. I mean, if he asked the kid to punch the student to his left, would it be wrong of him to refuse?

Why does a teacher or the state presume to have a right to demand such a display? The Supreme Court ruled in 2006 that states may not mandate the recitation of the pledge, as this violates the 1st and 145th amendments.

Nobody has a right to tell me or anyone else what songs they need to sing, pins they need to wear, or other circus acts they need to perform, in order to 'prove' their citizenship. That's just plain tyrannical. It personally gives me the creeps something awful.

Requiring it is precisely antithetical to the principles of the nation to which it gives lip service.

Here's a website about the origins of the pledge.

It was designed by advocates of national socialism for just the reasons you might suspect a national socialist to advocate it: worship of the state.

It is abhorrent. It is the opposite of what we are supposed to stand for as a nation. It is about power, fawning, and control.

rexcurry.net...

You don't have to use your child as a pawn for gay rights (I don't even know what people mean by that) for them to see what is wrong and right.

Children of that age have a very strong feel for rules, fairness and are really starting to be aware of the larger world around them.

The beauty of this country is that all people are supposed to be allowed basic certain freedoms. As long as your freedom isn't infringing on mine there is no reason to dissallow it.

The fact that a 10 year old boy has the heart and bravery to stand up for what he believes is right and to do in the context of the pledge being hypocritical speaks volumes about his character in my opinion.

We need to be raising a generation of children who understand that they can make a difference, that their opinions are valid and each person truly has equal opportunity to pursue happiness....sort of like the constitution!!
That is how we will see the change we wish to see in this world.

This doesn't mean we let them run wild...it means we give them a chance to express their own opinions in a healthy, non destructive way...such as sitting during the pledge of allegiance.

In my own family we strive to teach that everyone is different in some way and that people have different beliefs, different families and different opinions and that is ok. As long as you are not hurting yourself, others, or animals then whatever you do is no business of ours!!!

And to be honest a country with the divorce and remarriage rate that the US has really doesn't have much right to go stomping around, screaming about the sanctity of marriage.

Bill and Fred's marriage, or Jan and Pam's, or even Linda and Bob's marriage doesn't affect my marriage (or your's) in any way shape or form.

Originally posted by TrueTruth
Here's a website about the origins of the pledge.

It was designed by advocates of national socialism for just the reasons you might suspect a national socialist to advocate it: worship of the state.

It is abhorrent. It is the opposite of what we are supposed to stand for as a nation. It is about power, fawning, and control.

rexcurry.net...

Hmmm interesting site, and while I believe alot of it and its scary stuff, some of it makes me wonder about the authenticity of the rest, given that his explanation for the swastika is flat out wrong, and national socialism as the Nazi's did it, was nothing like socialism... it was called that purely to draw votes from the socialist crowds in Germany. Saying the middle arms of the swastika form an 's' for socialism is putting two unrelated things together that arent really related at all... unless the Nazis deliberately turned the Indian swastika around to form an N S symbol.

Either way its an interesting site. Rather revealing all the same, particularly the straight armed salute to the flag.

Edit:- Saw this kid on the Dailyshow repeats yesterday night, where the news anchor asks him what a 'gay wad' was... the kid seems like a very intelligent boy given his responces, more of him there are, the better for America I say.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by BigfootNZ]

reply to post by BigfootNZ


I agree with you as a whole about the site.

And like you, I was most taken aback by the stiff arm salute of this children.


Either way, it's a form of brainwashing. Gives me the creeps.

reply to post by fordrew

Originally posted by fordrew
I am completely moved by this little boy. In the video you can tell that he is a little nervous but his message is QUITE clear. I would love to send that kid a mail or meet him and just shake his hand and tell him to keep fighting. It does not matter if this boy is right or wrong, HE IS FIGHTING FOR WHAT HE BELIEVES IN!

I think it certainly does matter if the boy is right or wrong. And that is the duty of the parents - to teach him right from wrong.

To me, there a two problems with the pledge of allegiance. "under God" being the first and "liberty and justice for all".

This nation was founded as a religious tolerant nation, to get away from religious persecution, but is it honestly necessary to put "under God" in the pledge? I KNOW America was founded by Christians. I KNOW that many if not all of the laws follow the morals of the Bible ( DO NOT steal, kill, ETC ETC!). But this day and age, there is no religious tolerance ANY MORE. If the average American sees a muslim woman with a burka, they would probably be disgusted and discriminated. If the average American sees a turban on a man's head, they would be disgusted. In my opinion, today, it is the opposite... we are oppressing expression of religion and culture today.

