Origins of Free Masonry

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I will say this, it’s highly peculiar a world wide organization with members around the globe don’t actually know who founded the organization, when, where or how?

As there is a possible link to Masonry in the 10th Century, long before and speculative Masons came on the scene, I do not think the men of those times may have had any interest in preserving all the details of their guild and struture as it may have been deemed superflous. While the architectural craft that they undertook was not doubt important it was still only a job and may have not warranted such exact detailing of records. This is strictly my opinion and is not in anyway a historical fact.

I think it would be fascinating to actually know the details of the Fraternity's founding but it si so far in the past I think the answers may be lost forever.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
I think it would be fascinating to actually know the details of the Fraternity's founding but it si so far in the past I think the answers may be lost forever.

Maybe not all of it. Etymology with considered context may provide rhetorical proof. As always though, discussion helps.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I will say this, it’s highly peculiar a world wide organization with members around the globe don’t actually know who founded the organization, when, where or how?

As there is a possible link to Masonry in the 10th Century, long before and speculative Masons came on the scene, I do not think the men of those times may have had any interest in preserving all the details of their guild and struture as it may have been deemed superflous. While the architectural craft that they undertook was not doubt important it was still only a job and may have not warranted such exact detailing of records. This is strictly my opinion and is not in anyway a historical fact.

I think it would be fascinating to actually know the details of the Fraternity's founding but it si so far in the past I think the answers may be lost forever.

Actually my friend it looks like you have a very nice statue there of the Fraternity's founder and leader!

Someone had to keep the secrets of technology while the dark ages were imposed by Rome to stamp out the Pagan religions and Christianize the world.

Someone had to ensure the building blocks of a proper Roman Society be spread throughout the world.

It just amazes me that it has all been hidden so well even seemingly from most of the Masons.

Augustus was quite the thinker to be sure!

Originally posted by MemoryShock

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
I think it would be fascinating to actually know the details of the Fraternity's founding but it si so far in the past I think the answers may be lost forever.

Maybe not all of it. Etymology with considered context may provide rhetorical proof. As always though, discussion helps.

I have a funny feeling that in time the entire truth will come out. It usually does sooner or later. One thing is for sure traditions are not started without someone knowing there origins.

Yes they are often altered over the course of time and space for various reasons but information being power, someone retains and passes on the truth purely for the sake of it's power if nothing else.

Someone knows, someone always knows.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Actually my friend it looks like you have a very nice statue there of the Fraternity's founder and leader!

Someone had to keep the secrets of technology while the dark ages were imposed by Rome to stamp out the Pagan religions and Christianize the world.

Someone had to ensure the building blocks of a proper Roman Society be spread throughout the world.

While Augustus Caesar is indeed a very interesting figure from history I think the extent of his knowledge of Geometry and Architecture was to appoint people who acutally knew about these arts to construct his eddifices.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Actually my friend it looks like you have a very nice statue there of the Fraternity's founder and leader!

Someone had to keep the secrets of technology while the dark ages were imposed by Rome to stamp out the Pagan religions and Christianize the world.

Someone had to ensure the building blocks of a proper Roman Society be spread throughout the world.

While Augustus Caesar is indeed a very interesting figure from history I think the extent of his knowledge of Geometry and Architecture was to appoint people who acutally knew about these arts to construct his eddifices.

While it’s entirely possible that Augustus might not have been a hands on builder himself it is clear he understood the concepts behind building an empire that his Uncle Gaius Julius Caesar taught him so well.

Today we know that many Masons are not tradesmen yet simply members of the fraternal order. They themselves have never been builders in that traditional sense either.

While it’s purported that Masons know the origins of how non-builders first were accepted into membership Masons don’t know the date or the place of the fraternities founding by their own public admission.

So it does make it entirely possible that Augustus or Caesar himself founded the fraternity and that they, either or, or both set the precedent of non-builders being admitted into the fraternity as their intent was to build far more than just physical structures, but the very cornerstones and building blocks of a lasting empire that would one day rule the world in it’s entirety.

