Conspiracy of human intelligence.

Anyone have any decent theories in who or what is behind or causing people's inability to use logic and reason? I see so many whack job ideas on here trying to use science to explain them. Like dimensional physics being equated to other realms of existence. Or some people trying to lay claim to knowing the pineal gland is some magical third eye and all those oh so intelligent scientists who know how the pineal gland works are actually idiots. Or some people trying to imply that energy is some magical substance separate from matter as if they are *actually* the same thing despite the fact that energy is just matter in motion.

Honestly, I'm just trying to wonder where you people got your education or if you dropped out of school or perhaps just decided to sleep through all of your classes. I mean FFS folks, you even attempt to make QM seem magical and the theory isn't even that flipping confusing if you bother to actually look at the physics going on.

Everyone take a deep breath and repeat after me.

"The universe is not magical, this isn't middle earth and the human species is not special."

Ahhhh, there feel better?

Typo-in-Title-Edited

[edit on 18-10-2009 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by sirnex


Well that is according to you my friend.

If you don't think this world is "magical" then you have yet to witness child birth or the Canadian Rockies from a helicopter, or the Hymalayas.

Now I will agree there are an abundance of folks here who lay claim to things that "science" would not agree, but let's not forget what science is.

It is only our best guess at the time. Nothing we know as being scientifically true is truth. It's all just an educated assumption.

~Keeper

The universe is very magical. Seems like you want people to conform to your way of thinking, not gonna happen. Did you forget your on ATS?
That is your opinion and that's it nothing more...


PEACE!!!

A Magical universe is all a frame of mind.
Emotionally speaking, it only applies to those willing to give it that description.

That does not make it any less real though.
The amazing things in this world and beyond can and do inspire awe, and bewilderment.


As far as the metaphysical stuff goes, what does anyone suppose the next step in our evolution would be?
We may very well find ourselves in the near future with what would be considered today as extra sensory abilities.
There is energy all around, emanating from, and passing through us.
We only perceive a very small fraction of it.
The next step is to become aware of those potentials.

How can anyone ever advance their own frame of reference when being as obtuse?
They can't.
So I believe that the OP has the argument they were looking for, only it's not with the rest of the world, it's with themselves.
Have a nice day.



[edit on 10/17/2009 by reticledc]

Just one thought from my wee small voice which will mean nothing to you I suspect.

The universe becomes 'magical' when you become open to it. Until you do, you have no idea what mysteries open up in your life.

If you are happy with your understanding, then you should make no effort to see the other side of life.

I for one believe in the "magic"of the world and wasn't aware someone (you) had figured it all out.You make it sound like a choice between what you say, or believe there may be things out there we don't have an explanation for.Hmmmmm....
I choose option two no offense!
Deny ignorance seems quite appropriate here.

OP,

thanks for finding your own space to spread your disease, instead of cluttering up my thread.

i will agree that logic and reason can be hard to come by around this place, especially with respect to finding a bridge between metaphysics and REAL actual science.

but the science of consciousness is very much still in its birth pangs, and you are positioning yourself to kill it before it even gets out of the womb.

(LOOK AT THAT ^^^, i just made a metaphor between two separate ideas and no breach of logic or reason occurred during the process at all. HUH. go figure.)

i find your attitude very ugly. if humanity is "not special", why are you pretending to be smarter than all of us?

reply to post by sirnex


Do you feel better? That was some rant. I could almost sense just how threatened, lost and high minded you are at the moment. You know whats magical? That I can see, touch, smell, taste and then ponder all the information in my own personal experience of this (cue ben stein) plain, simple , ordinary existence. Void of all mystery, void of spirit where love, compassion, kindness e.c.t is a trick of the brain and all is illusion.

You have alot of faith...

[edit on 17-10-2009 by SmokeandShadow]

obvious troll is obvious

@tothetenthpower

I have my third kid on the way, yet I fail to see the logic in calling it magical or for that matter, a helicopter ride.

@Lichter daraus

Actually, I'm hoping people will start using their brains and learn more about the science they're misunderstanding in attempts to prove they got it all figured out.

@reticledc

Your using the word energy in such a way as to imply it's something separate from matter. Where are you people getting this idea from? It just does not exist in physics at all. Energy is nothing more than matter's capacity to exert force on other matter. There is no separate thing we call energy, it's all just matter, that's all the universe is made up of. It's not matter and energy as if they are two different things. Look it up if you don't believe me, hell it's in the dictionary. At least know the definition of a word before you use it folks.

