Question on non acceptance of Homosexuals

First, let me say that i am not trying to start a fight with anyone, attack any beliefs, or anything of the sort. this is just a question I have had for as long as i can remember. It applies to more than just homosexuality, it can be applied to race issues, hatred towards other religious and the such...but anyways here it goes:

Why would a god that loves, respects, accepts, and provides for his followers EVER turn its all mighty back on a follower for the simple fact that they are homosexual?

I come from the school that first, homosexuality is not a choice, but rather it's just there. It occurs in nature with animals, we are just advanced animals, makes sense to me that it would occur in homo sapiens.and second, that yes, the bible seems to speak out against homosexuality, but the bible was written by man. man is fallible, maybe the writers got it wrong. (either on purpose, or for being blind to it themselves)

keeping those two facts in mind when answering (not looking into getting into a debate over my 2nd belief as it is off topic, but again, not really) what is your answer?

I look forward to all the responses. thanks for taking the time

You should ask God that question. The question is this. If God was existing and he didn't want honosexuality to be, would you think different. God always want us to give up sometimes what most important to us. Me I would have to say weed can probablly be the hardiest thing for me. God wants what he wants. If you want a life question you should ask God that.

The truth is that no God would EVER create a being that was so at odds with itself. It would be like living in hell without ever doing anything to deserve it. Homosexuality is not wrong in the least.

Sexuality as a "right" or "wrong" thing is purely human in nature and has nothing to do with God. I don't even know why this is still a viable question with how much religion has been bastardized and used by the weak minded to make their world more like they want it.

Its as simple as this: If you think that a person can be wrong for their preference in love, then you are as bad as any racist or religious bigot. People who believe this way only do so to disguise their own discomfort.

[edit on 10/17/09 by SantaClaus]

If you don't believe the bible stop reading this post.

OK if you are reading past this point it is assumed that you believe the bible.

God knows the absolute End Game for homosexuality, it's come and gone already with Sodom & Gomorrah.

Genesis 18

20 The LORD also said, "Sodom and Gomorrah have many complaints against them, and their sin is very serious. 21 I must go down and see whether these complaints are true. If not, I will know it......32 "Please don't be angry if I speak only one more time," Abraham said. "What if 10 are found there?" He answered, "I will not destroy it for the sake of the 10.""

So if only 10 good people were found in Sodom and Gomorrah God wouldn't destroy them. As it turned out there was only four which was then reduced to three.

The problem was a homosexual mindset that permeated the entire culture very aggressively.

Chapter 19 continues

1 The two angels came to Sodom in the evening as Lot was sitting in the gateway. When Lot saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed with his face touching the ground. 2 He said, "Please, gentlemen, why don't you come to my home and spend the night? You can wash your feet there. Then early tomorrow morning you can continue your journey....4 Before they had gone to bed, all the young and old male citizens of Sodom surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to stay with you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." 6 Then Lot went outside and shut the door behind him. 7 "Please, my friends, don't be so wicked," "

Another bible translation in verse 4 says

4 Before they could lie down, the men of the city, the men of Sod´om, surrounded the house, from boy to old man, all the people in one mob.

That is the end game in the great morality slide males raping other males, and if you read the account they had absolutely no interest in his virgin daughters.

God has already been there with the human race, he has seen what this mindset leads to. And he will never allow it to continue indefinitely.

This is the word of God, It is what it is.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

"The sun was rising as Lot reached the village. Then the LORD rained down fire and burning sulfur from the heavens on Sodom and Gomorrah. He utterly destroyed them, along with the other cities and villages of the plain, eliminating all life—people, plants, and animals alike . . . Afterward Lot left Zoar because he was afraid of the people there, and he went to live in a cave in the mountains with his two daughters.

