Introducing: Millitary Free America!!

reply to post by crichton13


[SNIP] Your country caused more death and destruction than anyone. The US actually freed countries, you just conquered.

almost all of the problems in the world are your fault not Americas. That is a fact. The income of everyone in the world has grown because of America and free trade agreements. Your country enslaved people. your country made up borders. America has been trying to clean up the mess the Euros created for years.

We created the largest economy, and have the best schools in the world. Good thing America left your oppressive government. It was the best thing we did.

you ceased being relevant in the world.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by eikmun]

Mod Edit: Removed insult.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Gemwolf]

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by FortAnthem

 

that is exactly the point. the foreign policy is dictated by the leaders. the leaders are the ones who declare war and send our young men and women over to fight. They are where the anger should be pointed. It is so far from rocket science it's not funny.

I think this is where all the anger you see is being misguided at our military. People are so feed up and frustrated with our political structure and those douche bags who hold office they are spilling over towards the military. It's pretty clear. It's pretty clear.

Originally posted by network dude
after attempting to discuss points in the thread about how Those who have served were not heroes, and not being able to communicate due to low quantities of intelligence, I decided to open up this topic.

There are apparently quite a few extremely ignorant little kids who think that Our military is made up of evil people. They are condemning the soldiers in an effort to appear intelligent with their peers.

If there was no military in the United States, there would be no wars, there would be no hunger, there would be no problems...... for you. You would be dead.

Good thread s&f for you. The ignorance of my fellow young people never fails to astonish me, whats sad is they actually believe the stuff with all of their heart. They seem to believe that if we threw down our weapons that everyone else's hearts would swell, and they would throw down their weapons too, then we could all wear tie dye and sing kumbaya.

Some small country, probably like Columbia or Venezuela would stroll in here and kill you and take your stuff.

Not sure why ATSers flagged this post or granted you stars, because in my opinion, you have no idea of what you are talking about and have created a giant hypothetical into an absolute zero.

And before you start tossing around the country Colombia(as if you have any knowledge of it or Venezuela), make sure you know how to spell it correctly.

In final note, don't you know that eveything is a conspiracy and that the reason why Hugo Chavez appears evil to YOU is because Main Stream Media has painted this picture? You, sir, need to get outside your nice suburban home and visit a third world country ... then come home and thank the elitests of this country for all their stealing, raping and pillaging. Because you are right, if it wasn't for them, you would be dead!

[edit on 12-11-2009 by Quazze]

All jobs are needed in this country in order for it to run, everything is connected. So to raise one job as better than another is very near sighted. It's also wrong to raise soldiers, nurses, ect. as being heroes and put them on a pedestal, there's nothing wrong with them but they make decisions based solely on self interest just like every other human being on this Earth. Tired about this crap of "I wanted to be a solider cuz I love my country". Good for you, not. If you love this country, be some money hungry thief on Wall Street, paint flags for a living, work at Burger King, who cares. You can be any profession and do it because you "love the country" or you want to protect it, is shooting people the only way some people think they can protect a country? "Protecting the country" isn't limited to the profession of soldier...

But again, all comes down to self interest and you want some special reward for acting in your egoistic self interest? All people choose jobs based on self interest.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by ghaleon12]

I'm a Libertarian, I guess, you could call me. I don't play the Right/Left paradigm show.
I believe every country needs a military and wars are a part of this life experience. I do not appreciate the spin that because I oppose wars based on FALSE premises and lies, that I am somehow against a military.

If I am against the current mindset of soldiers at present day, it does NOT negate my respect for those that actually DEFENDED our country from attacks. But don't compare Iraq or Afghanistan or even Vietnam to anything near as noble or altruistic as the former wars and vets that served in them.

You military men and women CHOSE your path because:

1) Family tradition taught you it was the thing to do.

2) You were poor, uneducated, aimless in life without a skill or trade and felt you needed to be "somebody" so you enlisted.

3) You felt a need for some payback after 9/11(which was a hoax, but who's counting)

4) You enjoy being part of a group, doing a fun job, and seeing the world.

5) The rare chance that you actually like the idea of shooting things and blowing stuff up. Basically the sociopaths of our society.

6) You felt it was a good thing to "defend" your country, only this country hasn't been defended for over 60 years.

