God's Curse on America

reply to post by Wertdagf

Now is the time to lose the bad parts of religion. Which is the end of religion

There is no good whatsoever to be found in religion? Methinks you need to take a closer look.

Are you capable of letting them go? Are you willing to live in a society the realizes that there is no god, because... there is no god.

That, of course, is your opinion. You are certainly welcome to it. I don't share it, but that's neither here nor there.

You are purposley NOT seeing the brick wall we are about to run head first into.

What wall is it that I'm not seeing? That people use religion to fuel their ambitions? And? People use all sorts of things to fuel ambitions, even *gasp* hatred of religion/or professed non-belief.

These religious people are and always have been the ones behind the wheel. Your sitting their praising the collective intent of stupid people in large numbers.

No, I'm praising people who bring, through their beliefs, light into our world through good works, be those works art, literature, science, helping their fellow human. Acknowledging those good works is not denying the very real harm that others have done in the name of that same God. It's merely pointing out that there is a flip side to the coin.

In an aside, FYI, I'm neither Christian, nor for that matter Muslim. I am, for lack of a better term, a deist. I have little use for most organized religion, they are, IMHO, more trouble than I feel like dealing with. But neither do I deny that much good is done, as well.

Originally posted by heliosprime
Taking God from schools.

God was never supposed to be in government run schools, seperation of church and state, do you understand that?

Originally posted by heliosprime
Open acceptance of gay marriage.

Once again a sepeation of church and state. Only the Bible stops such unions and for it to dictate your laws would undermine your constitution.

Originally posted by heliosprime
Setting small creatures above man with "environmental protection laws" such as cutting off water in california.

This comes down to stupid decisions by government, people who don't understand ecology.

Originally posted by heliosprime
Mass abortion

Once again this is based upon your Bible and once again the seperation of church and state is clear! Why is it that i, as a foreigner am able to understand your constitution and even the founding fathers words better than you are able to?

Originally posted by heliosprime
The complete destruction of financial sector....

This is a worldwide phenomenon and i fail to see how it is a curse on america only.

Originally posted by heliosprime
The massive corruption from acorn and seiu, and congress.

This is human nature, it has gone on from the dawn of time and has nothing to do with god.

Originally posted by heliosprime
And now enslavement to the "state" through healthcare.

You just utterly debased every single post you will ever make. Here in the UK we have socialised healthcare and yet we're not enslaved. We have had this healthcare since the late 1940's. Our life expectancy is beyond yours and we spend LESS than america per capita on healthcare.

Quite simply your points are steeped in ignorance and religious paranoia.

America is facing deep moral corruption, but the rot started long before Obama. I'd say it set in in earnest in the late 1960s with the permissiveness of the hippies. Following this, millions of people then had kids they didn't raise properly, and the problem got worse.

I also blame the media, which has shattered attention spans and encouraged people to wallow in depravaity, violence, perversions, and materialism.

I have nothing against some prayer in schools, the pledge of allegience saying "under God," or "in God we trust" on currency, etc. To me, these are cultural traditions more than purely religious symbols per se. Those who get worked up about such details (whether pro- or anti-) are chasing shadows.

The real problems go much deeper and are society-wide. Ite a bit like Roman decadence...it can't really be pinned on one single individual or a series of minor and specific details.

Originally posted by silent thunder
I also blame the media, which has shattered attention spans and encouraged people to wallow in depravaity, violence, perversions, and materialism.

All of those things are subjective. What you consider depravity others see as normal, the same for violence, perversions and matierialism. In fact it could easily be stated that many of the things you find normal fit into those categories. I mean you're using a computer, isn't that materialistic? Look as long as someone doesn't hurt another person then they can do whatever they like behind closed doors, including "depravity". It hurts no one else. The moment it does hurt someone they get arrested.

Originally posted by silent thunder
I have nothing against some prayer in schools, the pledge of allegience saying "under God," or "in God we trust" on currency, etc. To me, these are cultural traditions more than purely religious symbols per se. Those who get worked up about such details (whether pro- or anti-) are chasing shadows.

