So you still believe the official story?

Originally posted by Badgered1
Follow the money.

Who stood to financially gain from the events of 9/11, the subsequent invasions of Afghnaistan and Iraq etc.?

nyccan.org...

Originally posted by The_Zomar
I feel like spreading truth today and would love an old fashioned debate with real facts.

Go ahead and ask any question you like, or whats keeping you from learning the truth and I'll answer it the best I can!

I'll start with 2 recent questions I saw people asking.

Q: "How could something of such magnitude be kept so secret? Someone would SURELY leak information!"
A: Easily. The hydrogen bomb was conceived in complete secrecy at Las Alamos. Research the Manhattan project. It took over a thousand people and it never leaked. (My number may be wrong, don't quote me. tell me if I'm wrong though so I can fix it)

Yes, but that was during war time and the scientist knew that military rules during war time applied, like Marshal Law and death penalty for high treason. And a military officer with a healthy honor code would not carry out the command to bring down the two towers. S/He would have refused the order as unconstitutional. So, the government cabal would have to eliminate a lot of conscious stricken officers for the plan to work.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
Q: "The government wouldn't kill its own citizens!"
A: Simply research USS Liberty or research Operation Northwoods

I'm not sure about the USS Liberty, but Operation Northwoods seems to be an exercise that was formulated on paper, but was never put into action. If you are US citizen and you feel better believing that your own government slaughtered all those people just to get it's hands on the big oil reserves in IRAQ and to secure the pipeline through Afghanistan and/or the opium trade, be my guest. I choose to believe what mainstream media here in my home country has shown me.
USS Liberty = Israeli friendly fire incident, what about it?

[edit on 6-11-2009 by WalterRatlos]

Oh boy! Magic nano-thermite! Turns things into dust!

Lordy lordy lordy...............

I can't even begin to count the numerous things wrong with that alone statement. Not to mention the thinking behind it as being the reason for the WTC collapses. Its been 8 long years, and the TM is still stuck in the same mud with the same spinning tires. Magic thermite is what brought down the WTCs. Of course, with zero proof of it, and the tons of evidence that completely blow that turd of an idea (cause it aint a theory) out of the water time and again, it amazes me how this garbage is still being brought back, spread and worshiped like its true. Its worse than Scientology.

reply to post by GenRadek


Well, I guess we could revisit an old thread of mine where I asked a question that not too many people wanted to answer.

Might have been too early to ask such a question. Some may find it a very offensive question as well.

Good article here:

Only in America is scientific analysis seen as conspiracy theory and government lies as truth.

www.americanfreepress.net...

We all know 911 was a false flag operation carried out by a hand full of military experts in aviation and demolition all loyal to Dick Cheney and probably only answered to Dick Cheney just like Cheney’s’ assignation hit squad. That is surly one way to keep everyone quiet don’t you think?

I have yet to see in eight years, one shred of scientific or physical evidences with serial numbers to verify anything. All I have seen in eight years from the debunkers and GL is nothing but ridiculing and ignorance, and that is a fact.

These people cannot conceive the real fact that parts of our government and parts of our military would conspirer to kill its own citizens to wage a false flag operation just for their personal gain. The government and the military love you GL because they can count on your loyalty and your patriotism to protect them ( the real terrorists ) from getting caught. You OS supporters who have been on ATS for years defending our treasonous government in the Bush administration and that mean Dick Cheney and the handful of the military are on the WRONG SIDE.

Some who support the OS say you want the truth and that is why you are in here defending the government and military as if these people are NOT capable or intelligent enough to orchestrate anything together. Talk about “blind patriotism!

I have asked many of you who support the OS a simple question many times and none of you will give me an answer to this question, in fact I have been put on ignore by some of you because, you cannot, or will not answer it. The question was:

Why do you believe in the OS, and what undisputable scientific evidences convinced you the OS is one hundred percent true.

I have never seen any debunker answer this question yet. True patriotism is holding a treasonable government accountable not to protect them.

What is true patriotism? When a person who loves his country, knows a terrible wrong has been committed by the power that be, and can confront these people in power with the truth and hold them accountable. Now that is true patriotism.

911 was an inside job and it has been proven and that is a fact. I am not going to answer any question of how do I know 911 was an inside job because most if not all of you OS supporters will ignore, reject, dismiss, ridicule, scoff at all the real evidences, because, some of you cant get over the facts that parts of your government and military could kill anyone of us and lie and cover it up for their own personal gain.









[edit on 6-11-2009 by impressme]

reply to post by dodadoom

For reporting a scientific finding, I was called a �conspiracy theorist.� Only in America is scientific analysis seen as conspiracy theory and government lies as truth.

www.americanfreepress.net...

This is so true. We see how our government spews propaganda on television and it works and they just lap it up.


