Paying govt money to greedy doctors will not produce affordable health care.

reply to post by groingrinder


Are you only referring to the doctors that head insurance companies? Or are you referring to all doctors?

Me personally, I don't think the ones that head insurance companies are really doctors anymore.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Complicated equipment does not necessarily have to be expensive. It does not have to recoup the cost on one or two patients, or in one or two years either. Spread the cost out over twenty years.

reply to post by nixie_nox


I am talking about all doctors and all insurance companies. Eliminate the greed to eliminate the need.

Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by nixie_nox

 

I am talking about all doctors and all insurance companies. Eliminate the greed to eliminate the need.

With a Nationalised Healthcare system you will eliminate the greed and the insurance companies in one hit.

reply to post by Wotan


NO YOU WILL NOT. You will just be replacing private insurance companies with a government run insurance company.

This is not the way to AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE. Health care where everybody can reach into their bank account and come up with the money. Health care where you do not have to pay for the rest of your life to see a doctor.

Just a little reality check here folks.

I do realize that most people think that MD's make huge sums of money and they used to back in the days Quincy ME and before DRG's but the reality is most (95%) do not.

In the SF Bay Area your average GP may make between 250-400K a year. Remember that up to that point they are putting in 80 hours a week (Minimum) in Residency and most finish school with 200-400K in school loans.

To give you perspective a nurse at the same hospital working full time nights (36 hours a week) can expect anywhere between 150-230K a year. With nowhere near the debt and start earning that kind of money 5-10 years BEFORE the doc finishes school.

Now your elite MD's make much much more but again they have a set of skills that they rightfully should be compesated for. There is this pediatric cardiac surgeon that I have worked with for over 15 years. He makes about what the major league average is 1 million a year. But you know what he has saved 10's of thousands of lives in the time I have known him. I would let him operate on my son he is that good and thats the best compliment I can give someone IMHO.

In summary being an MD is not the money mill it used to be and the high majority do it because they want to not because its the golden ticket.

reply to post by FredT


That was basically going to be my next point. If you have a heart attack and need a quadruple bypass.. are you going to grab your neighbor the computer tech? Or you going to go to the heart surgeon?

That is why they can charge.

Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by Wotan

 

NO YOU WILL NOT. You will just be replacing private insurance companies with a government run insurance company.

This is not the way to AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE. Health care where everybody can reach into their bank account and come up with the money. Health care where you do not have to pay for the rest of your life to see a doctor.

You obviously do not understand what Nationalised Healthcare is.

You would pay a % of your income tax to the Government to pay for the healthcare. You would no longer pay your health insurance company - the income tax payment would replace it.

Lets see, we have a doctor spend hundreds of thousands on becoming a doctor and you want to call him greedy. I think someone needs some mental health but don't go see a doctor. Go see Obama for your mental masturbation...

reply to post by northof8


Whatever makes you sleep good at night. I still say nobody should have to pay their whole lives into national health care or a private insurance to afford the services of a doctor of any kind. COSTS NEED TO COME DOWN. For Medical School as well as for their services. People need doctoring. It is immoral to hold them over a barrel for their entire lives extracting money the whole time to pay doctors.

reply to post by Wotan

It is you who do not understand. If you pay your taxes for health care then you are paying for government health insurance.

reply to post by FredT


I still say seven thousand dollars an hour is too much. Even for a heart surgeon.

reply to post by groingrinder



Don't forget that the surgeon now has to pay the malpractise insurance. The staff, the equipment, and taxes.

Originally posted by FredT
To give you perspective a nurse at the same hospital working full time nights (36 hours a week) can expect anywhere between 150-230K a year.

Average nurses DO NOT make anywhere near 150-230k a year especially fresh out of school. It's very rare for a nurse to make six figures. The only way nurses can touch six figures is if they are 1) in the upper reigns of management 2) are highly specialized in things like surgery, neonatal care, etc 3) have a some kind of really advanced education. All of these things require a lot of time just like becoming a doctor does.

To put it into perspective, nurses expecting 150k a year and a 36 hour work week would have to make roughly 80 dollars an hour. Nurses expecting a salary in the low six figure range working 40 hours a week for 52 weeks (a year) would need to make 50/hr to get 104,000! My Aunt is a nurse and has been for 13 years. She has a BSN and only makes about 48k a year.

I agree with the OP, health care should not require insurance of any kind. People should be able to pay health care costs entirely out of pocket. Medical and dental costs never cease to amaze me. Last month I made a visit to my local ER. I got my cut finger cleaned up, a tetanus shot and an application of liquid stitches (which is nothing more than surgical grade super glue - I know this because as the doctor applied it he told me and giggled). The whole ordeal, which includes cutting my finger, driving to the hospital, parking, filling out paperwork, paying a 100 dollar fee up front, getting treated and driving home took roughly an hour and fifteen minutes. My local hospital outsources the ER doctors from a separate company. That company sent me a bill for $503 because the doctor saw me. I was in the presence of this doctor for all of 25 minutes. I can't think of any reason why a doctor (or anybody for that matter) should make nearly 1000 dollars an hour. It's flat out absurd.

