The REAL Swine Flu Conspiracy

I'd like to know what you're opinions comparative to this discussion to this theory here: www.ken-welch.com...

Sorry to ask so many questions here

Eco I agree that what what you say is feasible.
IMO it could work like this.
Set off the swine flu
WHO changes its definitions, a pandemic is declared and the rumour mills set in motion
Tptb are accused of fear mongering in order to get people to take the 'killer' vaccine
It could become 'mandatory', so that adds fuel to the fear mongering.

People on sites like this who seem to be toeing the official line are often accused of being government plants. Well it can work the other way too - though that probably isn't necessary given the high levels of paranoia.

Meanwhile either the true scale and lethality are being hid OR there are plans to increase the kill rate somehow
Result - the 'conspiracy sheeple' as opposed to the 'mainstream sheeple' have the highest death rates. As do developing countries due to local conditions. Cuts down on two potential problems!

There are many other possibilities of course, one being that it is just a money making exercise. After all there do seem to be some conflicts of interest amongst the decision makers.

Another possibility is that there is in fact, no conspiracy at all, not to depopulate the world, anyway. I keep thinking, this is all a very convoluted way of population control. After all, why not just release a truly deadly disease? This would be relatively easy and would involve less people in the know. And if it is proven to have been deliberate, terrorism would of course be blamed.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by unicorn1]

[edit on 12-11-2009 by unicorn1]

[edit on 12-11-2009 by unicorn1]

Actually to the OP I agree with what you are saying as a plan would be a plan of genius but I also want to add that the other main conspiracy way is actually much more possible than you think. Read information written by Judith Miller, Stephen Engelberg, and William Broad. They have a book called Germs: Biological Weapons and America's War. There are actually less than 200 total scientists in the world that do anything near this science and many of them are busy doing other research. In the bigger picture that doesn't leave too many to pay-off, intimidate, threaten, or "suicide". Just more food for thought.....

The conspiracy is simple - use squalene - which a lot of people might not like, but it can be argued it is a valid adjuvant.

Then make sure you release a hemorrhagic virus - then everyone who had the vaccine gets attacked by their own immune system - which has been hyped up 10 times over, and they die.

You're argument fails because of the huge media push, and also the forced vaccinations in Ukraine. They WANT people to have the vaccine - they are trying to get a high kill rate on people they don't want.

You are trying to say that they DONT want people to get the vaccine - however, it seems strangely contradictory to apply martial law and force vaccinations when you dont want people to get them doesn't it?

The mass media has hyped the first wave of the flu - there is mass orders of vaccines - to say they don't want people to have the vaccines is .. moronic .. I can't apply a more euphemistic adjective.

Look at the facts, and work from what is known - there is no need for conjecture where evidence is plentiful and verifiable from many sources.

Originally posted by Amagnon
The conspiracy is simple - use squalene - which a lot of people might not like, but it can be argued it is a valid adjuvant.

Then make sure you release a hemorrhagic virus - then everyone who had the vaccine gets attacked by their own immune system - which has been hyped up 10 times over, and they die.

You're argument fails because of the huge media push, and also the forced vaccinations in Ukraine. They WANT people to have the vaccine - they are trying to get a high kill rate on people they don't want.

You are trying to say that they DONT want people to get the vaccine - however, it seems strangely contradictory to apply martial law and force vaccinations when you dont want people to get them doesn't it?

The mass media has hyped the first wave of the flu - there is mass orders of vaccines - to say they don't want people to have the vaccines is .. moronic .. I can't apply a more euphemistic adjective.

Look at the facts, and work from what is known - there is no need for conjecture where evidence is plentiful and verifiable from many sources.

I believe you jumped the gun here a little bit. Mostly what they have been arguing about here is what's in the vaccines and the paper trails.

If adjuvants like use squalene are proven to be in the very injections people are getting in line, then I'll believe the original conspiracy is true. But there are a lot of mixed messages wither or not it is in the current swine vaccines.