@liveandlearn

What the hell do you mean by 'open to it'?

@genius/idoit

I make no claim to having it all figured out, all I am stating is a simple annoyance with other peoples misuse of scientific terms to postulate a magical universe or a mind separate from a body and some heaven/hell duality garbage. Not properly understanding the science of something and then using that misunderstanding to lay claim that there's something mystical to the universe is to be blunt... arrogantly and ignorantly the most retarded thing any one person can do in their whole lifetime.

@tgidkp

OK, listen up cupcake. Your theory is based on other planes of existence, not dimensional physics. Please learn what a dimension is before you come up with silly terminology such as 'rising into a fifth dimension'. Your whole theory you got going on there is dead wrong because you show utter lack of knowledge on what a dimension is. We exist in all dimensions all at once, they are not separate things you can pop in and out of, nor does dimensional physics even postulate such a dimwitted idea. Learn it.

@SmokeandShadow

No, I don't feel better because people came in and started spouting insane stupidity in here as if they all have it figured out and the hundred to thousands of scientists, physicists, biologists, chemists etc etc etc are all just blatant morons and these people are the real true geniuses who don't even have a lick of a clue what energy or dimensions is.

That we have senses and emotions is not magical, nor does it make the universe magical, nor does it make us magical.

@Enigma Publius

Grrr... Rawr... Fee fi fo fum or whatever the thing says... More correctly a very concerned individual seeing a real problem with people these days.

reply to post by sirnex


I'm very into this science, i don't know nearly everything about it nor will i ever, but it is still magical to me, because of what it is, the way it works and how its made. Just because we know how some things work doesn't make any it less magical.

[edit on 07/16/2009 by Lichter daraus]

reply to post by sirnex


Why don't you watch this.
current.com...

Enjoy. Life is amazing.

Don't know if link will work. Google TED "Neuroscientist has stroke finds nirvana".

reply to post by sirnex


You do know that Physics is not an absolute science but a series of theries and hypothesis' which just so happen to coincide with our very limited view of reality don't you?

Look into quantum physics and you might actually see what we are talking about.

And yes, energy exists without matter being present. Gravity for example does not require any matter to manifest itself, gravity just is.

Ohh and Again, if you don't think watching a human life being born is magical, then really why are you on this journey?

And I am not here to give you the whole bible thumping mantra of we are special cause God made it so, I am saying that out of all the billions of species to have been on this planet, why should we be given opposable thumbs and memory?

In any case, it's unfortunate that your reality is so closed from new ideas. Perhaps some meditation would be good for you.

Hope everything works out for you friend.

~Keeper

Perspective is a strange thing.

Example= You read what others type, and judge them idiots.

Where as I find what you wrote to be signs of ignorance on more then one subject (not excluding the inability to communicate your ideas without being a jerk".

Add to that your claim that "QM" is not that complicated a subject after you look at the physics of it.

Heh...funny...the guy calling everyone an "idiot" thinks quantum mechanics are based on a single (or small set of) physical laws that human science even somehow makes "easy" for the "smarter folks" like you.

Hmmm...just shows you don't know a damn quark about "QM" and you are probably using that same "quick to judge" ignorance in your "theory" about everyone being an idiot.

Oh well...I guess I agree with one thing you pointed towards. There is no shortage of ignorant youngsters making giant unproven claims and trying to present them as "valuable knowledge".

How bout this, smart guy...you show me just how easy QM are, and then explain why that very science still remains one of the very few "mostly uncharted/unknown frontiers " know to the academic world. After that, explain to me why the likes of Penrose himself credits the subatomic realm as "beyond our current ability of understanding", while you freely gallivant your opinion on it being easy.

Wait...nevermind...forget it. Lets just chalk my post here up to a meaningless rant, biased and backed with a selfish agenda, call it a done deal and move on.

That is "far more" then you provided us with your post, after all.

Enjoy "finding quantum mechanics easy".

Don't get mad if people think your dumb for saying it.

reply to post by Lichter daraus


The problem I'm having is the misuse of science to show a magical universe. People talking about energy as if it is something separate from matter, or talking about entering a higher dimension as if we don't already exist within it. Crap like that. If science does find something like a soul or a heaven and hell or another plane of existence, then fine... they were right about those things.