Originally posted by MMP
Average nurses DO NOT make anywhere near 150-230k a year especially fresh out of school.

Im not an average nurse, Im a Pediatric Critical Care Transport Nurse Specalist (RNTS) but im on the same scale as any nurse at my hospital be it an RNTS or a clinic nurse.

I was refering to the SF Bay Area which does have the highest salaries in the world for nurses. And yes my base rate is over $70 an hour. Working nights you add 18% to that and Im NOT top of scale. BSN (Which I have BTW) makes no difference here on the West Coast by and large.

Now in the South and other areas its alot lower (alot lower) but its all about persepective. Where I live a 3 br/2ba 1100 sq foot home runs is easily a million and up
www.mlslistings.com... ft=1500&st=active,pending&clsn=ResidentialProperty

Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by FredT

 

I still say seven thousand dollars an hour is too much. Even for a heart surgeon.

DO you really think he makes that per hour? If you factor in how many hours the man is at work which is about 80+ on a slow week. its more like 240 an hour.

AFAIK and I might add his patients are, even 10K an hour would be worth every cent for someone that good.

If you want your kid seen by the lowest bidder by all means, but hey we see those kids that were botched and he fixes them too.

Originally posted by groingrinder
\
The key to affordable health care is to put caps on the money that can be charged for procedures by doctors and to stop price gouging by hospitals and medical suppliers.

Already done by health insurance companies

IT is called a prescribed discount typically - it sets a cap on the kinds of procedure, quantity
and TOTAL amount a doctor can bill insurance for any given claim.

EVERY INSURANCE BILL SUBMITTED TO CLAIM IS SUBJECT TO THIS


THE INSURANCE COMPANIES KEEP THE DIFFERENCE - WAKE UP ALL _ IT IS A SCAM!

Originally posted by groingrinder
The last time my father had a stent put in, the doctor pocketed twenty grand from his insurance and medicare for a two and a half hour procedure. Not exactly the kind of money your average man on the street has.

Why should I have to pay 300 dollars or more a month for health insurance for my entire life because some greedy doctors have gotten together and fixed the system so they all get fabulously rich in a very short time?

I have no problem paying a doctor several hundred dollars an hour, but over seven thousand dollars an hour is quite a bit too much. The only reason they can get away with this is because it is a "medical" procedure. You put the word "medical" in front of anything and it automatically multiplies the value many fold.

Man you are way off base here.
I work for a specialist doctor, and though you may think he makes a ton of money, he does not. A HUGE portion of that money goes to malpractice insurance, close to a quarter of a million each year just for him, and he is not even in a high-risk field such as heart surgery. Then you have the cost of the equipment, the cost of the doctors personal office, the cost of the employees, the money that has to go to the surgical facility or hospital, the cost of equipment maintenance, etc. There is a lot of overhead in the medical field, and much of it is insurance to keep sue happy people from putting all the good doctors out of business with frivolous lawsuits.

No! You want to know what is wrong with the medical field? Its people who smoke two packs a day, eat McDonalds daily, drink a 6 pack of beer before bed, then the family sues the doctor when that person dies from heart failure or during heart surgery….
Therein lays the problem.

In New Hampshire, many physicians are leaving as malpractice insurance costs soar. Specialty physicians have experienced a 50 percent increase in premiums from five years ago. The average premium is now close to $100,000 for obstetricians and neurosurgeons.

… That is from 2008, now if Doctors were making such BIG profits, then why would they be leaving the business in droves?

Originally posted by groingrinder
Then there is the equipment. Most medical equipment is no more complicated than your average car or truck, yet it costs quite a bit more.

That is because it has to meet FDA requirements, including being serviced and tested regularly. Much of the stuff today is nuclear, and is just a bit more complex then your truck.

Originally posted by groingrinder
Also there is no reason for hospitals to make a profit. Pay the bills, pay the staff, pay for the equipment and upkeep of the premesis, pay to build the building. What more do you need?

Hospitals are businesses like any other. They have boards of directors, and shareholders to whom they owe financial responsibility.

Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by Wotan

 

It is you who do not understand. If you pay your taxes for health care then you are paying for government health insurance.

I suggest you read about how the UK's NHS is funded and how it works for everyone in the UK. It is funded by the taxpayer for ALL citizens of the UK whether they are employed, unemployed or retired. UK citizens pay for this through their National Health Insurance contributions which is a paltry 13% of gross income (depending on salary scales). Lower wage earners pay less than this.

Do you honestly expect a country to have totally FREE healthcare for EVERYONE? Then if you do, you are in cloud cuckoo land. I believe that there is only one country in the world that provides FREE healthcare to all and that is the Sultanate of Brunei ....... the price though is an absolute Monarchy.