If it's a proven fact that squalene isn't in these adjuvants, then I'll have to give it more thought. Both arguments (the vaccine is bad, or it might be a double conspiracy) both have plausible cases, the matter is making enough sense of this to figure out which is more likely true.

Till then, I'll go without the vaccine, but I'll be stocking up on Turmeric, Fish oil, thieves oil and Gelsemium to be on the safe side and educate myself on how to avoid Cytokine Storms incase the big pandemic hits.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by Scarcer]

None of the US vaccines have squalene in them at this time. Check the product inserts for them yourself.

They can add them later if needed to make enough but it's hardly a conspiracy if the first 30 million doses all didn't have it.

The media is NOT pushing this, they didn't report on Ukraine until people started calling them directly and even then it took a few days. Most of the real news about the pandemic hasn't been reported in mainstream news except here and there.

Everyone keeps skipping the one big problem with the theory - how are they keeping all those scientists quiet?

If there was anything "bad" in the vaccines (other than mercury and squalene which isn't even there yet) all the state and federal agencies who perform random testing would be saying so. There's no way each and every one of them is paid off.

Let's go along and say they are - do you know how many grad students are sequencing samples for research purposes? Thousands. We can't even get one of them to speak up? The same thing goes for the virus, hell I know 3 micro biologists folding the sequences at home - can't we even get one of these people to speak up?

There's one vaccine currently made with squalene which just got approval to be sold in the US and it isn't on the shelf yet. In Europe the only one currently containing squalene is only given to elderly patients and has been around for years.

I'm not saying squalene is good, I won't go near it ever again for any reason but not only has it not been used, the public has spoken out so strongly against it I doubt it will be any time soon.

Every time I dig around I find the popular conspiracy crowd has gotten something wrong. Every time. I set a higher standard, I need proof and in the absence of proof I need to be convinced the allegations are possible.

In this case it isn't possible. Logistically it requires such a huge amount of people to be complicit it cannot function.

My alternate theory on the other hand, requires very few people. Less than a dozen high level people could pull off the entire thing without most of the main players even knowing.

They control the CDC and WHO and can set policy.
They don't even have to involve the drug companies, researchers, etc.
All they need are a few disinfo artists to spread the BS and make it look good.

Either I'm right or there is no conspiracy at all. The popular theory is simply impossible.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by ecoparity]

Gotta see this clip, Bermas reads an Article from 1989, Check it out !!
In 1989 article, there is talk about an SwineFlu vaccine to get the Chip into the subjects...

Jason continues to expose how the Copenhagen Treaty is a direct path to world government and how it will completely subjugate the globe under a suffocating system of carbon trading run by the very people fearmongering about global warming.

[edit on 12/11/2009 by ChemBreather]

I think there is a very important question to be answered. What would have happened if the 72kg of vaccine that was found (in tjeck rep and also Canada) lethal had reached the streets?
Baxter has yet not given any explanation to what caused the "mistake" to take place.
How would this world look like if 72kg of bird flue/swine flue "infected" vaccines were giv en to the European and Canadian population?

I tell you; the vaccines we are getting now are "clean" this was not what was planned from the beginning. We WOULD have a real pandemic with 60%++ deadly average...like 40-50% of the population dead, the fema camps, the trains, the coffins all would have made sence!

I really think that is the most important question to look at. Right now in Sweden everyone is taking the vaccine, (not me) a few issues but not so serious. The truth is it does not make any sence to take the shot..the "flue" is not dangerous, its just a flu more or less.

www.naturalnews.com...
www.lifegen.de...


"The company that released contaminated flu virus material from a plant in Austria confirmed Friday that the experimental product contained live H5N1 avian flu viruses.

And an official of the World Health Organization’s European operation said the body is closely monitoring the investigation into the events that took place at Baxter International’s research facility in Orth-Donau, Austria.