Now, for any of the reasons above that you joined, you made a career choice. Why is your career choice special? Why don't we have a "Nurse Day" or "Paramedic Day" or "Scientist Day"? What makes a soldier more important that I should innately have feelings of respect?

It isn't required of me by some declaration. It doesn't say so on my Birth Certificate, so who made this unwritten rule?

And if I feel that a war(s) is illegal and for profit or based on lies, why should I support you as a facilitator of said war? Because you were just "Doing a job"?
But you chose the job knowing full well killing and maiming would be involved?
Wars wouldn't be possible if people didn't show up. Am I supposed to excuse you because you happen to be a pawn, knowing you WILLINGLY made yourself a pawn?

Am I supposed to excuse people who fight Pitbulls because they needed to pay their bills, drug dealers because they were just feeding their kids? I could go on with the analogies forever.

And what about the complaints I keep seeing of the stuff you saw. The blood, the death, the chaos, and how you suffered for it? You made a conscious choice to do so. Why should I feel sympathy? If a prostitute contracts Herpes, do I say,"Wow that's totally unfair to you, that shouldn't happen, I'm so sorry for your troubles"?

I won't feel bad for you, especially when the suffering of other people is figured in the equation. And especially when the bad things you experienced most likely involved you being in a place you shouldn't have been.

You always have the option of taking jail time over serving. There are many that deserted over these issues. You have options of not fighting, but you CHOOSE not to. Why should I respect you? I respect them for doing the right thing. I don't feel you've done the right thing. But of course we all have a different view on what "the right thing" is.

reply to post by Quazze


Maybe he thought the Space Shuttle was going to resurrect with the ALLSPARK and attack us like Megatron?

The main reason for war throughout all of human history is fear. Human leaders have frightened their populations and pointed them as a weapon against their brothers and sisters. Violence only begets more violence. If humanity is ever to see the extinction of war people will have to grow up and refuse to be frightened into hurting others.

Ghandi proved you don't need to throw a stone to liberate a people. Violence is wrong. ALWAYS. Generations of humans have been stuck in the juvenile belief they need to kill others to protect themselves. This attitude is held mutually which perpetuates never ending war. Until people decide they will not hurt anyone else no matter what there will be war forever. Everyone is scared. It is the human condition. However, using this as an excuse for violence is inexcusable.

Educating people about this perpetual ignorance is the only way. Those in power are using all of their resources to convince you otherwise. They are in power for a reason. I hope I can influence just one of you to be a pacifist. Even if you take abuse, hold strong, because if you are in the right and you keep on standing your ground non-violently, you cannot be denied. This is a much more courageous stance than joining a groupthink terror organization (military). The real cowards are in uniforms.

reply to post by Prove_It_NOW


Look, no one disagrees with you. However the argument is about the way police/military act for corporate America rather then civilians. If a higher ranking soldier told you that the crowd of protesters are your enemy, the soldiers tune in like a radio. They are trained by guys taking orders from people who are funded by corporations.

If a private refuses, he is thrown in jail and the next soldier will take his place. In the end, if it comes down to it, I believe the military would not hesitate to turn on civilians. On top of all of that, the government would most likely hire mercenaries, and bring troops from other nations to deal with civilians.

People blame soldiers for orders given by their superiors. If anything, our governments should be held accountable for any action a soldier and their superior does. In the business world this is called vicarious liability, where the employer is held responsible for any actions their employee does while on duty. And yes, America is a business.

Not only could the United States work without a military, but the entire world could as well. It seems that many guys underestimate the "people" in this country, much the same way as the government does.

You act as if soldiers are some form of higher being. As if they do something that no other person could do. You are wrong. Soldiers are just people like us, just with advance training and forced contracts. The difference between us normal people and soldiers is simple: soldiers follow the orders of the government, regardless of how ethical or necessary it is. We follow the orders of the heart, morals and ethics.

Do you honestly thing that is some country came and invaded with their military that they would stand a chance? It is because of the second amendment that other countries fear the United States in the first place. Any type of invasion on our soil would lead to the same outcome as the Revolutionary War.