The Templar Knights who originated as the Poor Knights of Christ, Christened by the Prince Abbot of the Abbey that still sits on top the recessed hill of Seborga which at that time as it still is today is an uninterrupted Sovereign State and Principality of the Roman Republic, and Roman Empire.

It is entirely possible it was in Seborga that the Council of Eight imparted this knowledge handed down from the Roman Emperors to the Knights Templar who the vestiges of appear to have founded the Scottish Rite Freemason Society.

Conversely because Masons are wholly ignorant of the exact origins of their fraternal society it is as impossible by extension to disprove this as it is to prove this.

Rome is, and always has been the top of the pyramid and the all seeing eye, as it permeates every aspect of our laws, culture, architecture and binding principles and it could be argued where the United States is concerned this is in large part due to the powerful and pervasive influence of the Masonic Movement at the time of our founding.

I would love to see what is actually inscribed in the actual Golden Plate buried in the Capitol Building’s Corner Stone. I have a feeling that it says “We pledge and dedicate this structure and land and bequeath it to Rome, Hail Caesar!”

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


You give Rome too much credit. If you're going to stretch it back that far, without evidence, why not ancient Greece? Pythagoras and Euclid are clearly important to Masons today...

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
So it does make it entirely possible that Augustus or Caesar himself founded the fraternity and that they, either or, or both set the precedent of non-builders being admitted into the fraternity as their intent was to build far more than just physical structures, but the very cornerstones and building blocks of a lasting empire that would one day rule the world in it’s entirety.

Anything is possible but I think it highly unlikely. Both Julius and Augustus were very good at taking credit for their actions (and even those that were not their own) and issuing coins and commeratives in their own honor. The lives of the early Caesars can be quite acurately traced by numismatic means and this fact, if true, most likely would have been discovered by now.

Rome is, and always has been the top of the pyramid and the all seeing eye, as it permeates every aspect of our laws, culture, architecture and binding principles and it could be argued where the United States is concerned this is in large part due to the powerful and pervasive influence of the Masonic Movement at the time of our founding.

You are relagating to the back burner the tremendous influence Greek (and to a lesser extant, Egyptian) culture also had at the period of the founding of the United States. The Neo-Classical Revival incoporated aspects of all of these ancient societies and intermingled them in an attempt to associate our own infant nation, and its inherent lack of history, with these older and more revered empires.

I would love to see what is actually inscribed in the actual Golden Plate buried in the Capitol Building’s Corner Stone. I have a feeling that it says “We pledge and dedicate this structure and land and bequeath it to Rome, Hail Caesar!”

I would love to see it as well but I am willing to wager it has nothing to do with Caesar.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

You give Rome too much credit. If you're going to stretch it back that far, without evidence, why not ancient Greece? Pythagoras and Euclid are clearly important to Masons today...

I don't think one can ever give Rome to much credit. Besides they can well afford to pay back the loan Mr. Norton!

While Rome was influenced by many previous and contemporary empires in its day it went on to have a far broader impact that is still evidenced to this day.

Rome in many ways was a greater catalyst for Grecian philosophy and ideals than Greece itself was. Of course most of what Rome begs, borrows or steals they have a tendency to Romanize it by adding elements of their own.

Kind of like the Japanese with American electronics and cars.

It all boils down to organization and logistics and it would seem much of what Masonry is, is about organization and logistics and no empire was better at organization and logistics than Rome.

Anecdotal evidence provided by the Masons themselves in regards to much of their symbolism and even its permissiveness in allowing its members to worship any deity of any faith bespeaks Rome.

But since the Masons through their own admission don't know their precise origins I suppose speculation shall always abound?

Frankly I don’t feel it’s anything to be embarrassed about as one could certainly do far worse when it comes to heritage, legacies and contributions.

I can even appreciate the modesty and secrecy while the process of Romanization continues and the final elements are put in place to unveil a New World Order.

In that endeavor, in that regard the Masons themselves are but a building block in the great scheme of the Roman Universe.