“At this juncture we are confident in saying that public health and occupational risk is minimal at present,” medical officer Roberta Andraghetti said from Copenhagen, Denmark.

“But what remains unanswered are the circumstances surrounding the incident in the Baxter facility in Orth-Donau.” The contaminated product, a mix of H3N2 seasonal flu viruses and unlabelled H5N1 viruses, was supplied to an Austrian research company. The Austrian firm, Avir Green Hills Biotechnology, then sent portions of it to sub-contractors in the Czech Republic, Slovenia and Germany.

The contamination incident, which is being investigated by the four European countries, came to light when the subcontractor in the Czech Republic inoculated ferrets with the product and they died. Ferrets shouldn’t die from exposure to human H3N2 flu viruses.

Public health authorities concerned about what has been described as a “serious error” on Baxter’s part have assumed the death of the ferrets meant the H5N1 virus in the product was live. But the company, Baxter International Inc., has been parsimonious about the amount of information it has released about the event.

On Friday, the company’s director of global bioscience communications confirmed what scientists have suspected. “It was live,” Christopher Bona said in an email.

The contaminated product, which Baxter calls “experimental virus material,” was made at the Orth-Donau research facility. Baxter makes its flu vaccine — including a human H5N1 vaccine for which a licence is expected shortly — at a facility in the Czech Republic.

People familiar with biosecurity rules are dismayed by evidence that human H3N2 and avian H5N1 viruses somehow co-mingled in the Orth-Donau facility. That is a dangerous practice that should not be allowed to happen, a number of experts insisted. Accidental release of a mixture of live H5N1 and H3N2 viruses could have resulted in dire consequences.

While H5N1 doesn’t easily infect people, H3N2 viruses do. If someone exposed to a mixture of the two had been simultaneously infected with both strains, he or she could have served as an incubator for a hybrid virus able to transmit easily to and among people. That mixing process, called reassortment, is one of two ways pandemic viruses are created. There is no suggestion that happened because of this accident, however. “We have no evidence of any reassortment, that any reassortment may have occurred,” said Andraghetti.

“And we have no evidence of any increased transmissibility of the viruses that were involved in the experiment with the ferrets in the Czech Republic.”

Baxter hasn’t shed much light — at least not publicly — on how the accident happened. Earlier this week Bona called the mistake the result of a combination of “just the process itself, (and) technical and human error in this procedure.” He said he couldn’t reveal more information because it would give away proprietary information about Baxter’s production process.

Andraghetti said Friday the four investigating governments are co-operating closely with the WHO and the European Centre for Disease Control in Stockholm, Sweden.

“We are in very close contact with Austrian authorities to understand what the circumstances of the incident in their laboratory were,” she said.

“And the reason for us wishing to know what has happened is to prevent similar events in the future and to share lessons that can be learned from this event with others to prevent similar events. … This is very important.”

•Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, NaturalNews Editor writes in Vaccines as Biological Weapons? Live Avian Flu Virus Placed in Baxter Vaccine Materials Sent to 18 Countries :

Deerfield, Illinois-based pharmaceutical company Baxter International Inc. has just been caught shipping live avian flu viruses mixed with vaccine material to medical distributors in 18 countries. The “mistake” (if you can call it that, see below…) was discovered by the National Microbiology Laboratory in Canada. The World Health Organization was alerted and panic spread throughout the vaccine community as health experts asked the obvious question: How could this have happened?
……..
Or, put another way, Baxter is acting a whole lot like a biological terrorism organization these days, sending deadly viral samples around the world. If you mail an envelope full of anthrax to your Senator, you get arrested as a terrorist. So why is Baxter — which mailed samples of a far more deadly viral strain to labs around the world — getting away with saying, essentially, “Oops?”But there’s a bigger question in all this: How could this company have accidentally mixed LIVE avian flu viruses (both H5N1 and H3N2, the human form) in this vaccine material?
..............
socioecohistory.wordpress.com...