The military today is just an extended arm of the executive government. Collectively, they are the driving force behind the future we face and it isn't good.

reply to post by Equinox99


I agree, however, I feel that the troops themselves (many) allow the culture to exist by not standing up to the politicians, and ENDORSING the war mentality. We need the soldiers to stop this, and only they can, IMO.

Because one day soon it might be Iran we venture into next, what then? With our economy on the brink and state budgets collapsing, I have a very good reason for my anger at the "military culture" right now who are calling for me to respect them at a time when I see them as welfare recipients sucking on the tit of government ON MY DIME, and then telling me to like it.

Screw that man, I'm not a doormat.




[edit on 12-11-2009 by Prove_It_NOW]

reply to post by gwydionblack


You are absolutely right. There is 0 reason for The Empire (USA) to have a military. The US military is an toy for genocidal lunatics in charge of the government. most peopl are joining the military because of the economy or because they are lost souls. neither of these motivations are worth killing someone for. the us military is completely unneccessary and is part of an evil empire.
i reiterate:
"If you are in the right and you keep on standing your ground non-violently, you cannot be denied. This is a much more courageous stance than joining a groupthink terror organization (military). The real cowards are in uniforms."
Pacifism is the only way humanity can continue to exist. otherwise sooner or later we will destroy ourselves and for what? because someone told us our brothers and sisters are evil? its not worth it. thats why im a pacifist and i only try to help people and never try to harm people. were all 99.9999% the same genetically. dont harm your brothers and sisters.

Originally posted by Prove_It_NOW
I'm a Libertarian, I guess, you could call me. I don't play the Right/Left paradigm show.

If I am against the current mindset of soldiers at present day, it does NOT negate my respect for those that actually DEFENDED our country from attacks. But don't compare Iraq or Afghanistan or even Vietnam to anything near as noble or altruistic as the former wars and vets that served in them.

Sanctimonious BS.

You military men and women CHOSE your path because:

It gives every Veteran the right to morally, ethically and legally Bitch, Moan and Complain about how this country is ran.

Now, for any of the reasons above that you joined, you made a career choice. Why is your career choice special? Why don't we have a "Nurse Day" or "Paramedic Day" or "Scientist Day"? What makes a soldier more important that I should innately have feelings of respect?

More pious crap...

I don't know of any Vet that goes around asking for anything special.

It isn't required of me by some declaration. It doesn't say so on my Birth Certificate, so who made this unwritten rule?

Who honestly cares.

And if I feel that a war(s) is illegal and for profit or based on lies

That's your opinion. You know what they say about Opinions and what they smell like

Wars wouldn't be possible if people didn't show up.

I was once as naive as you.

Am I supposed to excuse people who fight Pitbulls because they needed to pay their bills, drug dealers because they were just feeding their kids? I could go on with the analogies forever.

Which none of them really matter and are irrelevant.

And what about the complaints I keep seeing of the stuff you saw. The blood, the death, the chaos, and how you suffered for it?

Who has asked for sympathy? Nobody on this thread.

Why should I feel sympathy? If a prostitute contracts Herpes

Your Sex life is none of our business.

I won't feel bad for you,

Good. Nobody is asking for you to.

Why should I respect you?

Again nobody is asking you to.

Originally posted by eikmun

We created the largest economy, and have the best schools in the world. Good thing America left your oppressive government. It was the best thing we did.

\

I agree with almost everything you said, but we do not have the best schools in the world, not by a long shot, I wish we did, but we don't.

reply to post by darkwing81


And you are important to me because?????

Your opinions matter of me because?????

look, soldiers, there would be no war if everyone took a stand and said im not going to hurt my fellow humans. sounds simple but it takes a lot of courage. it is cowardly to submit to your leaders and hurt others with a uniform on. it is bold and brave to declare your absolute determination to not hurt anyone no matter what. this is what the establishment is most afraid of. it destroys all of their power. stand up for your fellow humans and stop making excuses to do harm.

It gives every Veteran the right to morally, ethically and legally Bitch, Moan and Complain about how this country is ran.

Then complain about how it was ran, and not the "horrors' of your job. Don't cry.

I don't know of any Vet that goes around asking for anything special.

Oh, like "defending my freedoms" lol. Iraqi Oil Guard #47582 and Poppy Field Guard #4837 always require we recognize their 'service' get with it.

Who honestly cares.

