Saudi court upholds child rapist crucifixion ruling

Originally posted by SLAYER69
I just thought of something...

How many here have children? I do. I see nothing wrong with this form of punishment.

I wonder how many of the bleeding hearts have children?
I can't imagine too many PARENTS disagreeing with the sentence.

I have a child. Yes I would want his filthy ass dead if this happened to my child. No I would not want to see someone mutilated, a simple execution is fine by me. Thats what separates me from him, I'm not a sick individual that gets satisfaction from human suffering.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Here is the reality Slayer this does not protect Children it endangers them further. Many more pedophiles are now opting to kill their victims rather than risk life long sexual offender status and three strikes and you’re out laws by allowing their victims to live.

Wrong...

He was a repeat offender. He carried out his sick and twisted wishes not once or twice or even three times but FIVE times. He was a predator. I doubt we will see anymore out of HIM.

Success.

Some say it's Barbaric. Yeah OK I can see that point of view.

I'm not completely ignorant. I would say however even those parents who disagree with me can't deny that fact that if it came down to taking the life of somebody who was about to take the life of their children that they wouldn't think twice. Now why is that?

Instinct.

A Parents first responsibility is to the safety of their Children. Second, To eliminate such threats Permanently.



[edit on 3-11-2009 by SLAYER69]

The Beheading AND Crucifiction is definitely OTT.


But he should be made an example of....one or the other will suffice.
We're way too soft on this stuff over here in the west.


They should cut his **** off and then tie him to a tree/cross. (crucify)


Let him bleed and die a slow death.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Very few, if any of us, are disputing that fact that this monster needed removing from the gene pool. Of course, he did...

What we're disputing, or I am anyway, is the usefulness, or in my humble opinion, the lack of same in making the removal in such a gruesome, and ultimately futile, way.

Yes, a monster is removed. But the aftermath of crucifying a corpse? An object lesson? To whom? The other monsters out there? I think not... More likely a message to those who might object to the State. The message? "We can do this to you, too."

These things beget their next.

You have the pedophile who raped children.
In my mind, he sacrificed his right to exist by so horribly violating the existence of others.

If they guy had not submitted to his perverted physical desires and left those children unmolested, none of this would have come about. So, I can rationalize that the guilty party is also responsible for his own execution...

reply to post by SLAYER69


Actually no Slayer I am right, and Newspaper accounts and articles as well as published Crime Statistics back me up on this.

Here in Miami we have an ongoing crisis because of sexual offender laws.

The only place zoned for sexual offenders to lawfully live is an uninhabited Island under the Julia Tuttle Causeway that is used for structural support for the causeway. It is the only place in all of Miami that does not fall within the prescribed distances of playgrounds and schools.

Currently a tent city exists underneath the bridge that the Department of Corrections monitors and drops all people with the sexual offender status off at when released from prison or jail.

Currently around a hundred men and women live underneath the bridge in a makeshift community that has no sewage or sanitation, trash pickup or electricity. They live in a collection of tents, and campers and old cars in deplorable and unsanitary condition.

It has caused a major controversy as the community steadily grows because legally they are banished there for life or until the law changes. They are all allowed to work at prescribed jobs but must return to under the bridge after work.
Failure to be under the bridge during Department of Corrections head counts can result in being immediately sent back to prison indefinitely.

The problem is none of the lawmakers want to change the law in large part because of the highly emotional reactions amongst the population regarding sexual offences.

The laws in Florida were currently instituted through the lobbying efforts of a young woman whose father is one of the most powerful and prominent lobbyists in Tallahassee, Florida’s State Capitol. She was a victim of their female nanny whom she secretly carried on a Dominant/submissive sexual relationship for 6 years while both of her high profile professional parents where at work.

She has in the last few months visited the camp under the Julia Tuttle Causeway and is now lobbying to get the very law she lobbied for overturned or amended after seeing the horrific effect that it has on the people sentenced to ‘life under the bridge’.

Any one of these people who commit another sexual crime will be sentenced to life in prison as an already established sexual offender.

Several recent Florida child abductions, rapes and murders have resulted in the offenders who have been repeat offenders confiding in open court that the new laws is what caused them to kill the victim when previously they had not killed the victim.

The Miami Herald has been having an ongoing editorial discussion on how to solve the impasse by columnist Fred Grimm whose dozens of columns on the subject are free to read on Miami Herald.com by either clicking on Fred Grimm’s icon or typing Sex Offender’s Camp in the search box.