[edit on 12-11-2009 by gusan]

reply to post by gusan


The "vaccine" in the Baxter incident was not a production "vaccine" destined for use in people. It was a one-off, hand made, test vaccine being used as part of the construction of a new manufacturing process.

There are too many safeguards in place for that to happen with production vaccines. Bad event? Yes, definitely but people are being allowed to believe it has more significance than it actually does.

The testing samples were only sent to 4 labs, not 18. 4 too many but the exaggeration is just part of BS.

You can find the real, original media sources as well as an EU government presentation on the incident right here on ATS. The blogs are all passing along the same misinformation.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by ecoparity]

Here's an example of why posting local media sources from Ukraine and the surrounding region can be "dangerous". There are so many conflicting reports coming out that its possible to find one to support any position, even two opposite ones if you want:

Ukrainians do not die from pneumonia, and from viral disstressindroma - expert Ноябрь 12 2009 15:41 November 12, 2009 15:41

Все жертвы вируса на Буковине (22 человека в возрасте от 20 до 40 лет) умерли не от двусторонней пневмонии, как это считалось ранее, а в результате вирусного дисстрессиндрома, то есть тотального поражения легких: сначала наступает сердечно-легочная недостаточность, а затем развивается кардиогенный шок, который вызывает остановку сердца и смерть.

All victims of the virus in Bukovina (22 persons aged 20 to 40 years) died not from bilateral pneumonia, as previously thought, but as a result of viral disstressindroma, ie total lung injury: first comes the cardio-pulmonary insufficiency, and then developed cardiogenic shock, which causes cardiac arrest and death.

Об этом вчера, 11 ноября, газете «Доба» сообщил начальник бюро Черновицкой областной судмедэкспертизы, доктор наук, профессор Виктор Бачинский.

On this Monday, 11 November, the newspaper "Doba" said Chief of the Chernivtsi regional forensic bureau, PhD, Professor Victor Bachinsky.

«Во время двусторонней пневмонии отслеживается определенная морфологическая картина.

"During the bilateral pneumonia monitor specific morphological picture.

Относительно данных смертей, то здесь такой морфологической картины нет.

Regarding these deaths, there is no such morphological picture.

Вирус, который вызывает смерть, очень агрессивен, он даже не поражает трахею, а сразу попадает в легкие и вызывает сильный их отек и сплошные кровоизлияния.

The virus, which causes death, is very aggressive, he did not strike the trachea, and immediately gets into the lungs and causes strong swelling and continuous hemorrhage.

Вызывают такое состояние смешанные типы парагриппа и гриппа А/Н1N1.

Causes such a state of mixed types of parainfluenza and influenza A/N1N1. This is a very toxic strain, which has not yet been worked out by the Ministry of Health method of treatment ", - said Victor Bachinsky.

По его словам, нужно срочно менять стандарты лечения, ведь те, которые применялись до сих пор, результатов не дали – в реанимации не удалось спасти всех людей, пораженных этим вирусом.

According to him, an urgent need to change the treatment standards, because those used so far, the results have not given - in intensive care unable to save all people infected with the virus.

Не оправдались в этой ситуации и аппараты искусственной вентиляции легких – смертность людей наступала в 100%.

Not justified in this situation and ALV apparatus - the death rate of people attacked in 100%.

Ввиду этого, группа профессоров Черновицкого медуниверситета обратилась в Министерство здравоохранения и СНБО с требованием пересмотреть стандарты лечения больных на Буковине.

In view of this, a group of professors of Chernivtsi Medical University appealed to the Ministry of Health and NSDC to demand to review the standards of treatment of patients in Bukovina.

Ученые-морфологи отправили в Киев протоколы, результаты исследований и взятые у тяжело больных и умерших от вируса лиц анализы.

