Boy Refuses To Stand For Pledge of Allegiance

Originally posted by HotSauce
He's 10, what does he know about protesting?

What does he know about pledging?

Children are too young to pledge to anything.

reply to post by fordrew


it seems like things are bigger issues today then they used to be. there was a kid in my class who refused to stand because he was a jehova's witness. nobody critisized him or tried to force him to do anything. they understood.

Originally posted by fordrew

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
I am truly sad to see this thread, it is a sad state or union is in when this is what we call a good stand. Does it not bother anyone that this 10 year old is being used by the gay community to further their cause? He is 10 years old for gods sake. This is not a good thing no matter how you spin it. Honestly I do not have a problem with gay people in general but when they use children to further the cause it is wrong.

Also I bet you are the same people who think it is alright for a teacher to come out of the closet to a bunch of 1st graders. Why should children have this put on them? It is the same thing for the parents who take their children to abortion rallys. Children should not be used this way!!!!

And his parents should feel ashamed of themselves. This is border line child abuse. Like I said before would it be alright for him to be used this way for the abortion cause?

First, I am pretty sure the kid is straight for one thing. His mom may be involved in gay rights and she may encourage him to join, but at least he can distinguish between equality and inequality. I am pretty much against gay marriage, for one thing it should not be called gay marriage but a civil union ( OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES.).

But I do not care if this kid is advocating it because nobody told him to one day to stay seated during the pledge of allegance. Nobody told him to go on tv and preach his opinion. He decided to think it over and he himself made that decision to do so. That is the beauty of free speech and everyone has the right to do so.

Why reprimand a child for (INTELLIGENTLY FOR HIS AGE) exercising his 1st amendment?

[edit on 17-11-2009 by Subjective Truth]

I only get 4000 characters so I will post again. I think you missed the point I was making. Alot of times when people are so wrapped up in a issue they dont see what is actually happening. This child is being used even if he made his own choice. Please try to look outside of the box.

Just a little fyi; In 1943, there was a law suit the the jehovah witnesses won that allowed them not to have to "salute" the Flag. (They thought saluting the flag was worshiping it. Instead they worship the watchtower society for "which it stands.")

Fast forward today, and some Lesbians kid protests saluting the Flag. and its a story? The retired teacher should have excused the kid for a Bath room break while the rest of the kids "saluted" the flag.

Give it a couple years, and it will be some christian protesting the Flag that allows gay marriages. And the liberal establishment will be up in arms. History is cyclical.

reply to post by HotSauce


Teacher: Touch this.

Student: No.

Teacher: Im your teacher and i told you to touch it, you obey me.

Stucent: ok.

End result.....molested student. You want your kid to obey his teacher all the time?

And it's still somewhat America and the law says he doesn't have to stand to say an ignorant pledge that is false. Watch the video of this young man. He is very well spoken and very much a free thinker....to bad your not.

What a great kid. He is intelligent, well spoken and has great morals.

If only more adults were like this child the world would be a much better place.

Good for him! I hope he keeps fighting the good fight!

I hope he does become a lawyer one day too.

May his dream of justice and liberty for all, one day come true!

I am starting to think no one can look at the big picture. Thia has nothing to do with the teacher or even the kid. This has to do with how he is being used to push a gay agenda. Cant the gay community make a stand with having to step on a childs back to do it. I see nothing wrong with being gay I even feel that they should be able to marry. I am a big believer that as long as it does not infringe on another persons right it is ok in my book.

I keep hearing how he is a hero and that kids should say no to teachers so they do not get molested. Does no one see the problem here?

Once again I ask one simple question will one of you that think this kid is a hero and see nothing wrong answer it? If this kid did the same thing to push a pro-life agenda would that be ok. I will have soooo much respect if even one person will answer that simple question.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by Subjective Truth]

Well this is my first reply, and in all honesty i have just registered so i am being observed for three months in order to comply with the rules, however i am compelled by this thread to say something, so sorry if offend anyone it is not meant to do that.

I have a 10 year old son and this story saddens me in the sense that he is 10!!!, there will be plenty of time for this young man to make political stands as and when he has a balanced view of the world. There is always talk of media bias and the powers that be on this site and i encourage that as all discussion is good, as an open minded person (as i hope you will soon see as i reply more often) it impossible for me to comprehend the fact that he has the experience to make this choice. He has to have garnished his opinion from somewhere as i do not for minute believe he has done his due diligence and explored several avenues of thought and made a considered judgement of his own.

I think back to when i was 10 years old (not long ago ) and my decision making consisted of what did i want for breakfast....cereal or toast, or maybe both if hungry, which jacket to wear to school, and what am i going to do after school before tea later that evening.

Sorry i hope this makes sense and i would applaud this individual for his moral standpoint had he been older and been able to make this judgement himself, he's just too young to understand the world around him and the images he probably does see are those fed to him by the powers that be.

anyways good thread as we dont have this issue in the UK, although i believe they still make the kids say the lords prayer at most schools as they did when i was at school.

Originally posted by NOHnonsense
I think back to when i was 10 years old (not long ago

) and my decision making consisted of what did i want for breakfast....cereal or toast, or maybe both if hungry, which jacket to wear to school, and what am i going to do after school before tea later that evening.