It will also pull up other articles written by the Herald on ongoing and recent cases involving child abduction and murder and how the new sexual offenders law played into the crimes.

Do a little research on the subject and you will find that no I am not wrong.

But hey if having your retribution is so important you don’t mind the fact that you could possibly condemn other children to death as a result you go right ahead my friend.

Moral outrage and indignity doesn’t solve problems Slayer. It creates problems. Intelligent discourse and reason solves problems.

I am surprised at some posts saying that 'a punishment like this doesn't deter potential sexual predators'.

I admit it might not deter all the paedos but it does keep their numbers very low compared to the Western paedos.

Well lets look at the crime rates in Saudi.

Rape is a complicated issue in Saudi Arabian crime statistics. Rape is reportedly low, at 59 reported cases per year[75]. The low number of reported rapes may be due to the harsh sentences meted out by the state to rape victims,

Source



[edit on 3-11-2009 by merkava]

reply to post by SLAYER69


I hate to say it but I expect your number is wrong.... given that the average is estimated at around 117 children molested per abuser.

So how many more did this guy abuse? indeed how many more did he kill before he was caught, these people are and will always be monsters.

The typical child sex offender molests an average of 117 children, most of who do not report the offence. Source: National Institute of Mental Health, 1988.

Without a doubt they can't be rehabilitated, still I feel that locking them away forever for the slightest offence is the best bet.. how many are molested due to the relaxed way these monsters are allowed to be on the streets. That for me is the greatest risk as a parent.

What I find the most disgusting is that most abusers where abused, as a survivor I can not comprehend how someone who has been abused can then go onto abuse, given they have first hand experience of the pain they are inflicting, only a truly sick mind can do that ones that need removing from society.

reply to post by seagull


Well then we come down to the method of removal. Should it be quiet injection with no notification of the public or an uber -public display of consequences. My point has been stated, as well as my views on this question. As much as some want to try and spin this as ( not you my friend) killling and dismembering the mentally ill for spectacle, it DOES help weed out the worst of them. Those who would go through with the act knowing the painful death that stands in front of them, are truly the ones we need to deal with. The problem is there are MILLIONS of people, ESPECIALLY IN THE U.S., that are on the cusp and just have feelings that they may or may not act upon. This IS a deterrent. Only those whom have no self control or have the audacity to believe they will not be caught will tread this line. The rest might think twice before acting on thier "instincts".

Originally posted by merkava
I am surprised at some posts saying that 'a punishment like this doesn't deter potential sexual predators'.

I admit it might not deter all the paedos but it does keep their numbers very low compared to the Western paedos.

Well lets look at the crime rates in Saudi.

Rape is a complicated issue in Saudi Arabian crime statistics. Rape is reportedly low, at 59 reported cases per year[75]. The low number of reported rapes may be due to the harsh sentences meted out by the state to rape victims,

Source


[edit on 3-11-2009 by merkava]

The operative word in your quote is "may". I submit that perhaps another reason that so few rapes/sexual assaults are reported is the very real fear of the victims may be "blamed" for the crime in some way.

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

I hate to say it but I expect your number is wrong.... given that the average is estimated at around 117 children molested per abuser.

So how many more did this guy abuse? indeed how many more did he kill before he was caught, these people are and will always be monsters.

The typical child sex offender molests an average of 117 children, most of who do not report the offence. Source: National Institute of Mental Health, 1988.

I was going by the articles numbers....

Thanks for actually proving my point. If in fact he was responsible for many more then all the better, If however he was just getting started on his rampage then he was caught before he could carry out many MANY more. A child is pretty much defenseless. They cannot stand up for themselves.

I'm sorry and I don't mean anything personal nor am I taking any of this that way either. But this is my opinion and I stand by it.

Originally posted by seagull

Originally posted by merkava
I am surprised at some posts saying that 'a punishment like this doesn't deter potential sexual predators'.

The operative word in your quote is "may". I submit that perhaps another reason that so few rapes/sexual assaults are reported is the very real fear of the victims may be "blamed" for the crime in some way.

Did you actually read the source i posted?

Would you use the same reason of victim being 'blamed' for the low rates of other crimes taking place in Saudi?