Scientists-morphological sent to Kiev reports, studies and taken from seriously ill and died from the virus of tests.

Виктор Бачинский, входящий в группу инициаторов обращения, отмечает, что вирус является чрезвычайно токсичным, он способен проникать не только через органы дыхания, но и через глазную оболочку.

Victor Bachinsky, part of the initiators of the treatment group, notes that the virus is extremely toxic, it is able to penetrate not only through inhalation but also through the eye membrane.

Поэтому черновицкие ученые рекомендуют ни в коем случае не отказываться от масок и на период эпидемии даже носить защитные очки.

Therefore Chernovtsy scientists recommend in any case not to give up the masks and the period of the epidemic even wearing goggles.

Важным условием для недопущения ухудшения ситуации является также соблюдение карантинного режима.

An important condition to prevent deterioration of the situation is also the observance of quarantine regime.

Source

[edit on 12-11-2009 by ecoparity]

reply to post by ecoparity


Yes, sure they can say whatever they like now. What do you think they would say when they got caught?!
Facts; Baxter did mix the bird flue, human flue and swine flu in their lab. This is not even open for discussion, they admit this is the case.
Fact: they sent the material to several laboratories around the world.

What about Jane Burgemeister? Is she an uneducated ignorant fanatic woman?
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by morbidixon
The REAL Swine Flu Conspiracy

Oh yeah! (had to join ATS just for this)

That's exactly what I was thinking to post here,
but you did it just before me

I've been looking mainly the Ukraine situation and Conspiracy Theories around that.

So. Who would NWO guys want to keep alive...The Sheep of course (who do exacty what they want) and who don't take any notes from us lunatics

So...The main target is conspiracy community...logically thinking.
And anyone who's been around years and watched these theories (and truths),
knows that there are maybe more false conspiracies that have been put out by the NWO people themself and other mainly apocalyptic christian wackos.
So don't belive everything you read.
1 more point: if this was a bioattack..there should be really..i mean really big deathwave by now.

Don't know if this is the truth about this flu case, but it's very good aspect of this situation.

I'm not expert on any medical stuff...just thinking much (i think)

ecoparity. I'm happy you got some brainaction really.
Thought i was onlyone thinking this

This could be looked at in another way as well though. Maybe instead of keeping the "sheep" alive they would target to get rid of the sheep and keep the people who don't just believe everything they are told. This would also make sense as if you only were able to "save" a percentage of the popualtion who would you keep? The people who follow along blindly as to whatever BS they are spoon fed? If it was me that had to save a percentage of the population I would definitely be picking those people who do not believe everything the Fed and MSM tell them as they would IMO be much more intelligent by questioning the PTB.

Just another spin on the conspiracy side.

I have to say 'Good Effort' to the OP, but unfortunately I do not agree. I believe the OP is clutching at straws here.

There are two commonly held phenomenon in any proper conspiracy that the OP has ignored -
1) Knowledge Compartmentalisation
2) Occums' Razor

Any organisation which has a good standard of information compartmentalisation will be able to pull off activities deemed controversial, without too much difficulty. The left hand will most definitely not know what the right hand is doing - they wont know the right hand even exists or that it could exist. (If you get my meaning?)

Secondly, in line with Occums' Razor, given a choice between mass genocide, and making an enormous quantity of money - which one would the 'elites' do? I would put my chips on the money every time. There's no point in being powerful if you have noone to be powerful over. Not to mention it's the simplest explanation - as it's the usual suspect and far more achievable.

The Para.

So let me add to the real conspiracy:

A thread i made in the past:

Getting the Military & FEMA involved for the Swine Flu is a cover for the next False Flag.

C'mon people, we all know that all this vaccination / Swine Flu hysteria we are seeing in the MAIN STREAM MEDIA is a cover for something bigger.

It's really working to perfection if you ask me, because I see that many of you have been fooled into believing this was all about mandatory vaccinations (thus causing depopulation). FALSE. This is about getting FEMA, the National Guard, CDC, and our military in place to be prepared for the next False Flag.