Do you not remember the whole seperation of church and state? Why are you not willing to uphold this? Those words of god were never in the original documents, they were added a long time later! How is it that i know your history, as a foreigner, better than you do?

Originally posted by silent thunder
The real problems go much deeper and are society-wide. Ite a bit like Roman decadence...it can't really be pinned on one single individual or a series of minor and specific details.

Actually i can pin it down to a simple thing. Parents being to scared to allow their children outside because the media scared them into thinking that danger was around every corner. This lead to children sitting around, doing sod all, eventually turning to video games full time out of boredom along with alcohol at increasingly younger ages. But not sensible alcohol use, serious binge drinkging at at a young age.

All of this mollycoddling lead to children wanting to rebel, even more than past generations and so they went into various areas, like drugs. Whereas drugs were a minor thing before, something to be tried and forgotten they now became ways of life.

The following generation of parents were losers who had children and didn't know how to handle them. Instead of being parents they became their childrens friends, telling them that they could do anything, be famous, be rich, be succesful without any real work.

Now we have a society of kids who think they deserve respect just for being alive and if anyone disagrees then they need a good kicking. They think they deserve to be famous, and rich and have everything they want without ever having to do any real hard work.

That is where everything has gone wrong.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
Satan, using mankind, has totally mucked up the moral fibers of the people, and even has them blaming God for it. ....

Same thing with satan - he tries to make people believe that it's God vs this god or that god or this belief or that belief.....

Make no mistake, ATS'ers, God is a loving God but He is also a just God - reserving His wrath for those of us that don't play by the rules - ....

Yet, all people want to cry is that He is an evil God - why?....

Maybe people want to cry he is an evil god because the Bible says so:
Proverbs 16:4 The Lord hath made all these things for himself: yea, even the wicked, for the day of evil.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people be not afraid? Is there evil and the Lord hath not done it?

Lamentations 3:38 Out of the mouth most High proceedeth not good and evil?

It's a bit hard to convince people of a loving god if they have actually READ the Bible.

America's greed cursed America. Nowhere from the subatomic level to the entire planet can you get something for nothing. This is the law of nature. It doesn't matter if you are losing electrons, drinking all night, over breeding, polluting, or writing mortgages for people that you know can't afford them, eventually it's going to be pay back time.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
reply to post by Witness2008

 

I.e. Sex outside of marriage - who doesn't have sex before marriage, if we marry at all - it's "accepted" now by society.
But in God's eyes, it is not accepted.
Mankind didn't like that so he started dissing God and either creating another god to believe in, or blatantly damning Him straight up.

Homosexuality - in society today, it's becoming widely accepted. But in God's eyes, it is not.

What did mankind do - he wrote a new "bible" - the Gay/Lesbian "bible"

But God's law on homosexuality have never changed.

But society has made it 'cool' and 'acceptable' and are now passing laws to make it a crime to not accept it as "normal".

If you were God, and had created a universe and your creation started breaking all of your laws and defiling you and mocking you - would you not finally step in and say "enough"?

I would.

I would have done it fifty years ago.

God clearly has more patience with mankind than I.

[edit on 17-10-2009 by nomorecruelty]

yup
It's all because not enough menstruating women are sleeping in the barn.
Either that or too many folks wearing clothes made of two different fabrics.

Next to the mockery there is a real question here: The two above are rules from the bible. How do you know he is more upset about sex before marriage (not to mention that the churches position on extramaritial sex for their priests has been all over the place in the last 2000 years (It actually caused the first major split in the church)) than about the low number of menstruating women sleeping in barns?

you know, a lot of these rules did make sense at one time. I have a theory on the barn thing: It's warmer in there (Body heat from the animals). It could help a little with cramps and such.

what do u mean set above real americans? like real patriots dont blaime him for whats happening to america?