Hahahaha , I have to agree with you on that post.



As for Subjective Truth, I can understand what you are trying to say. He definitely is way too young to have such an established opinion. Like NOHnonsense said like most 10 year olds, my decision was a whole bunch of silly things. Many people obviously blame the mother for having such feelings towards gay rights. I think it depends how involved the kid got into the activism with the mother to be able to say he was brainwashed. If the kid was always participating with the mom then I would say yes. If the kid was just exposed to these things when the mother left or came home and she talked about it then I would say no.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by fordrew]

reply to post by Subjective Truth


yes. if he had a valid argument for his stance, i would be fully supporting him.

this has zero to do with my view point on gay marriage. we (as a country) are denying a certain group to not have the same rights as the rest of the country.

what if he had said he wouldn't stand for the pledge because of that interracial couple in louisianna i think it was, that the judge wouldn't marry? would your stance be the same?

and unless you have proof that he is being used for some "gay agenda" you should stop saying that. yes, i have no proof that he isn't being used for one, but that doesn't mean he is.

sometimes children are smart way beyond their days.

When I was 10, which was nine years ago...I remember people not standing up to say the Pledge simply because they didn't feel like standing up.

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by Seiko

 

. . . .
No I am not saying he should be beaten into submission but that schools went to hell when they stopped being able to discipline kids with corporal punishment. I received more than a few first class ass whoopins in school and it did me some good.
. . .

I'm sorry, but after reading many of your posts, I tend to the opinion that your "first class ass whoopins" have done you more harm than you realise.

You seem to have a quite unreasonable urge to see ten year old children beaten (and tazed) unnecessarily.

reply to post by HotSauce
The ruling that nobody could be forced to say the Pledge was decided by the Supreme Court during the Second World War. The Supreme Court has also determined that while children in school do not have all the constitutional freedoms and protections of an adult, neither do they ". . . leave them all at the schoolhouse door." This child is exercising his Constitutionally protected right not to have to say the Pledge of Allegiance. He is, by all accounts, being polite about it. Yet you want his freedoms abridged because you don't happen to like what he is protesting and want to require him to follow the teacher's directions. Question for you - would you be so pro following the teacher if the teacher were telling students they had to do something you personally disagreed with - whatever that might be? . . . . Yeah, I thought not.

I also remember, when I was 10, I was allowed to sit and not say the pledge. Some teachers made me stand, and some also made me put my hand over my heart, but I could remain silent and think whatever I wanted.

Which was usually "I don't pledge my allegiance to anything."

HERE is a perfect example why it's in your child's best interest to "obey authority."

Give me a break.

The coyote tells two chickens to cross the road. The first chicken listens to the coyote who's bigger and gets ran over.

The second chicken happens to be a free thinker, and says no and lives for another day.

Which chicken would you have been?

Durr

(fixed image)

[edit on 18-11-2009 by Scarcer]

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by Polynomial C
That kid shouldn't be able to disobey his teacher. It is about respect and discipline. If he wants to protest, he is free to run around his front yard burning the American flag when he gets home.

He should freely and willingly disobey anyone who tries to force him to go against his rights, even if just on principle. This is America, you don't tell people what to pledge allegiance to. Now, yes, before people start saying "If he doesn't like America, he can get out", regardless, it is still a right we all have, and that is what this issue is about. If everyone was forced to pledge allegiance to the flag, it wouldn't be so grand anymore. What especially got to me was that this teacher and the principal felt it was within their duty to attempt to force him against his rights.

I used to teach in Junior hight for a few years, I never forced the students to recite the pledge and neither do the one minute prayer (I mean the one minute silence)

When they ask me why, I said, well this my classroom and I give free will to all of you.

Now for those that did their prayer (I mean the one minute silence) and those that did their pledge were given the same respect in my classroom as those that opt it.

Plain and simple, we live in a free nation not a dictatorship. Right?

Originally posted by Scarcer
HERE is a perfect example why it's in your child's best interest to "obey authority."

Give me a break.

The coyote tells two chickens to cross the road. The first chicken listens to the coyote who's bigger and gets ran over.

The second chicken happens to be a free thinker, and says no and lives for another day.

Which chicken would you have been?

Thats pretty damn sad. Child correcting teacher. Teacher was probably beat into submission and was just a sore loser. Teacher took out her anger on the student in the form of a punishment. If I were the parent I would strangle the teacher.

She just did not want to admit she was corrected by a child in front of whole class . It is interesting, because in college it is the other way around. My math professors insist and encourage pointing out their mistakes as soon as they arise.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by fordrew]

[edit on 18-11-2009 by fordrew]

reply to post by HotSauce


My Father, who was a US Marine by the way, during the Vietnam war came to my CATHOLIC school to see a program I was in. The had the audience stand for the Pledge. He refused. It caused quite a commotion but he stood his ground. He thought the US was wrong in the war and he stood up for it. I wasn't embarrassed, I was proud of him and I still am.
Funny I have seen you jump to defend some rightwingers right to free speech but not this boys right to do what he believes in. Frankly I find that typical of ringtwing thinking.