It's all a disguise. In reality there will be no SWINE FLU QUARANTINES... but there will be Quarantines for another reason. There will be no mandatory vaccinations, however if the false flag attack is a Biological one, then there very well could be all kinds of vaccinations and chipping.

When it's all said and done, TPTB have to get there chess pieces in place for whatever it is they are going to do, and right now they are using Swine Flu as the excuse... I mean for Christ Sake, I even saw one MSM report that they were involving military presence in the event that civilians might go crazy for vaccine and riot, due to low quantities in stock... Now how retarded is that?

For me personally, this is proof that we all have more time... possibly an entire year before they pull off their little stunt. I'm predicting that nothing major will happen in 2009, other than Swine Flu scare tactics to desensitize the public (the real sheep) with the knowledge of quarantines and military presence in the streets. Then once the public has been dumbed down a little bit, TPTB will pull off their little stunt, which I'm guessing will some kind of WMD (multiple WMDs) in a few downtown locations... not nukes, but dirty bombs.

Bottom Line...

Swine Flu is nothing more than a deception in order to get their chess pieces in place for the real game. Let's not forget that they have to fool members within their own agencies also.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

I dont believe this is a depopulation program or anything like that, what I think is that its to boost the economy. This all happened in the middle of a huge recession, Baxter "accidently" sent the virus to many different countries and what a coincidence that they make the vaccine and so profit hugely from pandemics. They want to make masses of money its as simple as that, and think of how many jobs this will provide. Did you know Donald Rumsfeld is a major share holder of baxter?

reply to post by unicorn1


The Swine Flu is hardly lethal..

I have already had it and am still sufferring from its effects some 3 months down the track, but I'm still here!!

The effects do seem to linger for months after the main virus hits, but I was hardly in a state where I needed to go to hospital. And I got through it without any drugs what so ever!

I'm sure if it hits meagain, I'll get through it again.

reply to post by SpaceMonkeys


I think many of us know about Rumsfeld and tamiflu. You might be right in your assessment. Although, in that case, I don't think it's to boost the economy but to fill their pocketbooks. The rest of us won't see dime one.

reply to post by really

Yes I think you're right. They just want as much money for themselves as possible.

I'm starting to see how a few certain people felt back in April. People are just "invested" in believing this to the point of ignoring the one, glaring hole in it. There's no possible way to get all those researchers to keep quiet.

It's like everyone just ignores that part and pretends it doesn't exist.

The only media "hyping" this is the conspiracy news media. Let's look at CNN as I have been daily, along with my local news and the other majors - one small article about the number of dead in the US, nothing about Ukraine.

This is just sad and kind of scary, really. All anyone can do is keep throwing out the same statements about stuff they haven't even checked out for themselves. Freaky.

Jane BurgerBilder (heh) and Moshe are the agents making people ignore reality, either intentional or willing patsies. If the popular conspiracy was even remotely real things would look a lot different than they do. The "hype" people talk about is nothing vs. what it could be. . .

[edit on 12-11-2009 by ecoparity]

reply to post by notreallyalive


In thinking about the H1N1 situation, I can see many sides to the issue. But I do believe if one wants to get some clarity in understanding the whole thing, follow the money. If only a few key labs are contracted to make the vaccine, that may be the only "conspiracy" part to the story.

There are a ton of variables to this story that can make a case for any opinion, but in the long run, I think it might be a matter of cold hard cash. After all, our government gave away our tax dollars to bankers and investment firms, the very ones who created the problems in the first place. The government by example has no problem rewarding our tax dollars to whomever they like, for whatever reason. They have their own agenda, and in the name of public safety, do whatever they please. Where have we heard this before??

Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one. My vote is for plain old greed, and the rewarding of government money to select contractors. This method never goes out of style, no matter who's in office.