The statistics show how other crimes in Saudi only remain in a few thousands compared to millions in US per year.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Slayer69 I know you were going by article number, but it usually gets missed by the bleeding heart.. they usualy miss or forget that these monsters are serial monsters and the numbers involved are so high as to be scary..

Tho I can assure you in comparison to some of the things I planned for a certain people in my life his treatment is quite tame, so I do honestly understand why some people and some parents are ok with this and I make no criticism of you or them.

So when I read 5, I make the assumption that there is a large number of unknown children this monster has already hurt in ever increasing severity.. after all most abusers build up to murder, not start at murder. If my memory serves me right for those that kill the numbers start running into the hundreds beforehand.

I just see this from the perspective of a little person, and given the amount of programming that takes place during the abuse, I'm making the assumption (albeit from experience) that it would be hard for that little person to deal with the demise of their abuser, especially this way, placing that on top of the abuse they have already experienced it could have negative consequences later in life, hence my reluctance to agree this approach is ok.

Not in a million years would I go by the National Institute of Health’s numbers on this subject.

Forget about how logistically difficult it would be to come by 117 different children over any period of time
unless you were a teacher or child day care worker…

The reality is that most studies conducted at NIH are done so through grants. When the grant money runs out so does your NIH office space and often your Visa in America as many of the Doctors who work at NIH are from around the world and only in America to conduct a study at NIH with grant money.

The more importance you can put on your study and the more you can demonstrate numbers that could warrant the continued funding of your study the longer you can milk that cash cow.

I know this from being a former Travel Agent in Bethesda MD three blocks from NIH and having met hundreds of doctors and researchers that work there.

There is no way that the average child molester molests 117 different children.

That is all designed to play to your emotions to cause people to think emotionally.

It’s all designed to encourage people to emotionally believe we need more government protection and intrusion in to our lives because of a grossly distorted problem.

I don’t know how to end the crimes of rape, bestiality, pedophilia or incest. I do know that retribution doesn’t prevent them from happening as we already use retribution as a punishment.

I am not advocating that people excuse or condone such crimes or criminals.

I am advocating people not delude themselves into thinking that retribution protects potential victims in general all it does is eliminate one victimizer from further victimizing people. That does nothing to protect people in general but simply protects them in the future from one individual.

It also prevents us from seriously discussing and looking at ways that could protect people in general that are truly proactive and not reactive.

Reactive retribution is not proactive protection and anyone who imagines it is, is missing the big part of the picture here.

There is a big difference between exploiting a problem for emotional satisfaction and or other forms of profit and actually formulating ways that actually do enhance protection for those most at risk.

Judge not lest ye be judged. Ultimately arguments for barbaric inhumane forms of retribution will open a Pandora’s Box that is going to make a lot more people at risk than it’s ever going to protect.

Meanwhile Cap and Trade, Nationalized Health Care, more Bailouts and more big Bankruptcies are headed our way while we remain embroiled in two bankrupting fruitless wars abroad while some of you salivate over Saudi Justice and bloodlust happily ensconced in your Bread and Circus for the day.

Judgment is coming alright, boy is it coming.

I have always held the position that the immediate family of the victims should decide the punishment in cases like this...

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

There is no way that the average child molester molests 117 different children.

Unless they live in or near regions that have child prostitution. That is a possibility no? It would make sense (evil twisted sense) that they would gravitate to areas that have child prostitution, no?

So yeah, there is definitely a way.

Originally posted by silver tongue devil
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

There is no way that the average child molester molests 117 different children.

Unless they live in or near regions that have child prostitution. That is a possibility no? It would make sense (evil twisted sense) that they would gravitate to areas that have child prostitution, no?

So yeah, there is definitely a way.

Doubtful but you are correct incidences do go up where child prostitution is available.

Yet those are few and far in between. Mostly in just the biggest cities.

The reality is that NIH would have a hard time compiling accurate data in regards to a social and criminal taboo.

At best they could only guestimate through primarily talking to people who are offenders who aren't emotionally stable to begin with.

Most pedophilia and molestation occurs within the home all througout the world and is not related to anyone society, sex, color, religion, or nation.

I don't know anyone with 117 kids.

I can tell you that as a teenager out on the streets myself in California in the early eighties that on any given day no less than 15 underage children and no more than 40 were out on the streets selling themselves, and that on average about 100 such transactions occured daily but from a clientelle that often travelled from far and wide to one of the few locations with rampant teenage prostitution.