I mean, can't they bother looking in at least a dictionary?

reply to post by sirnex


Why must another group of "esteemed" scientists have to say something exists for you to believe in it?

Brainwashed by the tube much are we?

As stated previously, science is ONLY our best guess, none of that is truth.

~Keeper

Originally posted by sirnex
OK, listen up cupcake.....

oddly, this is a name i used to get called when i was younger. it touches a nerve with me. hard to let this pass. breathe. breathe.

Please learn what a dimension is before you come up with silly terminology such as 'rising into a fifth dimension'

i did not come up with this "silly terminology". it is something that i hear used over and over again by half-baked crackpots....which is exactly what you are accusing me of being. i am merely trying to come up with a common ground which we can ALL speak from: crackpots and scientists alike.

'...you show utter lack of knowledge on what a dimension is.

you are outright WRONG in your presumption that i dont understand the science. on the contrary, you seem to be the one that is mistaken. science is NOT some hard and immovable knowledge base which has a controlling position over the mind. rather, the mind has control over the science, and the science must continually be updated and changed.

i just dont know where you got your silly idea from. have you even been to school at all, or are you really just an ugly old troll?

No, I don't feel better because people came in and started spouting insane stupidity in here as if they all have it figured out and the hundred to thousands of scientists, physicists, biologists, chemists etc etc etc are all just blatant morons and these people are the real true geniuses who don't even have a lick of a clue what energy or dimensions is.

The problem is you come off as a tool in this post. You might not be in real life, but on here you sure seem like one. You seem to think your more superior to everyone else because apparently, no one else uses there brains, at least that's how you are portraying your self in this thread. You need to get off your high horse man.

reply to post by tothetenthpower

You do know that Physics is not an absolute science but a series of theries and hypothesis' which just so happen to coincide with our very limited view of reality don't you?

Correct, but the point your missing is that nothing in physics currently states anything remotely to the garbage I've been seen posted here.

Look into quantum physics and you might actually see what we are talking about.

QM doesn't postulate anything weird actually, if you bother to learn more about it.

And yes, energy exists without matter being present. Gravity for example does not require any matter to manifest itself, gravity just is.

Actually... no. I mean, is that your only example? According to current theory that I've heard, they are currently looking for the particle *gasp* that mediates gravity.

Ohh and Again, if you don't think watching a human life being born is magical, then really why are you on this journey?

Ohh, maybe because I enjoy kids? Doesn't flipping make it magical you tool.

And I am not here to give you the whole bible thumping mantra of we are special cause God made it so, I am saying that out of all the billions of species to have been on this planet, why should we be given opposable thumbs and memory?

WTF... given? Who the fudge factory gave us opposable thumbs and since when were we the only species on the planet with them?

In any case, it's unfortunate that your reality is so closed from new ideas. Perhaps some meditation would be good for you.

It's not closed to new ideas, it's closed from the stupidity of misusing scientific terms as if they postulate some magical mystical universe which in reality they do not.

reply to post by Mr Mask

Where as I find what you wrote to be signs of ignorance on more then one subject (not excluding the inability to communicate your ideas without being a jerk".

Blunt, annoyed, jerk... what's the difference. My attitude doesn't change the fact that these people are annoying the crap out of me for misusing scientific terminology when the problem would be solved with picking up a dictionary.

Heh...funny...the guy calling everyone an "idiot" thinks quantum mechanics are based on a single (or small set of) physical laws that human science even somehow makes "easy" for the "smarter folks" like you.

No, what's funny is I never said anything like that at all. Perhaps if people like you would stop tooling around and reading what you want to see in something, then you would take notice that the theories and mechanics isn't that flipping painfully hard and show no signs of anything magical going on.

Oh well...I guess I agree with one thing you pointed towards. There is no shortage of ignorant youngsters making giant unproven claims and trying to present them as "valuable knowledge".

Right... Youngster... That assumption is right up there with the assumption of energy being separate from matter.

How bout this, smart guy...you show me just how easy QM are, and then explain why that very science still remains one of the very few "mostly uncharted/unknown frontiers " know to the academic world. After that, explain to me why the likes of Penrose himself credits the subatomic realm as "beyond our current ability of understanding", while you freely gallivant your opinion on it being easy.

I'll play. Show one aspect of QM that postulate some magical property of the universe for me. Then we'll carry on from there.