[edit on 6-11-2009 by impressme]

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Why would the government fake a terrorist attack to invade a s**thole like afghanistan??? For the opium!!!!! FYI the illegal trade in illicit narcotics is the biggest money laundering racket on the planet and is used by every intelligence agency on the planet as a source of cold, hard, and most importantly, untraceable cash. It is the second largest business on the planet, taking a back seat only to the weapons trade. Turkey is the only legitimate producer of opium, and it's produce is used in the production of legitimate pharmaceuticals. Afghanistan, in contrast, has traditionally been the leading producer of the illicit crop, with Cambodia and her neighbors coming in second. (Notice a war pattern here?) The reason for the war on the Taliban, an Islamic Fundy bunch that the CIA labored mightily to get into power during the Carter years, is that the ungrateful bastards went and destroyed most of the illicit opium in the country, thus costing the American intelligence community billions of untraceable dollars.

To me it's like, "what did they really expect? They put Religious Fundy's into power! Did they really tihnk that these wingnuts would let the dope trade stand or allow magnificent Bhuddist statues to inhabit their ultra-reactionary country?" Yes, they did fight off the Russian occupation (y'see, we didn't want them commies controlling all that opium) with all the tenacity of a pit bull on crack. But after that threat was gone it was only to be expected that they would turn their attention to turning back the intellectual clock in Afghanistan to 6 B.C. or whatever century their particular Cave Man take on the Koran originates from. Freakin' DUH!

Since the end of the Korean Conflict all of our major wars have either been fought over controlling dope or fought over controlling oil for the big oil companies. Before the Prohibition Movement the governments of the world dealt openly in narcotics and fought wars to control them. After the movement the governments moved their operations underground, but the objective has always been the same; large sums of untraceable cash to fund operations and initiatives that could never be spun to the public as a worthy or ethical enterprise. Your tax dollars at work!

[edit on 6-11-2009 by godless]

reply to post by impressme


yea, impress me is pretty much on target.

I will say this one thing though. it depends on your perception, on what you think can happen, and what CANT happen. you have to analyze all the possibilities from both sides, and the 911 inside job side holds MORE MERIT than the OS side.

the 911 inside job side has scientific backing. thermate is a GREAT example.

There isn't enough scientific truth on the OS side to to determine its validity.

Just remember, 3000 + died, and MANY more afterward. its our jobs as citizens of AMERICA (whoever is American) and citizens of this world, to find out what really happened.

[edit on 11/6/2009 by ugie1028]

reply to post by The_Zomar

I feel like spreading truth today and would love an old fashioned debate with real facts.

If you are confident and assured of the strength of your position, I would suggest that ATS is not the place to go for a good debate. It's like playing a game on easy mode, since (being a conspiracy forum) - the majority of the posters will be more open to your suggestions without serious or thorough contrary arguments.

For a real debate, I would suggest starting up a dialog at one of the following sites:

JREF: 9/11 Conspiracy Theory subforum

League of Reason Forums: Conspiracy Theories

You'll probably find more lively and robust debate at the JREF forums. LoR can be a bit slow to respond, and mostly revolves around a fairly small YouTube community.

Originally posted by Badgered1
Follow the money.

Who stood to financially gain from the events of 9/11, the subsequent invasions of Afghnaistan and Iraq etc.?

Think Silverstein and the WTC. Think no-bid contracts to Haliburton. Think oil pipelines. Think pharma. Think defense contracts. Take all the major players, and draw little lines from one to the other.
What do you have?

A line straight to the 360 TONS of cash flown to Iraq, and then a large portion of it going missing. You see, bush/cheney did not care if contractors were committing massive fraud ....... because the administration and their buddies were rolling in the *real* money.

reply to post by The_Zomar


Tiny mind?

You are the one who made the idiotic statement concerning Silverstein
buying insurance on WTC month before building were destroyed

I pointed out that Silverstein was required by banks to buy the insurance

Maybe should have done some research first....

For your enlightenment

In its court papers, Swiss Re shows how Silverstein first tried to buy just $1.5 billion in property damage and business-interruption coverage. When his lenders objected, he discussed buying a $5 billion policy. Ultimately, he settled on the $3.5 billion figure, which was less than the likely cost of rebuilding. His lenders, led by GMAC, a unit of General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ), which financed nearly the entire cost of the lease, agreed.

If the history of the World Trade Center is any guide, estimating the cost of a project of that scale is fraught with peril. In 1964, when the Port Authority announced plans to build the original complex, the construction budget was $525 million. By 1973, when construction was complete, the cost had tripled to an estimated $1.5 billion.

So Silverstein opted to buy less insurance thar replacment cost of the
buildings. He still has to pay rent for couple holes in the ground....

reply to post by Lasheic

If you are confident and assured of the strength of your position, I would suggest that ATS is not the place to go for a good debate. It's like playing a game on easy mode, since (being a conspiracy forum) - the majority of the posters will be more open to your suggestions without serious or thorough contrary arguments.

I disagree with you completely.

I took a glance at your two conspiracy web sites and looked at who, how, what in their debating forum and I find it mostly GL who are running the show. Both web sites scoff at most conspiracies theory.