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
All of those things are subjective. What you consider depravity others see as normal, the same for violence, perversions and matierialism. In fact it could easily be stated that many of the things you find normal fit into those categories. I mean you're using a computer, isn't that materialistic?

Its all a matter of balance. Regarding materialism, there is no need for people to wander around as barefoot saints (although I respect anyone who can). On the other hand, there is no need for people to have three-car garages and enormous houses full of junk they never use bought on pure credit.

Other forms of depravity are, in my opinion, somewhat subjective. There will always be room for debate and gray areas. But a society cannot hold together and function properly if everyone is living extreme, pleasure-centric, think-for-today, selfish lives.

Originally posted by silent thunder
Do you not remember the whole seperation of church and state? Why are you not willing to uphold this? Those words of god were never in the original documents, they were added a long time later! How is it that i know your history, as a foreigner, better than you do?

I do uphold seperation of church and state, but I consider the things I mentioned in my post to be details that are not worth fighting over. I am aware that many words about "God" were added later, but so what? They can still be traditions even if they didn't originate at the beginning. The British built Stonehenge and, thousands of years later, started saying "God save the King/Queen." These things are both traditions, and yet they started at different times.

And I find your assumption that you "know my own history as a foreginer better than I do" to be amazingly arrogant, based on what is written above. Perhaps you do, perhaps you don't. But does the last sentence in my previous paragraph imply I know more about British history than somebody living in the UK?

Originally posted by silent thunder
Its all a matter of balance. Regarding materialism, there is no need for people to wander around as barefoot saints (although I respect anyone who can). On the other hand, there is no need for people to have three-car garages and enormous houses full of junk they never use bought on pure credit.

Well i can agree here. No one needs those things but they enjoy them and that is a part of capitalism, if we start saying no to that then we will slip into the communist ideals. I thinka balance needs to be struck where people are encouraged to see the benefits of helping others. That however must be voluntary.

Originally posted by silent thunder
Other forms of depravity are, in my opinion, somewhat subjective. There will always be room for debate and gray areas. But a society cannot hold together and function properly if everyone is living extreme, pleasure-centric, think-for-today, selfish lives.

It is not somewhat subjective. It is all subjective. As long as you don't harm someone, without their permission and within legal doctrines then just stay out of it. If someone wants to pierce their back in 30 places and hang from the ceiling on a set of wires for the sexual pleasure of themselvesor their partners then all power to them. I know a lovely goth couple who have really respectful, decent children so your idea of their lives not holding up doesn't make sense. It comes down to parenting, if they set the limits properly and hold to them.

Originally posted by silent thunder
I do uphold seperation of church and state, but I consider the things I mentioned in my post to be details that are not worth fighting over. I am aware that many words about "God" were added later, but so what? They can still be traditions even if they didn't originate at the beginning. The British built Stonehenge and, thousands of years later, started saying "God save the King/Queen." These things are both traditions, and yet they started at different times.

We British did not separate church and state, the Queen is the head of the church and that is why the word god appears in our language. It is one of the key reasons that the founding fathers stopped using it and yet you are quite happy to continue something that your forefathers fought against! You say you know about the seperation of church and state and yet you support the application of god in schools and other documents. You're an absolute hypocrite.

The way it should work is that no god is forced upon anyone but if people want to include it then they can, in their own private thoughts. That is how your country was originally founded and once again i'm rather sad i know more about it than you do and hold to it more rigidly than you do.

Originally posted by silent thunder
And I find your assumption that you "know my own history as a foreginer better than I do" to be amazingly arrogant, based on what is written above. Perhaps you do, perhaps you don't. But does the last sentence in my previous paragraph imply I know more about British history than somebody living in the UK?

Simple fact, i hold to your constitution more than you do, i hold to it in the truest sense, i hold to it as the founding fathes meant it. I hodl to it because i believe it to be one of the msot fine documents ever published for the cooperation of a people and if the USA stil stuck to it today then i would move to that country in a matter of moments.

reply to post by heliosprime


Oh for goodness sake, twenty verses of terror out of a book fantasy when will humans ever grow up.

