House GOP pens 230-page health bill draft

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
reply to post by jibeho

 

Guys, you have no idea how alien this discussion sounds to the rest of the civilised world. Like, no offence or smarminess meant, but really!

Do you care how your internal debates look to the rest of the world? Does the UK, or France, or Russia, or China, etc. etc. etc.?

Real news for you, we don't care. Now go back and fix all that's wrong with Canada first, then maybe we can talk ....

You don't care

Real news for you

We do

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Well if only we could be as wise, great, and wonderful as Canada.

...with a health care system as good as the one you are installing in Iraq.

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
reply to post by jibeho

 

Guys, you have no idea how alien this discussion sounds to the rest of the civilised world. Like, no offence or smarminess meant, but really!

Do you care how your internal debates look to the rest of the world? Does the UK, or France, or Russia, or China, etc. etc. etc.?

We're always up for a visit...see for yourself. And here at ATS, you can chime in on a Canadian topic or not...your call.

Real news for you, we don't care. Now go back and fix all that's wrong with Canada first, then maybe we can talk ....

Well, we're working on it...gotta get rid of these right-wing arses in Parliament, first.

Like I said thorough...not meaning to create a fuss, just making an observation. Consider it a mirror being held up.

Your current health care crisis leaves the rest of the world mystified.

(A quick self-edit to bring us back to the issue that got me started... )

It also doesn't block insurers from denying coverage to people with pre-existing health conditions, as Democrats would do.

That's the part I can't fathom...



[edit on 3-11-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]

"Your current health care crisis leaves the rest of the world mystified."

There is no law that gives our government the power or right to FORCE us to participate in anything. The citizens of the USA are not subordinate to the government. A slave nation is always mystified by the free man.

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
"Your current health care crisis leaves the rest of the world mystified."

There is no law that gives our government the power or right to FORCE us to participate in anything. The citizens of the USA are not subordinate to the government. A slave nation is always mystified by the free man.

Really...I suppose that includes the draft, when it is called, income tax, that sort of thing. How peculiar...or how very gracious of y'all to do what you're told.

Well, in the constitution everyone of age and male is required to own and provide a firearm. We are the militia, the army. A draft has no real meaning, it's a prescribed duty. Many americans don't pay tax, almost a third of the population dont file any sort of tax form. Our current government does not follow our constitution, so you wonder why we have wars? Our current government are imperialists using an unconstitutional merc army. Look, we have bigger problems here than poor people getting free crap. We have 100+ years of constitutional damage to repair.

Wow...what a relief...a GOP Health Care Bill...

Let's now rip into it and see how much of the language we can take out of context ...the crazier the BS the better.

Okay lets start with page one..Here they are telling states what to do and assigning a "secretary"...I will hence forth call this person the "trample on states rights czar"

This czar will determine how much each state must pay out of thier own pocket!

(1) IN GENERAL.—Not later than January 1, 2010, each State shall—
(A) subject to paragraph (3), operate—
(i) a qualified State reinsurance program described in subsection (b); or
(ii) qualifying State high risk pool described in subsection (c)(1); and (B) subject to paragraph (4), apply to the operation of such a program from State funds an amount equivalent to the portion of State funds derived from State premium assessments (as defined by the Secretary) that are not otherwise used on State health care programs.

Here it looks like they are asking each state to pay insurance companies if they lose money....SOCIALISM..the states will protect insurance companies from "aggregate spending of their enrollees" as well as against big claims by individuals...hmmm

(2) FORM OF PROGRAM.—A qualified State reinsurance program may provide reinsurance—
(A) on a prospective or retrospective basis;
and (B) on a basis that protects health insurance issuers against the annual aggregate spending of their enrollees as well as purchase protection against individual catastrophic costs.

Now the "trample on states rights" Czar will be "keeping records" and otherwise tracking us!

C) RECORDS.—The Secretary shall keep sufficient records such that a determination of citizenship or nationality only has to be made once for any individual under this paragraph.

C'mon folks...I am only through the first few pages..lets see what crazy language we can take liberties with and distort!

Lets "reveal" how this bill will put microchips in our heads and create death panels!

Here is the PDF
media.npr.org...

...Que the sound of crickets.....



[edit on 3-11-2009 by maybereal11]

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
Look, we have bigger problems here than poor people getting free crap. We have 100+ years of constitutional damage to repair.