Nowhere does the Pledge say "Under the CHRISTIAN God". So muslims may insert (in their mind) Allah, and still say the pledge. Atheists may simply remain silent when the words "Under God" are spoken. This should satisfy everyone,

As far as "liberty and justice for all", well, we are not a perfect nation. There is no perfect nation on this earth. But that doesn't mean you cannot pledge to what is good in our nation, or what we want to achieve.

Here is a video of such opression of religion. This video almost brought me to tears, I can't even begin to express my emotions. This video has moved me greatly.

I don't know...this video seemed very contrived and fake to me. Especially the acting of the young male employee behind the counter. If he wasn't an ABC plant, I don't know who was.

As for the "liberty and justice for all" line, well its pretty self explanatory why anyone could oppose this line. Take it from the little boy why someone like I can oppose this line.

So, our country is not perfect and because of that you cannot pledge to it.

So then you can surely understand if your parents tell you that they cannot love you because you are not perfect, right?


[edit on 1-12-2009 by mishigas]

Double post


[edit on 1-12-2009 by mishigas]

All of you once again do not see how WRONG this report of this 10 year old standing up for GAY people is.

He is TEN YEARS OLD, he should have no concept of sex as an adult does, why does he fight for gay rights when he himself doesn't even know what it is?

I didnt even know what a condom was until I was 10 years old, and this kid knows what a gay is? I never knew what a gay was until I was 13, then again I live in Ireland and the whole gay thing didn't really get popular here until the last 9 years.

My point is, the news story should not have been played, a child should not know what a gay person is until they are old enough to ACTUALLY comprehend the basics of sex.

My opinion, the parents of this child should have some child or social officer visit them to see what that child has witnessed in that house, that kid could have been sexually harassed at home and all the media cares about is weather or not he stood for the flag?

This world is messed up, I cant wait to cross over to the other side, seriously.. TEN YEARS OLD WTF?!!! He shouldnt know what a gay is at that age.

[edit on 1/12/2009 by the_denv]

I am going to take the road of the devils advocate here, and please do not boo me until you finish reading the posting:
As much as I will respect the childs right to protest as he sees the injustices of society, his act by not standing for the pledge of allegience, is disrespectful. We are Americans first and foremost, no matter what those policies are, be it that we agree or disagree with such. I would agree if he choose not to recite the Pledge, that is acceptable, but not standing and showing respect, well that is just not acceptable, no matter what the reasons are.
Now on the second part, there are several things going on here. One is that the person behind the counter, well that is bad customer service pure and simple. But the second part of this is that we are in an armed conflict, and all PC must be put aside. A radical muslim terrorist group did launch an attack and declare war on the US, and in any armed conflict, you are going to have to offend the enemy no matter what. You can't fight or win a war with kid gloves. You win wars by taking off the kid gloves and taking the olive branch and whacking the enemy as hard as possible to make him think twice about attacking. Now I am all for being cultural, and being religious, however, if you look like those who the country is in an armed conflict, you are setting yourself up to be on the receiving end of bad behavour, and that is fear. People have been led into a conflict, told that the enemy is radical islam and they are afraid. The other aspect is that most people who did not speak up, from what I could see were white, and in this day and age, if a white person speaks up and someone disagrees guess what it could be considered a hate crime, or they are labeled. This is the society we live in, where groups refuse to identify as Americans, and are afraid.

You don't have to understand the ins and outs of sex whether gay or straight to understand what gay means. It is about more than sex after all.

My son at 7 offered up this tidbit of information......"Gay means that two men or two women are in love and get married, and sometimes one of them wears a dress." This was something he figured out on his own.

His explanation of where babies come from at the same age...."Babies happen when a mommy and a daddy love each other, then the baby grows and the mommy poops it out when it is time."

reply to post by Scarcer

HERE is a perfect example why it's in your child's best interest to "obey authority."

Give me a break.

The coyote tells two chickens to cross the road. The first chicken listens to the coyote who's bigger and gets ran over.

The second chicken happens to be a free thinker, and says no and lives for another day so the coyote decides to eat him for lunch.

True freedom comes when the first chicken learns to dodge traffic.

Patriotism is a hair's breadth away from racism. We should realise we belong to the world just as much, if not more, than we belong to a country. Just as millennia ago we associated ourselves with our clans, now we do the same with our countries. The world is smaller, and the day we stop cherishing these arbitrary borders, the happier we all will be.