"One day the older daughter said to her sister, "There isn't a man anywhere in this entire area for us to marry. And our father will soon be too old to have children. Come, let’s get him drunk with wine, and then we will sleep with him. That way we will preserve our family line through our father." So that night they got him drunk, and the older daughter went in and slept with her father. He was unaware of her lying down or getting up again.
"The next morning the older daughter said to her younger sister, "I slept with our father last night. Let’s get him drunk with wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him. That way our family line will be preserved." So that night they got him drunk again, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. As before, he was unaware of her lying down or getting up again. So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father." (Genesis 19:23-25, 30-36 , NLT)

But Lot having sex with his daughters was a-okay huh? What are the implications here, my friend?

At least they had a choice to be incestuous. Strange how God seemed fine with that.

Homosexuality is not a mindset. It is a sexuality. It actually has the word right within it. Its not Homocentric.

Does the scripture state God is One ?
Would God not forgive himself ?
If a part of God doesn't want to forgive himself,
does it mean he chooses not to be one ?

So does god judge ? Which God ? A One or a divided one ?

Who are we ? which choice ? curse or blessing
(the law : love god, he is one, love all (by growth),
or do the symbol-law, where man actually as symbol
means spirit and woman means created)


[edit on 17-10-2009 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


raping men is not homosexuality, it is theft of freedom.

men that like men are guilty of 'taste', taste is not a sin, it is a tool.
When they act out their taste, without stealing freedom, where is sin ?
is running in the park sin ?

stealing from your bigger self, in the mindset that god is one,
means choosing against your own freedom which you choose
not to belief as true.



[edit on 17-10-2009 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by SantaClaus


This is a mindset specifically of the Sodomites who were aggressive homosexuals which was part of their culture, and it wasn't just a few of them, it was all of them, in case you never caught it the first time.

Before they had gone to bed, all the young and old male citizens of Sodom surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to stay with you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

It's not normal or natural for a mob of boys and men to want to rape new male strangers that just came into town, and it was a sick and a demented mindset. Anybody who thinks that is normal needs serious help.

I know the idea with accepted homosexuality is as long as you don't hurt anybody else, which these men clearly intended to do. So it is in a way different, most homosexuals live in a civilized manner today. However if society and civilization breaks down this where the mindset progress's to.

And as for Lot having sex with his daughters, God never said it was ok or good, the matter was just reported in the bible, without a moral comment. Later on when the Mosaic Law was out such action would be cause for a stoning, so we understand God's thinking on the matter. But Lot was not yet under the Mosaic Law. Besides his daughters set him up for that by getting him so wasted, that he didn't have his full faculties together. They basically planned to have sex with their dad, to get pregnant, not for pure carnal pleasure. Still isn't right or justified, but obviously God let those two acts slide, at that time.

Here is the account

Genesis 19: 30-38

Lot and His Daughters

30 Afterward Lot left Zoar because he was afraid of the people there, and he went to live in a cave in the mountains with his two daughters.
31 One day the older daughter said to her sister, “There are no men left anywhere in this entire area, so we can’t get married like everyone else. And our father will soon be too old to have children.
32 Come, let’s get him drunk with wine, and then we will have sex with him. That way we will preserve our family line through our father.”
33 So that night they got him drunk with wine, and the older daughter went in and had intercourse with her father. He was unaware of her lying down or getting up again.
34 The next morning the older daughter said to her younger sister, “I had sex with our father last night. Let’s get him drunk with wine again tonight, and you go in and have sex with him. That way we will preserve our family line through our father.”
35 So that night they got him drunk with wine again, and the younger daughter went in and had intercourse with him. As before, he was unaware of her lying down or getting up again.
36 As a result, both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their own father.
37 When the older daughter gave birth to a son, she named him Moab. He became the ancestor of the nation now known as the Moabites.
38 When the younger daughter gave birth to a son, she named him Ben-ammi. He became the ancestor of the nation now known as the Ammonites.

EDIT

raping men is not homosexuality

Really???
Or were you thinking it's women we were talking about doing this?
I doubt it, in which case your synaptic connections have failed you on this post.