Perhaps...but how many of those 'poor people getting free crap' represent the future of your country. Certainly, they represent your Brethren.

At least, that's how we look at it...

The only true fix for poverty is to re-enact homesteading. A family with a chance/means to feed itself, of its own merit, is the main difference between being in poverty or not. A job is not a requirement to live, yet it(the government) is now forcing that concept.

[edit on 3-11-2009 by LordBaskettIV]

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
The only true fix for poverty is to re-enact homesteading. A family with a chance/means to feed itself, of its own merit, is the main difference between being in poverty or not. A job is not a requirement to live, ...

You know that avatar of yours...the late 1800s bloke...he is an actor, and the world has moved on since then. You can't stuff it back in a can and start again...you fix what you've got by demanding good government.

And if they don't listen...throw their useless arses out. Thats why our neo-con, theo-con Steve can't get a majority. It's yours to fix. You can't go back.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

And if they don't listen...throw their useless arses out.

That is indeed wise advice, my friend. I hope Americans take your advice, and vote them all out of office.
A few months ago, there was this poll, and results:

Americans Agree: Throw the Bums Out!
| August 31, 2009
A new Rasmussen poll confirms it: A majority of Americans are tired of Congress.


If they could vote to keep or replace the entire Congress, just 25% of voters nationwide would keep the current batch of legislators.


A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 57% would vote to replace the entire Congress and start all over again.

Let's hope they remember next November.

Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
reply to post by jibeho

 

Guys, you have no idea how alien this discussion sounds to the rest of the civilised world. Like, no offence or smarminess meant, but really!

Do you care how your internal debates look to the rest of the world? Does the UK, or France, or Russia, or China, etc. etc. etc.?

Real news for you, we don't care. Now go back and fix all that's wrong with Canada first, then maybe we can talk ....

You don't care

Real news for you

We do

Real intelligence for you:

if you put your "caring" into actually doing something to make things better here instead of wringing your hands over what other countries think, you just might be a little more useful to the rest of us.

reply to post by sos37

Conservatism means staying the hell out of private business. Therefore, you won't see any bill from a real conservative imposing regulations on private business. Insurance is a business, sorry to say.

That depends. I don't see any Democrats enforcing Anti-trust laws either. Yes...the government for the most part should stay out of most business matters...but when companies become to large they should be hit with an anti-trust stick to protect small businesses. Capitalism has to be capped SOS. There is no way around it. That's the problem with the system. No anti-trust enforcement since the 70's....and NAFTA.

Right now we have international corporations flooding our government with money. Their interests no longer serve what is best for the USA.

The health insurance industry is controlled, for the most part, by 5 companies, who are essentially running a monopoly. I must remind you..the health insurance industry doesn't even handle real money. It's all numbers in a computer system. It's UNNECESSARY.

Everyone has the right to live man. It will never be perfect...but we need to strive for it.

[edit on 3-11-2009 by David9176]

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
reply to post by jibeho

 

Guys, you have no idea how alien this discussion sounds to the rest of the civilised world. Like, no offence or smarminess meant, but really!

Yeah well no offense or smarminess intended, but we really don't give a rat's ass what the rest of the world thinks. As soon as you fix all of the problems in your own country then I'd invite you to nitpick at ours. Until then, please keep your snide remarks to yourself.

reply to post by maybereal11


What's that - sour grapes because people actually took time to read the first health care bill and point out the stinking crap that Democrats were trying to sneak past everyone?

Your post doesn't sound hostile at all. If you've got a legitimate complaint with the GOP bill we're all ears. Otherwise, you're just bitter.

It seems that the most effective, efficient method of not only addressing our health care, but the rest of our problems as a nation could quickly be solved if we hanged all the lawyers.

Of course that would take care of a number of this delusional Congress in the process.

Healthcare can be affordable if we use just a tiny bit of common sense.

No more mandates on what an insurance company must provide.

Put it all on a menu, and let the buyers decide what elements they want. Why in hell would a mature, elderly couple be required to pay in their premium, a surcharge to enable others lower pregnancy coverage?

It's probably just me, but pregnancy is not a medical condition, and sure as hell not a medical emergency.

The problem now is that individuals don't want to have to make co-payments. They want to just have the insurance company py for everything. Well, tough ****.

Deregulation, along with malpractice limitations will enable afforable, efficient medical coverage for anyone who wants it.