Funny though if it wasn’t for conspiracies theory we couldn’t get to the truth. Think I am wrong ask a police officers, or a detective about how conspiracies theories help solve their cases.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
All right, here's one that comes to mind-

Q: Why on EARTH would anyone ever stage some insanely complex faked terrorist attack just so they could invade some worthless toilet of a country like Afghanistan?

A: You're seeing gov't conspiracies behind the 9/11 attack becuase you want to see gov't conspiracies behind the 9/11 attack, and you don't particularly care how absurd they sound.

A: Chaos... it provides the most chaos imaginable. Out of Chaos comes Order, a NWO... It's funny that the Truth movement community thinks the truth will never come out, when TPTB own a few our so called "Truth Seekers".

9/11 was meant to be exposed just like the Reichstag Fire was eventually exposed.... The only problem is, I can't prove it until it happens.

and when it does happen... We will probably be living in the aftermath of WWIII.



Seems like if the internet existed in 1937... and I was living in Germany... I would have a few people calling me crazy also. And I would have a few people telling me: "You're seeing NAZI conspiracies behind the Reichstag Fire becuase you want to see NAZI conspiracies behind the Reichstag Fire, and you don't particularly care how absurd they sound."

[edit on 6-11-2009 by Doomsday 2029]

A recent Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll of 1,010 Americans found that 36 percent suspect the U.S. government promoted the attacks or intentionally sat on its hands. Sixteen percent believe explosives brought down the towers. Twelve percent believe a cruise missile hit the Pentagon.
Distrust percolates more strongly near Ground Zero. A Zogby International poll of New York City residents two years ago found 49.3 percent believed the government "consciously failed to act."

www.msnbc.msn.com...

The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.
J. Edgar Hoover

There is only one politically serious explanation of this now-indisputable fact: powerful forces within the US military/intelligence complex wanted a terrorist incident on US soil in order to create the needed shift in public opinion required to embark on a long-planned campaign of military intervention in Central Asia and the Middle East. Whether or not they knew the scale of the impending attacks and what the precise targets would be, they acted in such a way as to block the arrest of known terrorist operatives and allow them to carry out their plot.
Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, Army intelligence officer, 2005-08-15

...all in all, it's been a fabulous year for Laura and me.
George W. Bush, December 21, 2001

issuepedia.org...

"Why would the government fake a terrorist attack to invade a s**thole like Afghanistan?For the opium!"

It seems that toilet of a country is now producing 93% of the entire world supply of a crop used to produce one of the most addictive, expensive and profitable street drugs.

Article from May 23, 2001 (Pre 9/11)
Taliban ban on opium yields impressive results
www.msnbc.msn.com...

Post 9/11 Afghan Heroin Explosion

reply to post by dodadoom

David Bowman was chief of advanced space programs under presidents Ford and Carter. Fitts and Bowman agree that the "most unbelievable conspiracy" theory is the one retailed by the government.
Then there's Morgan O. Reynolds, appointed by George W. Bush as chief economist at the Labor Department. He left in 2002 and doesn't think much of his former boss; he describes President Bush as a "dysfunctional creep," not to mention a "possible war criminal."

The government's case is a laugh-out-loud proposition. They used patsies and lies and subterfuge and there's no way that Bush and Cheney could have invaded Iraq without the help of 9/11." "It is already possible to know beyond a reasonable doubt one very important thing: The destruction of the World Trade Center was an inside job, orchestrated by domestic terrorists," he says. "The welfare of our republic and perhaps even the survival of our civilization depend on getting the truth about 9/11 exposed."
The audience rose and applauded for more than a minute.
"Reality is a thin line between denial and paranoia."
"It's like the Nazi-facilitated Reichstag fire," Honegger says from her home in California. "They guided and secretly protected it to justify their global agenda."

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Absolutely true. Good article, great read.

Originally posted by godless
Why would the government fake a terrorist attack to invade a s**thole like afghanistan??? For the opium!!!!!

Oh so now in addition to your accusing the gov't of instigating a war to make war profiteers and oil companies rich, it's also a war to make the US into a drug pusher. Would you mind terribly explaining why the US is working with the UN to crack down on the opium growers in Afghanistan?

US, UN crack down on opium growers

These 9/11 conspiracy theorists are absolutely amazing. They willingly go off the rails conjuring up increasingly cynical conspiracies on top of conspiracies within conspiracies in never ending circular logic, all based on absolutely nothing but a really depressingly bleak outlook of the world. Why don't you just accuse the gov't of strangling kittens and manufacturing toilet paper out of murdered newborn babies and be done with it.

Jeez, try to be a little realistic, here.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
Oh so now in addition to your accusing the gov't of instigating a war to make war profiteers and oil companies rich, it's also a war to make the US into a drug pusher.

Plane recorded to be flying in and out of USA:
CIA plane crashes with over 3 tons of coke

And for the Nano Thermite Deniers:
Thermite found in debris


But you know, those who believe the official story won't comment on facts so my post was probably worthless.

The CIA shipping in drugs is OLD news.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/12e58817446d.jpg[/atsimg]

US marines guard opium crops.