The scariest part of the bibles is these grotesque books are handed out to children, here the be monsters.

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by nomorecruelty

 

No ones blaming God for anything. Least of all me. My belief is that there is no one true way to enlightenment, or the Truth, whatever you want to call it.

I've never been real sure man is capable of understanding God's Will, or God's Word. To truly understand God, we must be God...and that we are not.

So prophecy, especially so vague a one as the OP quoted, is essentially meaningless. Save in retrospect.

That is exactly what satan wants people to believe - that there are other ways to God, and Heaven. He uses different tactics but leading people to believe there are other gods/choices is being perpetrated on us. I.e. Oprah's new age/many gods/ many ways theory.

It isn't our place to "truly understand" God - He allows us limited knowledge of Him for a reason. Mankind is already too big for his britches, per say - full of pride and vanity. And sin. The Bible warns us against being so puffed up with arrogance and pride yet man still doesn't "get it".

Understand that as humans we don't "have to" understand God in order to accept Him. In our human minds we have a very limited understanding, compared to God's, of everything.

Re prophecy being "meaningless", I'm not sure how hundreds of already fulfilled prophecies can be categorized as such. But if that's what you believe, that's what you believe.

You can read of just some fulfilled prophecies here - there are only sixty listed but there are other websites you can find many others.

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
If you were God, and had created a universe and your creation started breaking all of your laws and defiling you and mocking you - would you not finally step in and say "enough"?

All those things you speak of are man made laws.

Not true. The Bible is God's laws.

Not sure where you get that they are manmade?

The Bible has been proved and proved and proved - and still we, as humans,
scoff at it.

No need to wonder why God is revealing more and more of Himself as the days go by. When the Lord's Day arrives, none of us will wonder any longer.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by heliosprime
Taking God from schools.

God was never supposed to be in government run schools, seperation of church and state, do you understand that?

Originally posted by heliosprime
Open acceptance of gay marriage.

Once again a sepeation of church and state. Only the Bible stops such unions and for it to dictate your laws would undermine your constitution.

Originally posted by heliosprime
Setting small creatures above man with "environmental protection laws" such as cutting off water in california.

This comes down to stupid decisions by government, people who don't understand ecology.

Originally posted by heliosprime
Mass abortion

Once again this is based upon your Bible and once again the seperation of church and state is clear! Why is it that i, as a foreigner am able to understand your constitution and even the founding fathers words better than you are able to?

Originally posted by heliosprime
The complete destruction of financial sector....

This is a worldwide phenomenon and i fail to see how it is a curse on america only.

Originally posted by heliosprime
The massive corruption from acorn and seiu, and congress.

This is human nature, it has gone on from the dawn of time and has nothing to do with god.

Originally posted by heliosprime
And now enslavement to the "state" through healthcare.

You just utterly debased every single post you will ever make. Here in the UK we have socialised healthcare and yet we're not enslaved. We have had this healthcare since the late 1940's. Our life expectancy is beyond yours and we spend LESS than america per capita on healthcare.

Quite simply your points are steeped in ignorance and religious paranoia.

Save yourself some embarrassment and actually read The Constitution - once you do that, then come back here and provide us with the exact quotes to back up your theory of 'separation of church and state'.

We'll wait.

reply to post by debunky


Non believers never fail to use the same old tired defense of tossing in the Book of Leviticus when trying to debunk the Bible. Sigh.

There were numerous "laws" of the ancient days that no longer apply to mankind today. What part of that is so difficult to understand.

What we need to understand is that God has absolutely nothing to do with "religion". But in mankind's continual effort to avoid accountability from God, he has intentionally tried to toss God into the "religion" category - when it has been mankind who created all of the different religions in the world today.

Give credit where credit is due - satan is the one to blame by using man, again, to sway more and more people away from God.

ATS is mixed with people that hate ignorance and pride themselves on not following the public masses. But yet on this topic, it appears the sheep are steady heading to slaughter.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
Save yourself some embarrassment and actually read The Constitution - once you do that, then come back here and provide us with the exact quotes to back up your theory of 'separation of church and state'.