Even higher risk groups will be able to buy into joint group policies that provide for medical conditions where the greater exposure for the insurance company is covered by the group.

There will always be those who are too damned lazy, selfish, stupid, sorry, and uncaring to purchase any kind of care.

Every county can provide a clinic for these patients who habitually wait for crap to fall off, and then go to ER, where they run ninety tests for the sole purpose of covering their medical asses.

They have county transporation sitting at the ER. Send their asses to the clinic.

Just a little common sense. Everyone's costs go down, efficiency improves, and our level of care goes up.

reply to post by David9176


I completely agree with you - everyone in this country should be able to see a doctor when they need to and medications should be reasonably priced.

But doctors deserve to get paid for their services also. Their time, wisdom and skill is valuable. Can you imagine what would happen if suddenly there were no insurance companies and there were say 2% of the current amount of doctors that we have now (the ones really dedicated to the Hypocratic Oath)? What would happen if no one wanted to be in health care any longer because they knew they couldn't raise a family on those wages? What would this country do without the medical personnel that it has now?

People would die. Disease would run rampant. We might see the Black Plague all over again.

reply to post by sos37

But doctors deserve to get paid for their services also. Their time, wisdom and skill is valuable. Can you imagine what would happen if suddenly there were no insurance companies and there were say 2% of the current amount of doctors that we have now (the ones really dedicated to the Hypocratic Oath)? What would happen if no one wanted to be in health care any longer because they knew they couldn't raise a family on those wages? What would this country do without the medical personnel that it has now?

Of course doctors and any person providing medical treatment should make money. My problem is that insurance is profitable. Stockholders and CEO's rake in millions/billions of dollars while people are not getting proper health care. Many who even have insurance...like me...will avoid going to the doctor because I can't even afford the payments after insurance coverage.

Why can't I pay 10 more dollars a week for full coverage? That more than covers the 20 percent I'm liable for percentage wise.

It's all about money...not lives....not to mention...nothing is being done about our borders!!! We have to get a hold on illegal immigration before we should even get started on the healthcare debate.

Everything is wrong....I don't trust washington to fix it either...I don't know why anyone does right now.

Liberals mean well...but they should know better not to trust those who have had their pockets filled by corporations. Hell....many politicians become lobbyist for the same corporations that used to fill their campaign coffers.

The system is broken. Let's get corporate money out of Washington and then have real debate and get this figured out!

reply to post by David9176

Why can't I pay 10 more dollars a week for full coverage? That more than covers the 20 percent I'm liable for percentage wise.

Well because 520 bucks/year extra doesn;t exactly cover the 20% when you get cancer. That is why. Plus if you are in goo health and your other 20% a year doesn't add up to 520/yr why don't you just set that money aside each week and get interest on it. Then it will be there when you need it. You shouldn't need to pay an extra $10/week for someone to hold your hand.

reply to post by sos37


Does conservatism also advocate that a sector of the market is allowed to be monopolized and have no government influence whatsoever? Because that's exactly what the health insurance sector is, a monopoly thus normal government regulation is not allowed. Sure you might argue that it's ok because they're private institutions, but is that the moral thing to do? and by moral i don't mean it in religious terms but in the humanist way. How is telling insurance companies they can't deny people coverage even though they've been paying into the system for years based on something such as taking preventive-aids medication after being raped going to hurt a multi-billion dollar-profit-making-a-year health insurance provider? How can anyone with a heart rationalize that as bad for business???

Originally posted by sos37
Yeah well no offense or smarminess intended, but we really don't give a rat's ass what the rest of the world thinks.

That has become quite apparent.

As soon as you fix all of the problems in your own country then I'd invite you to nitpick at ours. Until then, please keep your snide remarks to yourself.

Now, is it snide and nitpicking to offer up a suggestion to a pal in trouble? Do I have to have all of my house in order before I can lend a hand? Not how we do things up here.

My comments on the differences in our systems have not been based upon gloating that ours works better than yours...they have generally been to defray the lies and misinformation that are being pumped out by the health care industries (and their shills) about how broken our system is. Which it isn't.

But I just can't for the life of me figure out why y'all would leave fellow Americans behind, in the ditch. Even as a constitutional issue.

Which takes me back full circle to the observation that this whole discussion is simply alien to the rest of the civilised world. Just holdin' up a mirror, Cousin.