[edit on 17-10-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

you are mixing issues from the bible...

sodomy is not homosexuality. When the world goes bad, it's better to have sex in agreement (while) to release, then to release your anger by the theft of freedom, what you say is subjective.

strange how people rather search to condemn,
then to plead to god for salvation for all...

why is that ?

don't judge before you understand. that is the real message of the bible.
remember the men of sodom were destined to act how they acted if the bible is true from god. Destined means God made them do it. Like the Pharao in egypt, god decided. You don't understand righteoussness yet, so be carefull with your judgements, that is what the bible teaches by it's many openings for misinterpreation, the bible is made as a choice book, you choose what you read in it to build judgements on. But the law doesn't change, god is one, love god. life is one, love life, which is impossible except by growth towards it, which is forgiving God in growth.


[edit on 18-10-2009 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds

sodomy is not homosexuality.

Again really, that's not how the dictionary defines it.

sod⋅om⋅y - copulation with a member of the same sex.

??????

i meant sodomy as in what happened in sodom,
i'm not native english speaking.
but i 'm sure i can find other explinations in other dictionnaries.

if a dictionarry makes you feel safe and secure in your judgements,
then i did my share here.

reply to post by slymattb


here's the point though: if you buy into the god created everything theory, why not just leave out the part of humans and animals that even makes homosexuality an option? plain and simple.

man made homosexuality wrong. whoever said that earlier is dead on.

blue jay...i think you have the message of sodom and gomora all wrong. they were not only sexing up dudes, they were doing all sorts of crazy stuff. wanting to rape the angels was just the straw that broke the camels back. plus...that story kinda takes away from the omnipotence of god don't you think? god needed to send angels to make sure they really were..what about the part that knows when we are sleeping an knows when we're awake..you know...the fear aspect? kinda looks like he baited them(i know that is a bit off topic..but just popped in my head)

here's the reason i posted this question: i went to a catholic highschool. there was one teacher who was definitely gay. he was flamboyant, him and his gay friends were at the football games every week supporting the team, and to the students he was close to, he admitted it. he even helped council students who came forward and said they were struggling with maybe being gay, and gave them his prospective and showed them it wouldn't be a bad thing. i asked him one day what he thought of the church that he was a part of, that he volunteered in regularly, that he served, what he thought of the church as awhole not accepting him. he said he basically didn't give a damn bc he was going to be him regardless, and that he had settled things with god and didnt have any fear of that.

there were also 2 other teachers who were widely suspected of being gay, both left the seminary to become teachers, and one i found out recently went back and finished. and again, these were stand up citizens, stand up people, stand up teachers.

im not to sure why i shared those last two paragraphs...probably because hearing people talk about homosexuals like its a terrible thing and god smites them and such, it really gets my goat..or it would if i had a goat. (ha)

i've fully separated myself from the catholic church on the basis that their love everybody, except if you go against us mentality. the rejection of homosexuality was the for me the final straw.

but back to the point..i still haven't gotten a straight answer...yea someone said ask god,but we're not on speaking terms. and even if we were, i'm sure a just and loving god would go "these people who say that's a bad thing misinterpreted my message" when i picture a god figure, i picture a sad sad old man shaking his head at us and how we carry out hate and anger in his name. another reason im done with religion.

i'm still waiting for a real answer from someone who believes this.

reply to post by iamsupermanv2


my answer: homosexuals are born with that orientation.
How do I know?
Well, I have a nephew who is my age, I grew up with him. It was obvious at a very young age that he was 'different'. By the time he was 12 we all expected him to become a homosexual, you could just tell. It took him several more years to 'come out', although everyone already knew

Another one was a boy who lived down our street when I was a child, my sister used to play with him. When he was about 10 years old he used to say that he felt as a girl and got the wrong body.