Rome is the Universe so it would be hard for anything including the Masons to not owe it’s origins to it.

When in Rome do as the Romans do is what I say! Hail Caesar!



[edit on 2/12/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Its true Augustus that a panoply of imagery from many sources is woven into Masonic symbols but it is also true that each of those non-Roman elements were in fact conquered by Rome.

Including these conquered people’s icons bespeaks of the vanity of a triumphal procession through Rome’s streets with the conquered leaders, newly enslaved people, and treasures of their land driven before Caesar for his and Rome’s posterity.

That many architectural wonders were found in these lands would have only enhanced Masonic fascination with them. That early Masons would have included elements of all these noteworthy and challenging edifices as a testament to their own skill and to their own posterity is not surprising.

Yet always no matter what from the United States Dollar Bill to the Halls of Government and Power and Finance and Law there lies the Latin, in inscription after inscription. Whether it is around an Egyptian Pyramid or a Grecian Column the inscription always appears not in English, not in Egyptian, not in Grecian tongues but in the Latin tongue.

A long dead tongue of a seemingly and supposedly long dead empire that is compulsory to this day for people in law, medicine, science and horticulture to have at least a cursory understanding of.

One can only speculate as to why, and to why such sayings exist as “Do you speak the Latin, he speaks the Latin”.

Many peoples, many lands, bound more often than not by some element of Rome. Whether it be the Latin Language, or Latin Laws, or the Roman Christian Religion they are all bound together through this. From Iran to England, from Canada to China, from Russia to Argentina some element of Rome exists.

I would never discount Rome’s influence in regards to anything.

I can only hope Augustus that we may cordially agree to disagree in regards to this, since after all we both seemingly share a passion for and admiration of Rome.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I can only hope Augustus that we may cordially agree to disagree in regards to this, since after all we both seemingly share a passion for and admiration of Rome.

I am certain we can although, as you can obviously tell I am a person who takes great interest in all things Roman. As someone of Italian ancestry I tend to shy away from referencing it too often as I feel I have a particular bias towards what Rome has given to the rest of the world as a legacy.

I have spent many hours perusing the copius number of texts I have dedicated to his subject in my home library. As a Romanaphile I would not be adverse in learning that its culture or leaders had some sort of influence in the founding os Masonry. I have however relagated myself to never acutally knowing the origins of the Fraternity I belong to.

I also deeply understand the parallels and correlaries between Roman ideals, history, culture, law, language and literautre and our own here in the United States (Edward Luttwak's The Grand Strategy of the Roman Empire is an excellent text in this regard). Thank you for the interesting and thought-provoking theories.

Interesting video here of Henry C. Clausen, former Sovereign Grand Master of the Scottish Rite (Southern Jurisdiction), where he claims freemasonry to be the legitimate heir to the pagan mysteries of old:





Incidentally, Clausen was also a Congress appointed investigator into the Pearl Harbour attacks of WWII.

Wikipedia: Henry C. Clausen

Bessel.org: Pearl Harbour & Henry C. Clausen's investigation

reply to post by Extant Taxon

Nice find. I need to pick up some of Claussen's writings some time...

Interesting interview here with Peter Levenda on freemasonry and related topics, author of The Secret Temple: Masons, Mysteries, and the Founding of America:

abmp3.com...

The medieval stone masons were the "rock" stars of their time. Speculative Masonry was basically a fanclub.

The rituals were a way to emulate the mindset of a professional stone mason. For example, it takes a lot of discipline and self-confidence to carve a straight line into a piece of stone, much less an elaborate design.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen

Well with the improvements in architecture and construction stone masons started going by the wayside so to keep their numbers they would have to let in speculative masons along with operative ones.

Interesting topic.. I find it peculiar that it is so fixated on the fraternal version of Free Masonry with no mention at all of Co-Masonry.

Back on topic, i find this essay by Thomas Paine to be fairly accurate, by my sources, on the origins of Free Masonry
freemasonry.bcy.ca...