I do that's why I wrote it

That's your opinion. You know what they say about Opinions and what they smell like

And that's your opinion. You know what they say about morons who claim other's opinions are void, right before giving their opinion

I was once as naive as you.

Sanctimonious BS

Which none of them really matter and are irrelevant.

Comparable analogy...read a book sometime

Who has asked for sympathy? Nobody on this thread.

[/quote

Because life exists only on this thread

Good. Nobody is asking for you to.

Yes after I hear three days of crying and whining from soldiers about how they have it rough....good observation

Why should I respect you?

Again nobody is asking you to.

Again, after three days of whining about their career paths...

Nice use of smileys too...it makes things that much more believable.



[edit on 12-11-2009 by Prove_It_NOW]

Military free America? No way. I'm not against America (or any other nation for that matter) going to war against another country or group - as long as the reasons are idealistic and based upon solid intelligence and reasoning.

Which currently, they are not.

Iraq was invaded not defended against. Same thing with Afghanistan (Saudi Arabia should have been at the top of the list based upon the idea that fourteen of the nineteen 9/11 highjackers were from Saudi Arabia).

And Vietnam brought the U.S. into its war based upon an admitted false attack named the Gulf of Tonkin incident.

Sorry OP. No points scored for this one.

America is the light of the world - military personnel included. But the light has been cloaked over.

reply to post by Prove_It_NOW


I am a Soldier, and let me tell ya, I'm awfully saddened by what I'm seeing in this thread.

Your anger is misguided. You should be angry at yourself for not standing up to the politicians. It is not the job of the military to police the civilian politicians, who are freely and willfully elected by the American people. In fact, we check our political views at the door once we put on the uniform. It is YOUR job to ensure the politicians are acting on YOUR behalf. The people YOU voted for in Congress authorized the use of force in Iraq and Afghanistan, on YOUR behalf. Once that happened, the argument that the wars are unconstitutional went out the window. YOU allowed it to happen so please don't blame us, because no soldier has a leg to stand on if they say the wars are unconstitutional. That's why those who try and not fight end up in jail.

YOU are responsible for the death. YOU are responsible for the mayhem. YOU failed to pressure your fellow Americans enough to get off their lazy asses and say they don't want these wars.

As an aside, I'm tired of all these damn hypothetical situations about soldiers kicking down American's doors and policing civilians. Such actions are illegal, and because the military legal system is much better than the civilian one, these hypothetical situations will never come to pass (unless YOU let it happen. See a pattern here?).

Originally posted by Doomsday 2029
reply to post by network dude

 

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d1a4190adc0d.jpg[/atsimg]



Would you make the same thread if you were living in this time period? My guess is probably so.

The fact of the matter is the troops need to wake up.

Just like the people in the photo posted above needed to wake up.



The problem is, the military is only designed to fight enemies that are foreign. Our military is not trained to fight enemies that are Domestic, and until they figure this out... They are no different than the people In the photo posted above: Brainwashed.

I guess for some people invading Poland wasn't justified, but invading Afghanistan is.


analogy:
Just because I think elements within the Government are evil doesn't mean that I want complete Anarchy.



[edit on 12-11-2009 by Doomsday 2029]

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Like it or not, if you are an American, you are subject to this. This being the preamble to the constitution. This document actually requires people like me to defend you. Also, I would like to remind you of this.

www.knowledgerush.com...

The man in the link above is quoted in saying:Muslims have 'right
to kill 4 million, 2 million of them children.'

www.wnd.com...

10 years ago, this man would have been all but ignored, called a nut, or at best a psycho path. Now things are much different, and we in the military are called to kill people like him, mindless drones of a version of Islam started by assassins to indoctrinate young men. Having read an English translation on the Quran(sp, the spell checker did not look right so if this is incorrect I am sorry), I can tell you that it expressly forbids the shedding of blood from children, women, and civilians in an armed conflict. Ask any sane Imam and he will tell you that the people who attacked the US in September of 2001 were not followers of Muhammad, and do not reflect the values of Islam as a whole. Oh and the picture above, They put people in death camps because of religion, if we were like that, no follower of Islam would be left in the United States. So you who say that we in the military a evil, or compare us to Hitlers thugs, you should really read a bit more about the events in question.