Children don't say things like that unless they really feel it.

reply to post by GypsK


i agree, but that wasn't the question, the question is why does the church (my thinking catholic church, but it really applies with and form of christianity, maybe with judiasm and islam, but i'm not familiar with those) ostracize homosexuality, under the guise that a loving and just god says it's wrong.

because they are human, which implies 2 things if a god exsist,
there is choice in growth or ignorance, but not in which thoughts and beliefs you grow...
you can choose to lessen blindness, but you don't fully decide the scope of it yet..

this is from a state that god exsist...

then from a human perspective,

salvation, people put their hope for salvation on a book that is not clear,
because for that you have to choose, which they ignore as possibility in the bible,
when both bible as quran makes clear that by faith you choose your way,
and the bible gives you the both options to grow...to use good or to abuse.
(curse and blessing, the whole torah is build around choice)

because they ignore choice as integrated in their holy book,
they focus on their salvation, declare they know god they do not understand,
by own interpretations as righteouss, meaning they declare themselves
to know the 'god that is one' as divided.

Declaring words above the right interpretation which is god himself as one,
all which is idolatry, as all humans are guilty of this, symbols above truth it means.

real prophets plead to god for the lives of all the others,
a part of them really do, but they do not see god as one,
they see baal. When god exsist, even that is partly in the planning,
and it is made for a reason, and to avoid people hiding behind each other.

Salvation based on taking away freedom of others, means where the absolute is,
that god is not free. Problem is in god only god is free, so theft is unavoidable
from a human perspective, the only way out is growing towards one,
and it means forgiving god as one, to forgive god care will make you judge first (the devil as accuser) so you can choose afterwards to forgive...ignorance avoids the mistakes of care and growth and does not even take the time to see the judgements they feel or release the judgements they hold to keep their safety in.

That's why the church can not simply release their previous beliefssytems and interpretations, it takes both strength and allowance of god to release lies and honor.

Care makes mistakes, ignorance doesn't.

[edit on 18-10-2009 by pasttheclouds]

another flaw in the religions, why would god care what a man sexuality is?
there are all kinda BDSM sickos,but whats wrong with that? different people get turn on from different stuff,pleasure is awesome,and if pleasure is bad,then im not believing in this god,im believing in MY version of the REAL god

Raping men is not necessarily homosexual.

Rape is sociopathic in nature. For people like us, it is inconceivable that someone could force a sexual act without it being innately sexual, because we don't have the mental illness. No, rape of any gender, or species for that matter is about power. Again, lack of any feeling of doing something wrong, ala sociopathy.

Also, sodomy, in terms of broad definition is any sexual act done in what would be construed as unnatural, not always necessarily homosexual sex.

I understand where you come from, Bluejay, but you rely too heavily on semantics to get your point across. It is not so black and white. Unless of course you are willing to base every single belief you have on a book written by mankind. In that case, there is no room for debating at all, as objectivity is lost on you.

Romans 1:26

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error

And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

This particular passage addresses clearly the issue and its consequence and to those that give approval and support.

We are called to Love one another, but we do not have to love everything that another does.

Peace


[edit on 18-10-2009 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by iamsupermanv2


“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all”

James 2:10

God sees all sins the same, falling short of His righteousness, one man may be a homosexual, the next man a liar, the next man a thief, a SINNER is a SINNER.

That is a very important verse, we ALL sin, we ALL deserve hell for our sins, but Jesus paid the price for our sins we could not afford to pay ourselves. His righteousness is imputed upon those who trust in Him alone for their salvation.

The Word says homosexuality is a sin, yes it does, however it says a great number of things are likewise sins, what TRULY matters is if we have Jesus Christ as payment for those sins. His shed blood to wash away our transgressions of God's law.

A Christian should never judge another man, for when he does he immediately condemns himself. The homosexual needs the EXACT same savior as the liar does, as the thief does et cetra.

reply to post by iamsupermanv2


I have a negative bias towards gay men for a very valid reason:

-Women/group of women very rarely have referred to me in a sexual manner publicly. However, gays in groups tend to do it with much higher chances. It is very annoying.

-In crowded places or crowded public transportations, again, it's extremely rare for a woman to attempt to touch or smell me. For gays the chances are much higher.

-The above facts I've observed myself in very similar patterns (sexual aggressiveness) in electronic messages and phone.


So obviously, whenever I see or perceive a gay male stranger, I will try to distance myself from him as far as I can. I simply don't like being touched or smelled in a malicious way especially by another male. And I won't take those chances!