We'll wait.

en.wikipedia.org...

The establishment clause has generally been interpreted to prohibit 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference of one religion over another or the support of a religious idea with no identifiable secular purpose. The first approach is called the "separationist" or "no aid" interpretation, while the second approach is called the "non-preferentialist" or "accommodationist" interpretation. The accommodationist interpretation prohibits Congress from preferring one religion over another, but does not prohibit the government's entry into religious domain to make accommodations in order to achieve the purposes of the Free Exercise Clause.

There you go, a clear speration of church and state. If you want to get into it in depth i am happy to. The US was based upon this seperation of church and state because the British empire saw the monarcy as appointed by god.

Please review your history.

As i have now quoted where the US constitution states a seperation of church and state and the very simple fact that this is public knowledge i ask you to provide evidence to the contrary.

[edit on 17-10-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

I don't like Obama, in fact, I don't like any politician, but even I can see the OP is using the bible to bash Obama.

Funny thing is, Obama isn't responsible for most of these things. They were instituted long before he ever came to office. You can't blame Obama for the stuff that Reagan, Clinton, or the Bush dynasty created or fostered.

Also, the Bible is only a book. It has no relevance in the 21st Century, any more than Koran, or Mahabharata, or any other scripture. People have been blaming God for bad news ever since they believed in a God. Most of it is our own doing, not God's. Much of it is caused by mindlessly following texts in holy books without using our God-given brains to figure out that those texts are obsolete.

"Be fruitful and multiply" is VERY BAD ADVICE, in a world where we already have more people than we can sustain. It will lead to widespread famines, plagues, and wars, all caused not by God's curse, but by overpopulation.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
Save yourself some embarrassment and actually read The Constitution - once you do that, then come back here and provide us with the exact quotes to back up your theory of 'separation of church and state'.

We'll wait.

en.wikipedia.org...

The establishment clause has generally been interpreted to prohibit 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference of one religion over another or the support of a religious idea with no identifiable secular purpose. The first approach is called the "separationist" or "no aid" interpretation, while the second approach is called the "non-preferentialist" or "accommodationist" interpretation. The accommodationist interpretation prohibits Congress from preferring one religion over another, but does not prohibit the government's entry into religious domain to make accommodations in order to achieve the purposes of the Free Exercise Clause.

There you go, a clear speration of church and state. If you want to get into it in depth i am happy to. The US was based upon this seperation of church and state because the British empire saw the monarcy as appointed by god.

Please review your history.

As i have now quoted where the US constitution states a seperation of church and state and the very simple fact that this is public knowledge i ask you to provide evidence to the contrary.

[edit on 17-10-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

As I previously said, there is no mention of 'separation of church and state'. That part of the Constitution started being used, by non believers, as a tool to start removing God from our schools and other government - which it was never designed to do.

You can read about the origin here

Originally posted by EMPIRE
I don't like Obama, in fact, I don't like any politician, but even I can see the OP is using the bible to bash Obama.

The OP said, about barry soetoro:

"Once great the United States is being destroyed not "By" obama but through obama".


Even I can see that the OP hasn't made the first "bashing" remark about barry.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty

Originally posted by EMPIRE
I don't like Obama, in fact, I don't like any politician, but even I can see the OP is using the bible to bash Obama.

The OP said, about barry soetoro:

"Once great the United States is being destroyed not "By" obama but through obama".


Even I can see that the OP hasn't made the first "bashing" remark about barry.

Selective quoting on your part? Why don't you quote some of his other statements:

He is the alien that has been set "above" real americans.

Moreover, why didn't he mention that the US was being destroyed decades before Obama even stepped in office? Why did he fail to mention that US was also being destroyed by Carter, Bush (both of them), Clinton, and everyone else that came before him?

Again, veiled Obama bashing and nothing more.



[edit on 17-10-2009 by EMPIRE]