Some of these people did not know they actually were soliciting people under age, some of them would not have solicited under age people had they known they were underage.

We are in fact talking about the world's second oldest profession and it's only the second oldest because someone had to make some money first to pay the prostitute.

I would say even the most egregious chicken hawks (street slang for a person who likes under age children) have less than 50 partners over the course of a lifetime.

117 is a rediculous number under any circumstances. Even Wilt the Stilt Chamberlain only claimed to sleep 1,000 different women in his NBA and post NBA career.

Hyping and upping the numbers for funding and emotional reaction only leads to people emotionally pursuing useless solutions.

Society is willing to put a lot more attention and money into retribution and punishment than true prevention.

The whole issue is one huge emotional hot button and where ever there exists a button exists someone wanting to push it for personal gain and power.

It's why I urge people to think logically and intellectually in regards to these things and to not indulge their own similiar passion for violence and perversion.

Only a sadist could take any delight in watching a person decapitated and crucified. The act itself is repugnant, horrible and barbaric.

The State is simply encouraging people's own sadistic tendencies and reinforcing them. The State is simply promoting violence. The same way it does when wars are declared. Don't kill unless we say it's ok and then if we do by all means have it. What a bunch of baloney. They effect it all through emotional manipulation. They effect it all by encouraging people to think with their emotions.

The truth is that the LAPD and West Hollywoods Sheriffs Department can stop street prostitution any day of the week that they want too. They don't want too, it brings in tourists, it provides an outlet for Studio Executives and other luminaries to avail themselves.

This is all exploitation start to finish, no real solutions just lots of blatant manipulation to the State's own end.

Pretty sad if you ask me.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Well I didn't know that about the source I quoted, thank you for that.. It was after all a quick and dirty search and I picked the first source..

The numbers I have in my mind are from UK sources, but I couldn't find the links to post (they are buried in a multitude of statistics) but I will search them out, they are based on the evidence given by perpetrators themselves.

The numbers are usually due to the young age that most sexual abusers start and then takes into account the age at which they are then caught.

Most seem to miss the child on child sexual abuse that is perpetrated by the young abusers, but honestly when else would it start! hence the high numbers, children do have good access to other children which may taper off in adult life..

Here is an MSM source for now.. Source

This is a three-year study of 280 identified juvenile sexual abusers, more than 90 per cent male. Abusing had very occasionally begun as young as at five-and-a-half years, although 14 years was average. More than half had abused victims five years younger than themselves and the majority abused female victims. There are great similarities in the behaviour of young abusers and adult offenders. Most had abused relatives, friends and acquaintances. In more than half the cases there had been penetration, masturbation and oral sex; one-third used verbal coercion. In some cases there had been co-abusers.

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Wow emotionally disturbed children as a source for reliable information.

Do they have some stock tips too? Consider the source, most children have a social circle of less than a dozen people. Sexual deviants would have even a smaller one.

When I joined my first Little League team at the age of 9 new kids on the team were typically run down and had their pants pulled down exposing their genitalia for a few moments while the other kids stood in a circle and laughed.

This was a right of passage not molestation and most of the kids involved had no idea why they were doing this ritual other than peer pressure and tradition.

Most sexually deviant kids are scorned by other kids, once someone confides that they are a sexual deviant to someone else it telegraphs like wild fire.

These are kids suffering a host of emotional and social problems enjoying the fact that someone wants to listen to them tell their stories, and that's just what they are stories.

I spent years as a drummer in a popular club rock band and had women throwing themselves at me nightly, I haven't slept with a 117 different people though I sure have had many more opportunities than that to do so!

These numbers are pure fabrication from unreliable and dubious sources.

We need to think of better ways to protect children. My little league team is a perfect example. The Coaches were aware of the practice and did nothing to stop the practice even though they had legal custody of the children during the practice.

Most people who end up victims end up victims because of poor judgement, lax oversight, and other things that endanger them.

We need to concentrate on strengthening those things, sadly after the decapitated head settles in the dust, and the crucified body has the last nail struck into it, and the involuntary twitching stops everyone goes home satisified.

Satisfied that their blood lust has been satiated.

The heck with the problem, we just want entertained and to feel good.

[edit on 3/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Now that you have slapped me for my knee jerk response to the OP I shall take my star back and give it to you for forcing me to think.